OS 3.9 installation issues

[dschallock]

First, thank you for helping me with this.
OldsmobileMike has already been helping me a ton with some private messages with advice, but I don't want to abuse his time either!

My System:
A3000 Super Buster 11.  GAL chips recently replaced fixed garbled graphics.
Battery has been replaced with coin cell upgrade.
3.1 Roms
OS 3.1 Installed
Warpengine 3040 with 32 megs of Ram installed.
2 megs of chip.  No zip ram on motherboard.
750 Meg Scsi hard drive attached to Warpdrive.device (the warpengine fast scsi II).
External Lacie CDROM Scsi attached externally to scsi.device (a3000 onboard scsi).
Currently I don't own a working internal floppy drive so I have an external Amiga floppy drive plugged into the external floppy port (DF2 on my system.  works good)
PicassoIV graphics card.
AD516 Sound card
Personal Animation Recorder with IDE hard drive attached.

The Goal:  3.9 installation with all the boing bags successfully installed!

The Method: I was planning on following OldsmobileMike's awesome videos on doing this install but I have already run into some hickups.

What I did:
1) I inserted the 3.9 CD and first thing attempted to make a emergency install disk.  Program returned successful creation message.
2) I try to boot with the emergency disk and I get a crash saying something about "setpatch" and string of numbers 00012020021 or something.
3) I make a backup of my entire Workbench partition to a folder on my Work partition.
4) I boot from the install disk of 3.1 and format the workbench partition.
5) I do a fresh install of of 3.1
6) I mount 3.1's CD0 with my appropriate scsi drive and unit number.
7) I insert the 3.9 install disk and run the installation "upgrade from 3.1 or blank partition".  When it finishes, I install the internet software from the CD as well.
I reboot and insert a CD I have burned from my PC with the latest Picasso96 software as well as the Boingbag1, boingbag2, and boingbag3/4 combo.  First thing I notice is that the files names on the CD are all truncated to names like boing~1.  I was hoping the 3.9 install was going to fix this filename shortening issue but apparently not.
*** I also notice at this reboot that Amidock is crashing on reboot and not loading, but I click suspend instead of reboot and I can still access the system***
9) I attempt to unarc the picasso drivers and I get errors for some of the files as corrupt. If I click past the error messages most of it decompresses fine but some of it definitely had a problem.
10) worried about this corruption above, I opt to use my original picasso96 install disk and install the software so I can run a larger RTG screen mode.  The software seems to install fine and I am on a larger screen mode.  Amidock is still crashing.
11) I attempt to unarc the first boingbag 1 archive which of course is listed as boing~1 or something shortened like that.  I run into the same issue getting system messages of some of the files being corrupted.  Pressing "ok" through the process what I am left with is enough to launch the boingbag1 installer but it asks me for the 3.9 cd to be inserted and as soon as I insert it the installer crashes and says there is something wrong with my install files (I'm sure its the corrupted files).

So, now I am not sure what to do.  I can't install 3.9 on a freshly formatted partition because the disk fails to make an emergency install disk crashing on setpatch.  Installing over a fresh 3.1 doesn't seem to be a good option either as I have amidock crashing right out the gate.  My CD Rom has been working flawlessly in the past when installing Amiga software (like photogenics for instance... I installed that last week and got no errors), but CD's that I burn on the PC with amiga files I need seem to all get their names messed up and files seem to be corrupted on all the archives I burn.  Not sure if this is related to the filename issue, or something else entirely.   I apologize for typing so much but I wanted to give as much information as possible.

Thank you again for any help you can offer to help me get through this OS upgrade.
-Dan

[Thomas]

I suppose that your WarpEngine needs a special version of 68040.library and most if not all of your crashes are caused by using the Commodore version of the library. Or none at all.

Actually I wonder what makes you think that OS 3.9 could run well from harddisk when it fails to run from floppy/CD. "Installation" of OS 3.9 does nothing else but copy files from CD to harddisk. The same files which failed to run before.

[dschallock]

Thomas, Thanks for the tip on the warp engine 68040 library, I will definitely check that.

In terms of the Hard disk install Vs. CD.  I never tried to boot from the CD and had that fail.  I tried to create an emergency boot floppy and that failed.  I didn't assume that meant that entire OS3.9 install CD was flawed, should I have?

[mechy]

First, thank you for helping me with this.
OldsmobileMike has already been helping me a ton with some private messages with advice, but I don't want to abuse his time either!

My System:
A3000 Super Buster 11.  GAL chips recently replaced fixed garbled graphics.
Battery has been replaced with coin cell upgrade.
3.1 Roms
OS 3.1 Installed
Warpengine 3040 with 32 megs of Ram installed.
2 megs of chip.  No zip ram on motherboard.
750 Meg Scsi hard drive attached to Warpdrive.device (the warpengine fast scsi II).
External Lacie CDROM Scsi attached externally to scsi.device (a3000 onboard scsi).
Currently I don't own a working internal floppy drive so I have an external Amiga floppy drive plugged into the external floppy port (DF2 on my system.  works good)
PicassoIV graphics card.
AD516 Sound card
Personal Animation Recorder with IDE hard drive attached.

The Goal:  3.9 installation with all the boing bags successfully installed!

The Method: I was planning on following OldsmobileMike's awesome videos on doing this install but I have already run into some hickups.

What I did:
1) I inserted the 3.9 CD and first thing attempted to make a emergency install disk.  Program returned successful creation message.
2) I try to boot with the emergency disk and I get a crash saying something about "setpatch" and string of numbers 00012020021 or something.
3) I make a backup of my entire Workbench partition to a folder on my Work partition.
4) I boot from the install disk of 3.1 and format the workbench partition.
5) I do a fresh install of of 3.1
6) I mount 3.1's CD0 with my appropriate scsi drive and unit number.
7) I insert the 3.9 install disk and run the installation "upgrade from 3.1 or blank partition".  When it finishes, I install the internet software from the CD as well.
I reboot and insert a CD I have burned from my PC with the latest Picasso96 software as well as the Boingbag1, boingbag2, and boingbag3/4 combo.  First thing I notice is that the files names on the CD are all truncated to names like boing~1.  I was hoping the 3.9 install was going to fix this filename shortening issue but apparently not.
*** I also notice at this reboot that Amidock is crashing on reboot and not loading, but I click suspend instead of reboot and I can still access the system***
9) I attempt to unarc the picasso drivers and I get errors for some of the files as corrupt. If I click past the error messages most of it decompresses fine but some of it definitely had a problem.
10) worried about this corruption above, I opt to use my original picasso96 install disk and install the software so I can run a larger RTG screen mode.  The software seems to install fine and I am on a larger screen mode.  Amidock is still crashing.
11) I attempt to unarc the first boingbag 1 archive which of course is listed as boing~1 or something shortened like that.  I run into the same issue getting system messages of some of the files being corrupted.  Pressing "ok" through the process what I am left with is enough to launch the boingbag1 installer but it asks me for the 3.9 cd to be inserted and as soon as I insert it the installer crashes and says there is something wrong with my install files (I'm sure its the corrupted files).

So, now I am not sure what to do.  I can't install 3.9 on a freshly formatted partition because the disk fails to make an emergency install disk crashing on setpatch.  Installing over a fresh 3.1 doesn't seem to be a good option either as I have amidock crashing right out the gate.  My CD Rom has been working flawlessly in the past when installing Amiga software (like photogenics for instance... I installed that last week and got no errors), but CD's that I burn on the PC with amiga files I need seem to all get their names messed up and files seem to be corrupted on all the archives I burn.  Not sure if this is related to the filename issue, or something else entirely.   I apologize for typing so much but I wanted to give as much information as possible.

Thank you again for any help you can offer to help me get through this OS upgrade.
-Dan

it's the old crappy 8+3 filename bs on pc. thats why its truncating the files. just copy the archives to the 3000 and rename them with .lha endings etc, then unarc them.
not sure why burning the archives to cd would have corrupted the archives though.

If you are burning os3.9 from a pc directly,it will corrupt the amiga file attributes i believe and cause havoc. i think you would have to burn the cd under a emulator or something or better yet buy a real os3.9 cd if you havent.

make sure the max transfer setting on the 3000 is set properly for the hd partitions.If its wrong larger archives may get corrupted when copied to the 3000.

Scsi termination and term power must be working/correct or you will have endless problems. Also double check warp engine jumpers.

to stop amidock from crashing, just remove it from wbstartup for now.

are you using a legit os3.9 cd or some junk you found on the net?
note that the initial install may be a tad flakey until at least boing bag 1 is installed, this is a known thing.

you might take a look at this:

http://www.gregdonner.org/os39faq/installtips.html

[dschallock]

Thanks for the great reply Mechy.  Couple of questions to your comments.

make sure the max transfer setting on the 3000 is set properly for the hd partitions.If its wrong larger archives may get corrupted when copied to the 3000.

Is the max transfer a value determined by the CDROM drive itself?  Once I know that value do I add that to the CD0 Tooltype?  I think it currently has ACTIVATE=1 DEVICE=SCSI.DEVICE UNIT=1

Scsi termination and term power must be working/correct or you will have endless problems. Also double check warp engine jumpers.

So I am working with 2 scsi controllers.  The WARPDRIVE.DEVICE which has 1 hard drive attached, which is partitioned into WORK and WORKBENCH, and SCSI.DEVICE which is the CDROM attached externally.  That CDROM has its own power supply, and scsi terminator attached.  I assume that's all I need and all should be good..... I assume.

to stop amidock from crashing, just remove it from wbstartup for now.

Ok, will do.

are you using a legit os3.9 cd or some junk you found on the net?
note that the initial install may be a tad flakey until at least boing bag 1 is installed, this is a known thing.

Absolutely.  I have real OS 31 disks, and 100% real OS 3.9 disk.

I was re-reading through my own process and one thing I think I should try again is to get a fresh solid 3.1 installation with the correct 040 library and the latest picasso96 software and then try to make my emergency disk from that.

2 unknown issues that are still freaking me out is:
1) Why was my emergency boot disk crashing because of SETPATCH?  What is the setpatch thing even about, I never understood it, I don't know what could be going wrong or how to fix that.
2) Why am I getting corrupted files off my CD?

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Is the max transfer a value determined by the CDROM drive itself?

MaxTransfer is for the hard drive.  Shouldn't have to change anything for the CD.

Check your 3.9 CD for scratches or errors?  You can't boot from the CD itself, need to boot from the recovery disk, but the old saying "garbage in, garbage out" - if it's copying damaged files from the CD it'll stop you right there.

And SetPatch does a lot of things, including enabling enhanced graphics modes, turning on processor caches, and loading various device drivers.  I did a quick google search to see if I could find a full doc for it but nothing was coming up, but suffice to say, you need it.  

...more later, busy at work today.  

[guest11527]

Is the max transfer a value determined by the CDROM drive itself?  Once I know that value do I add that to the CD0 Tooltype?  I think it currently has ACTIVATE=1 DEVICE=SCSI.DEVICE UNIT=1

No. MaxTransfer is not related to any particular drive or harddisk. It is a workaround for buggy *host adapters*, not for devices. Hence, you only need a MaxTransfer if the device driver is not implemented properly, independent of what it is connected to. Unfortunately, most device drivers are faulty in this sense... omniscsi is probably one of the few non-broken ones.  Hence, if you need one for your harddisk, and you have a CD connected to the very same host adapter, the CD drive needs exactly the same value because it sits on exactly the same host adapter.  

So I am working with 2 scsi controllers.  The WARPDRIVE.DEVICE which has 1 hard drive attached, which is partitioned into WORK and WORKBENCH, and SCSI.DEVICE which is the CDROM attached externally.  That CDROM has its own power supply, and scsi terminator attached.  I assume that's all I need and all should be good..... I assume.

That is all you need, but in that case CDROM and harddrive are on two distinct controllers with two distinct "maxtransfer" requirements. Anyhow, in this particular case, I doubt that this is the cause for the problem because none of the files on the workbench and installation disk are long enough to fall into the max-transfer problem.  As already suggested, the workbench.library from your 4000T installation disk should go into LIBS:, and this should be good enough to get a working workbench from the official 3.1 install disk. It won't overwrite a library it does not know, so the workbench.library will just stick there.    

2 unknown issues that are still freaking me out is:
1) Why was my emergency boot disk crashing because of SETPATCH?  What is the setpatch thing even about, I never understood it, I don't know what could be going wrong or how to fix that.

SetPatch fixes Os bugs, and amongst others, it loads the 68040.library for your system. This library has two specific purposes: First of all, the 68040 does not implement all documented 68K instructions, some FPU instructions are missing, and these missing instructions have to be supplied by software. This software (the Motorola FPSP - floating point support package) sits in the 68040.library. Second, the 68040.library also controls the MMU (the memory management unit), a function that lives for some 68040.libraries (as in "mine") in a separate library, the mmu.library. Now, this is the point where trouble begins because some (IMHO misdesigned) boards require a specific MMU setup without communicating this requirement properly to the operating system. Since the 68040.library (or the 68040.library via the mmu.library) is also responsible for programming the MMU, *some* specific boards require a *specific* 68040.library, and only the one from their specific vendor will work. Hence, if you use the original CBM 68040.library on a board that includes board components that do not behave according to the CBM specs, it will cause such a crash. And it is setpatch that crashes because setpatch loads this library.    

2) Why am I getting corrupted files off my CD?

[/QUOTE] How did you burn the CD? The original CD should be fine, unless it aged and lost its content. If you burned the CD on a PC, then the PC will use a slightly different format than that understood by the Amiga. The original data CD-ROM specification alllowed only 8+3 file names, which is of course too constraining. Amiga defined a custom extension very similar to that used by Unix that simply writes more letters. Microsoft defined another incompatible extension ("Joliet") that causes the average Amiga CDROM handler to only see the backwards compatible part of the filing system, and hence only 8+3 file names.

[dschallock]

UPDATE.

After watching all of Oldsmobilemike's videos on the install (thanks for making those by the way... super helpful), I restarted the process.  I hit a snag again, but it happened at a very specific moment and so I thought I would post it as an update.

1) I reformatted partition workbench
2) I reinstalled os 3.1
3) I installed picasso96 and warpengine 68040 library. Got the screen resolution set correctly.
4) mounted CD0 correctly.
5) created the emergency boot disk from 3.9 CD and it worked!  It boots.  Everything great so far!
6) I reboot via the emergency disk. (no problems still).
7) I format partition workbench again so I could install 3.9 on a totally blank partition.
I reboot via the emergency disk as before and this time BOOM crash SETPATCH.

So something happened right there at that step that threw something off kilter.  Any ideas?

Thanks!

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Hey buddy,

A few quick thoughts on burning CD's.  I use them all the time to transfer files to my A500 when I'm at home, since it doesn't have all the networking stuff I have in my 2000.  Normally I use a recent version of Nero but I just tested and confirm correct operation using the built-in CD burning tools in Windows 7 Pro and being able to read-back in Amiga OS 3.9.

I'd start by re-checking all your settings, you may need to also edit your CD0 mountlist, but the only thing I ever had to change in mine was the specific device and unit ID.  See attached screenshots, first three are from my PC, last two are of the identical files on my Amiga.  Burned using the standard Windows tools onto a generic Maxell CD-R disk that I had kicking around in a drawer.

ProTip: when you use Nero you can make your disk "unfinalized" so you can copy a few files onto it, and then add a few more later, and a few more later, etc.  I've got a couple CD's that I've used dozens of times to move many files from my PC to my Amiga.  

See screenshots:

Edit - disregard that it says "3.1" in screenshot #4.  MultiCX (which I use for editing part of my title bar) doesn't understand anything above that version.  On my A2000 it totally flakes and just says "OS version ?.?".  Haha.  But it is 3.9.  

[mechy]

UPDATE.

After watching all of Oldsmobilemike's videos on the install (thanks for making those by the way... super helpful), I restarted the process.  I hit a snag again, but it happened at a very specific moment and so I thought I would post it as an update.

1) I reformatted partition workbench
2) I reinstalled os 3.1
3) I installed picasso96 and warpengine 68040 library. Got the screen resolution set correctly.
4) mounted CD0 correctly.
5) created the emergency boot disk from 3.9 CD and it worked!  It boots.  Everything great so far!
6) I reboot via the emergency disk. (no problems still).
7) I format partition workbench again so I could install 3.9 on a totally blank partition.
I reboot via the emergency disk as before and this time BOOM crash SETPATCH.

So something happened right there at that step that threw something off kilter.  Any ideas?

Thanks!

Is the warpengine 68040.library on the emergency boot disk? Otherwise when you formatted the partition again, you lost it... just a guess.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I reboot via the emergency disk as before and this time BOOM crash SETPATCH.

Gah.  Just saw this.  Are you *sure* it's crashing at SetPatch?  Have you turned on the feedback so that it displays each line as it executes?

Check the version of 68040.library on the disk?

Also it couldn't hurt to ask, what version of SetPatch?  I believe the latest is 44.38 but that's installed in one of the BoingBags.  I "think" 3.9 initially comes with 44.13.  See the notes on the gregdonner webpage mentioned above for more info.  Maybe try manually extracting one of the later versions (either 44.16 or 44.38) and replacing the version that's on the disk?

Is it something wrong with mounting the partitions after you've prepped them in HDToolbox?  FFS, SFS, PFS, or something else?

Just throwing that out there, too many 16-hour work shifts in a row make my head foggy.  

[guest11527]

1) I reformatted partition workbench
2) I reinstalled os 3.1
3) I installed picasso96 and warpengine 68040 library. Got the screen resolution set correctly.
4) mounted CD0 correctly.
5) created the emergency boot disk from 3.9 CD and it worked!  It boots.  Everything great so far!
6) I reboot via the emergency disk. (no problems still).
7) I format partition workbench again so I could install 3.9 on a totally blank partition.
I reboot via the emergency disk as before and this time BOOM crash SETPATCH.

So something happened right there at that step that threw something off kilter.  Any ideas?

Thanks!

Yes. 3.9 is not supposed to be installed on a blank partition. Otherwise, you're again stuck with the wrong 68040.library. Install it on top of the already installed 3.1. And thank P5 for their custom hardware requiring a custom library.

[dschallock]

When I stopped using os 3.1's CD0 and installed the 3.9 CDROM software the CD started showing full file names which is great, but I can't seem to be able to properly extract any of the boingbags.  Each one says the file "AmigaOS-Update" is corrupt and fails CRC check or something like that.

Thanks for the screen shots Mike, I am going to try using Nero and burning boing bag 1 already decompressed and see if it can read it that way.

Mechy, Yea I am using the warpengine 68040 library on the emergency boot disk.

oh.... so I tried 3 times to recreate the working emergency boot disk and I never got it to work again even though I followed the same steps.  No matter what it always crashes on bootup on the Setpatch.  I ended up just installing 3.9 over the fairly fresh 3.1 which worked mostly fine.  I had to move amidock out of wbstartup cause it didn't like that.  I want to try installing the boingbags now but I can't get a non-corrupted version off the CD.  I'm gonna have to break down and buy a xsurf just to get this install going.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Yes. 3.9 is not supposed to be installed on a blank partition. Otherwise, you're again stuck with the wrong 68040.library. Install it on top of the already installed 3.1. And thank P5 for their custom hardware requiring a custom library.

3.9 is designed to be installed on a blank partition, there's tools for doing that right on the ERD and the CD.  Problem is P5 and their custom hardware requiring a custom library not 3.9.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

When I stopped using os 3.1's CD0 and installed the 3.9 CDROM software the CD started showing full file names which is great, but I can't seem to be able to properly extract any of the boingbags.  Each one says the file "AmigaOS-Update" is corrupt and fails CRC check or something like that.

What tool are you using to extract them?  Just use LHA.run from Aminet and extract them to RAM:.