I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......

[that_punk_guy]

HMetal wrote:
This will be my first and last reply to this thread, so you can direct flames and incessant blather to >NULL:

1.If you are of the opinion that this is over, you're wrong.
2 If you believe this nonsense of Buck's regarding AmigaOS, you both live in the same ethereal fantasy world.
3. The sleeping giant is about to awake.
4. Stay tuned for the rest of the show. (I've got my popcorn, how's your stash?  Oh, and make sure you get extra butter. ;-)

See you (my friends) in the usual places.. :-)

Somewhat cowardly, dropping flamebait and then running.

:-?

[takemehomegrandma]

Rogue wrote:

Do you have an AmigaOne? No? Then how come you are forced to use a specific hardware? NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO BUY AN AMIGAONE. It's an offer. Take it, or do not take it.

Maybe Hyperion will recieve an offer soon too? :-?

[uncharted]

T_Bone wrote:
I know this is kind of offtopic, but how come it's OK for a consumer to be forced to use specific hardware, but it's tyranny when a business must do so?

There seems to be this often repeated hypocrasy from certain quarters.

Hyperion and Eyetech are evil and bad because they tie users to a certain piece of hardware, and yet please remind of all the platforms MorphOS is available for. What's that? Just Pegasos?

If you are going to complain about hardware/software tyranny, at least complain about everything, rather than who it is you have a personal problem with.

[Jupp3]

Even Microsoft (or does Windows XP run on a 68k Amiga? I don't think so).

Microsoft Windows XP does run on most "IBM compatible" machines, not just "one specific model"

You might want to ask Apple why they have chosen to go this way and produce OS X for Apple-branded machines only.

Becouse that way they can put higher price tag on the product. If they had chosen X86 instead of PPC, there would have people asking "Why can't I just install it on cheaper IBM compatible PC?" and eventually there would have been something, like "MacOnLinux" for standard PC's ages ago.

But just lately they have noticed, that they can't get more user/developerbase unless they lower the prices, and they've considered doing X86 version of MacOS X afaik.

[Rogue]

takemehomegrandma wrote:
Maybe Hyperion will recieve an offer soon too? :-?

Maybe. I don't see the relevance, though.

[Rogue]

Jupp3 wrote:

Microsoft Windows XP does run on most "IBM compatible" machines, not just "one specific model"

AmigaOS runs on most "Amiga compatible" machines, not just "one specific model".

Point being?

Becouse that way they can put higher price tag on the product. If they had chosen X86 instead of PPC, there would have people asking "Why can't I just install it on cheaper IBM compatible PC?" and eventually there would have been something, like "MacOnLinux" for standard PC's ages ago.

Oh year, that is a good, qualified reasoning :-) LOL!

But just lately they have noticed, that they can't get more user/developerbase unless they lower the prices, and they've considered doing X86 version of MacOS X afaik.

That's the usual dream-on type of rumour frequently used by x86 addicts. Fact is there is an x86 version of Darwin, but that hasn't concinved Apple to go for the x86 market.

Face it, the producer chooses the hardware. If they feel they prefer PowerPC, it's what they do. As long as people are buying (and obviously they are) this is the way it works. All "they could sell so much more on x86" is pure speculation.

[T_Bone]

uncharted wrote:

T_Bone wrote:
I know this is kind of offtopic, but how come it's OK for a consumer to be forced to use specific hardware, but it's tyranny when a business must do so?

There seems to be this often repeated hypocrasy from certain quarters.

Hyperion and Eyetech are evil and bad because they tie users to a certain piece of hardware, and yet please remind of all the platforms MorphOS is available for. What's that? Just Pegasos?

If you are going to complain about hardware/software tyranny, at least complain about everything, rather than who it is you have a personal problem with.

Who said I was complaining about a specific party? It's an acrossed the board statement. I don't like being told what hardware to use, especially when the choice is severly limited.

That wasn't aimed at the AmigaOne, or any other product specifically. I feel that way about AmigaOS, Windows, MacOS, PalmOS, you name it. It's a perfectly reasonable comment.

But anyway, my point wasn't even that... my point was that someone made a comment that it would be "tyranny" if a business were given a limited choice of specific hardware, yet as consumers it's hunky dory to have the same choice.

Although now I have another analogy... consumers can be yelled at saying "TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT" but when a business is told the same thing it's tyranny.

But I digress... the point I was trying to build up to is that 1000+ of the people in the community were concerned about the hardware licensing, for fear of the same kinds of things that seem to be happening right now between Genesi and Amiga Inc. Obviously this was a reasonable fear (especially in hindsight), as legal action, (founded or not), is being threatened.

You may not agree with my dislike for this hardare license situation, but you certainly can't say it's an unreasonable fear, especially in light of current events.

[T_Bone]

Rogue wrote:
And then what? Run it on thin air? I'm sorry to tell you, since it obviously escapes your attention, but computer programs usually *do* run on hardware, so it is kind of difficult to remove it from the picture.

Alternatively, you are one of the deluded few that think that Operating systems just port themselves to a different platform. I can assure you that this is wrong (I've tried putting the OS 4 CD next to my Mac and guess what - nothing happened).

So pray, how do you intent to "have hardware removed from the picture entirely".

When my daughter was 3, and you tried to make her go somewhere she didn't want to go, she'd have this defensive reaction where she'd let her arms and legs go limp, so that you couldn't lead her, pick her up, or in any other way move her.

You've just done the same thing in conversation.

I'm sure you know what I meant, but you disagree, so instead of ignoring me, or discussing it, you'd rather pretend I'm stupid as a defensive measure. It's unnecessary, I'm not insisting you have to agree with me.

[Kronos]

uncharted wrote:

Hyperion and Eyetech are evil and bad because they tie users to a certain piece of hardware, and yet please remind of all the platforms MorphOS is available for. What's that? Just Pegasos?

There is one little but important difference in here, and it's called honesty.

Genesi have no problem admitting that they alone decide on which HW MorphOS will
run, and they don't hide the fact that they make that desicions only for their own best.

No hiding behind bizzare licences, when in reality it is all a matter of getting max. profit
with min. spending (pretty much what Roque said from a different angle).

[rayt]

@ Kronos

Genesi have no problem admitting that they alone decide on which HW MorphOS will run, and they don't hide the fact that they make that desicions only for their own best.

Amiga also have no problem admitting that they alone decide on which HW AmigaOS will run. I mean when they say "everyone who wants OS4 on their HW must get a license from us" its the same as when they say "we decide on which HW the os will run".

No hiding behind bizzare licences, when in reality it is all a matter of getting max. profit
with min. spending (pretty much what Roque said from a different angle).

I have always asked myself whats so "bizarre" about the os4 license that genesi didnt sign it. I might be wrong but afaik Eyetech is not a bigger company than Genesi and they had no problems with the same license, so what was the reason? You seem to know.

[Kronos]

@rayt
First of, how do you know that Eyetech has the same licence that
Genesi could obtain ? Their A1-licence predates the OS4-licence
by about 2 years, and didn't they claim to have exclusive rights
just a few days ago ?

Now, you might go back to to April 2002, and read all the
contradicting statements about what is in the licence (it is free,
we payed for it, it a different one to the A1-licence, only "A1s" will
run OS4, .......), add to it the reseller that tried to obtain such a
licence, only to be ignored by AInc, and the thin reasonigs for
it (copy-protection can be just efficient with just a (USB) dongle,
consumer protection is a joke when AInc is involved, and support
is till today far better at Genesi than it is at Eyetech).....

Not enough ? Well remember Ben H. ranting that he couldn't get a
Peg everytime when he was asked about OS4 for ? Often even
without being asked. Remember how fast that changed to "they
must get a licence" when he was offered a (free) Pegasos, and
even "Genesi must pay for the port" later on ? I somehow doubt
that Eyetech is financing/paying OS4-development.

All strong evidence that there never was licence to be obtained for
Genesi.

Dunno bout Amiga(inc), but there certainly more than a few "reds"
that go screaming around that Genesi would be preventing OS4
from getting ported to the Peg. Most of them 100% unlikely to
ever touch a Pegasos ......

[magnetic]

Rogue:

 BBRV and Genesi are seeking to work WITH Hyperion. Its obvious to anyone that comes to Amiga boards such as this that this "war" is out of hand. This market is so tiny and fractured already without all the drama.

 Hyperion has worked admirably on OS4. Wouldnt you want to really open up your market and support as much HW as possible? This means 2 things for you:

1. more $$
2. more support for OS4

Everyone involved needs to set their egos aside and move forward imho...

@Hmetal

You are truly living in a dream world.

magnetic

[cecilia]

uncharted wrote:

I know no one gives a rat's A55 about me!

Amiga.org loves you  :-)

well, some, anyway. (Thanks!) But That is sort of my point. We seem to be among the few to see how important it is to depend on each other and ignore the big shots.

 How about writing a "How to stop being a total plum?", there are many indivduals (of all opinions) that could really do with it. :-D

hm, that's harder than the Gfx tutorials I do :lol:
especially if I have to use terms like "plum".

I do think ideas like AROS are really interesting (and bloodline didn't pay me to say this) :roflmao:

and I'd love to see amiga on hand-held devices. cel phones, and PDA's and all that stuff.
And I've seen again and again that the people who get things done are the ones that realize that nothing will happen unless THEY do it.

[bloodline]

I do think ideas like AROS are really interesting (and bloodline didn't pay me to say this) :roflmao:

I'm sure we can work out some sort of payment! :-D

[cecilia]

bloodline wrote:

I do think ideas like AROS are really interesting (and bloodline didn't pay me to say this) :roflmao:

I'm sure we can work out some sort of payment! :-D

mmmmmmm, my thoughts are running WILD!!!!!

 :crazy:  :roflmao:

[T_Bone]

Maybe you could give her robot a brain? It's been acting strangely, running in circles, etc... :-)