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AuthorTopic: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"  (Read 18923 times)

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Offline SACC-guy

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #300 on: September 26, 2016, 07:17:17 PM »
Quote from: AmigaOldskooler;814430
That would be cool. :) I'm really hoping for some news on AmiWest concerning this computer.
We saw this "1222" at AmiWest2015 running linux.
Alex made a very nice presentation.
I hope to see and learn more this year!
 

Offline duga

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #301 on: October 09, 2016, 09:00:22 PM »
Quote from: duga;814027
£300 + 20% UK VAT = £360. 430 Euro without memory/gfx.


Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;814033
I hope nobody accidentally sees these posts and thinks these are in any way realistic or actual costs for this hardware. :(


Ahem. :rtfm:
 

Offline psxphill

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #302 on: October 09, 2016, 09:42:32 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;814374
?!
The processor in the XBOX360 was definitely easier to program for than the PS3's weird Cell BE layout with it satellite spes.


Yeah, xbox 360 was just bog standard like the ST. While Amiga had copper and blitter that needed special coding skills

Quote from: Iggy;814374
I really don't see your comparison, and besides the PS3 really needed more memory.


Amiga needed more memory too, although you could upgrade the ram a lot easier than a PS3.
 

Offline Iggy

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #303 on: October 09, 2016, 10:10:27 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;815042
Yeah, xbox 360 was just bog standard like the ST. While Amiga had copper and blitter that needed special coding skills

Amiga needed more memory too, although you could upgrade the ram a lot easier than a PS3.

You can't add memory to the Cell BE, and it uses a very unusual type of memory.
 
 Further, later STs had blitters, and the ST cost a lot less than an Amiga.
 As far as coding skills, using hardware features is hardly a special skill.
 
 As far as the Xbox360 vs the PS3, both are 'bog standard' AND derived from related technology (which come to think of it, makes your ST vs Amiga comparison somewhat relevant).
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline psxphill

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #304 on: October 10, 2016, 09:30:35 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;815043
As far as coding skills, using hardware features is hardly a special skill.

I think there is plenty of evidence that disproves that.

Getting the most out of the Amiga and the PS3 is much harder than getting the most out of the ST and the 360.

Going back further to the c64 and spectrum, you saw the best spectrum games quite early on in the life of the computer and then it reached a peak. The benefit of time and sharing of knowledge has allowed people to create software that would have blown away c64 users in 1983.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 09:34:04 AM by psxphill »
 

Offline Iggy

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #305 on: October 10, 2016, 12:58:56 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;815071
I think there is plenty of evidence that disproves that.

Getting the most out of the Amiga and the PS3 is much harder than getting the most out of the ST and the 360.

Going back further to the c64 and spectrum, you saw the best spectrum games quite early on in the life of the computer and then it reached a peak. The benefit of time and sharing of knowledge has allowed people to create software that would have blown away c64 users in 1983.

With time, people always figure out new tricks to use hardware that produce innovative results.
 The fact is that the PS3 is just a pain in the ass to program, has limited memory, and in time it really hasn't produced that many creative uses of its weird hardware configuration.
 
 And the Amiga and C64 aren't that hard to code for by the standards of their day. In some ways their more advanced hardware makes some functions easier.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline psxphill

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #306 on: October 10, 2016, 04:51:46 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;815043
You can't add memory to the Cell BE, and it uses a very unusual type of memory.


Sounds a bit like chip memory then, which is also impossible to increase on the Amiga (unless you cheat and re-implement the chipset, which maybe someone will do for the ps3 in 20 years time).

Quote from: Iggy;815074
With time, people always figure out new tricks to use hardware that produce innovative results.


I don't see that happening on the Atari-ST or Spectrum as much as the C64 and to a less extent the Amiga though.

Quote from: Iggy;815074
The fact is that the PS3 is just a pain in the ass to program,


It's easy to program the PS3, it's hard to program it well. Which proves my point about specialist hardware being difficult to code for.

Quote from: Iggy;815074
has limited memory


All console hardware has limited memory. Fixed configuration systems has good and bad points.

Quote from: Iggy;815074
, and in time it really hasn't produced that many creative uses of its weird hardware configuration.


Games made better use of the SPE's over time, which I would class as creative.

Quote from: Iggy;815074
And the Amiga and C64 aren't that hard to code for by the standards of their day. In some ways their more advanced hardware makes some functions easier.


Getting up to 8 sprites on the screen is easier on the c64 than on the spectrum. But when you've learned how to do that on the spectrum, then ramping up to more than 8 sprites is a lot easier than on the c64.

Similar to how you can dump something on an SPE quite easily, but doing it well is hard.

Anyway, I think this is OT enough now.
 

Offline Iggy

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #307 on: October 10, 2016, 06:29:24 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;815081
Anyway, I think this is OT enough now.

Agreed. We've spent too much time on something that our opinions aren't that far apart on.
And besides, the thread topic is the A1222.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline magnetic

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #308 on: October 11, 2016, 11:30:42 PM »
I got to see the tabor board in person at amiwest and have to say its a really cool board. Mini its form factor is awesome and the price is going to be VERY good news for the community!
bPlan Pegasos2 G4@1ghz
Quad Boot:Reg. MorphOS | OS4.1 U4 |Ubuntu GNU-Linux | MacOS X

Amiga 2000 Rom Switcher w/ 3.1 + 1.3 | HardFrame SCSI | CBM Ram board| A Squared LIVE! 2000 | Vlab Motion | Firecracker 24 gfx

Commodore CDTV: 68010 | ECS | 9mb Ram | SCSI -TV | 3.9 Rom | Developer EPROMs
 

Offline psxphill

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #309 on: October 11, 2016, 11:36:04 PM »
Quote from: magnetic;815134
Mini its form factor is awesome and the price is going to be VERY good news for the community!


I wonder what would happen if people started cloning the boards. They are selling them at cost, so they shouldn't be upset. As long as users can buy a separate license for amigaos 4 of course.
 

Offline magnetic

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #310 on: October 11, 2016, 11:39:04 PM »
psxphil
thats not correct logic really. They have a sizable investment and we need to buy the boards from them not another provider.  we should reward them for putting a lot of money into this project with no expectation for profitability
bPlan Pegasos2 G4@1ghz
Quad Boot:Reg. MorphOS | OS4.1 U4 |Ubuntu GNU-Linux | MacOS X

Amiga 2000 Rom Switcher w/ 3.1 + 1.3 | HardFrame SCSI | CBM Ram board| A Squared LIVE! 2000 | Vlab Motion | Firecracker 24 gfx

Commodore CDTV: 68010 | ECS | 9mb Ram | SCSI -TV | 3.9 Rom | Developer EPROMs
 

Offline psxphill

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #311 on: October 12, 2016, 12:01:16 AM »
Quote from: magnetic;815138
psxphil
thats not correct logic really. They have a sizable investment and we need to buy the boards from them not another provider.  we should reward them for putting a lot of money into this project with no expectation for profitability


I was assuming a clone wouldn't be available immediately and they wouldn't have ordered more board than they could easily sell in six months.
 

Offline Iggy

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #312 on: October 12, 2016, 12:10:26 AM »
Quote from: psxphill;815140
I was assuming a clone wouldn't be available immediately and they wouldn't have ordered more board than they could easily sell in six months.

 Not nearly as easy a task as you make it sound.
 Those boards have several layers, and those layers/layouts are not known.
 You aren't going to be able to just 'clone' them.
 Its not like a plant where you can take cuttings. ;)
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline psxphill

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #313 on: October 12, 2016, 12:20:57 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;815142
Not nearly as easy a task as you make it sound.
 Those boards have several layers, and those layers/layouts are not known.
 You aren't going to be able to just 'clone' them.
 Its not like a plant where you can take cuttings. ;)


If you know the right people then multiple layers is not an issue. Or you can just find someone to bribe at the manufacturers.
 

Offline magnetic

Re: New ppc board by Acube/A-Eon: A1222 "Tabor"
« Reply #314 on: October 12, 2016, 12:22:08 AM »
I have to say this is rather absurd lol. cloning a board that just came out. do you realize how much money it would take for you just to do one prototype?
bPlan Pegasos2 G4@1ghz
Quad Boot:Reg. MorphOS | OS4.1 U4 |Ubuntu GNU-Linux | MacOS X

Amiga 2000 Rom Switcher w/ 3.1 + 1.3 | HardFrame SCSI | CBM Ram board| A Squared LIVE! 2000 | Vlab Motion | Firecracker 24 gfx

Commodore CDTV: 68010 | ECS | 9mb Ram | SCSI -TV | 3.9 Rom | Developer EPROMs