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Author Topic: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......  (Read 23544 times)

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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2004, 11:56:42 AM »
(Off Topic, but I think it's cool when someones words are powered by "many others"? ;-))

I don't see any reasons to why MorphOS, AROS or any other OS running on Pegasos needs to "die"?! They are all being developed by different teams, they can all be used in different products. Hyperions OS would on the Pegasos be AmigaOS4, another flower in the Pegasos OS bouquette, and ready to be used in "Amigas".

And I seriously doubt that it would take a lot of "power" and "focus" for Hyperion to port their OS; isn't OS4 made with HAL and easy portability in mind (or is it tightly tied directly to certain hardware throughout the entire OS, like AmigaOS3.1)? The Pegasos1 and the Terons are quite similar (I would guess that OS4 would run on a Pegasos1 after a weekend of work, perhaps less), and MorphOS's migration to Pegasos II went fairly smooth, AFAIK.
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline restore2003Topic starter

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2004, 12:01:37 PM »
But what do you actually want to see from this? OS4 on pegasos? OS4 integrated into MorphOS? MorphOS intergrated into OS4? Do you see them as 2 separate products? WHAT THE "#"#!"# DO YOU WANT?  :lol:
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Offline uncharted

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #61 on: February 24, 2004, 12:07:39 PM »
@TMHG

Actually, my post was nothing to do with this actual thread, it's an observation I've held for some time without commenting about it.  As to insult, it wasn't an insult, but rather an observation, and one that I've toned down quite considerably.

I've yet to read anything balanced from you. Phrases like "Provided that Hyperion plays ball in a sensible way, everyone will win " compound that.  Hell, just take a look at your avatar, it's straight out of one of BBRV's "satirical" writings *cough* propaganda*cough* on WrongPla.net.

I'd be quite happy to have a good intelligent discussion, but I honestly don't think that'd happen.

Anyway, I've said it now, you'll hear no-more on the subject from me.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #62 on: February 24, 2004, 12:09:40 PM »
Quote

uncharted wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:

Unsure about what? He has made it very clear that he has no intention of stopping development, and is even perpared to reduce the licence fee that Hyperion whould have to pay for the Amiga name.

You are just spreading FUD about Bill Buck :-P


Ambigous statements about the outcome from the case, or "The Hyperion/Eyetech OS 4.0 Agreement will be declared  "null and void and of no force or effect." " ring a bell?



Do you think the exclusive OS4 on AmigaONE deal is actually good for anyone other than Eyetech?

How can extending OS4's supported platforms cause potential buyers of OS4 to be unsure?

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #63 on: February 24, 2004, 12:13:43 PM »
Quote

restore2003 wrote:
But what do you actually want to see from this? OS4 on pegasos? OS4 integrated into MorphOS? MorphOS intergrated into OS4? Do you see them as 2 separate products? WHAT THE "#"#!"# DO YOU WANT?  :lol:


Personally, I don't really care. :-o All I want is the success and secured development of the Pegasos hardware (and any incarnations of it), and I guess that an Amiga based on Pegasos and OS4 might help(?).

Integration of OS4 into MorphOS, or vice versa, has never been the plan (or even wanted) AFAIK. Hyperion is doing OS4 and they have done it their way. Even if the end-user will hardly notice, I'd say that there are a few but fundamental differencies between OS4 and MorphOS, making it hard to just squeeze them together.  
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline IonDeluxe

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #64 on: February 24, 2004, 12:14:32 PM »
Quote
If this comes through the way it should, it will be the most positive thing that happened to the Amiga community for many years. It looks like Hyperion might find themselves to be standing in front of a serious decision soon. Provided that Hyperion plays ball in a sensible way, everyone will win (Hyperion, Genesi, the customers, the resellers, the developers -- everyone in the community), and we will have unity again!


Unity? you are joking right?
BBRV is not interested in unity, never has been and never will be.
The only "unity" he has ever been interested in as far as the Amiga is concered is simply controlling the whole shebang, plain and simple.

Quote
I am only speculating of course, but the way I see things, it might very well come to that - Hyperion might have to make a choice. No-one has to love each other to be able to do business you know, but it would help if *some* efforts were put into *building* bridges instead of burning them down as soon as there is a chance ...


And now you talk about burning bridges, yet here is Genesi sueing Amiga Inc. Here is Genesi making claims of forcing Hyperion to tow the line about OS4 not to mention eyetech, all the while they could very simply have license the pegasos and had OS4 the easy way.
Dont bullshit me about the cost, I know what the cost was, and in comparison to what has happened, to the cost the community has paid, it is negligable.

The reason all of this has come to pass in my opinion is simple.
Gateway were going to do nothing, everyone knew it, and BBRV took advantage of the situation and bought the QNX base planned a new system that would run alod AMiga software whilst also upgrading current users to a new technology level.He HAD the entire community to himself.
This in and of itself was fine and dandy, the only problem was that although the roots of this was based surely on an Amiga foundation it was not Amiga.

The along come Amino buys the patents rights licenses the rest makes a plan for the comeback of the Amiga.
The problem boiled down to simply Amiga Inc as unwilling to place its future into the hands of what is now Genesi, allowing them to dictate hardware and OS and the direction it goes whilst bearing the Amiga name, and BBRV unwilling to give up/share the Amiga Community, which he requires to make his plans a success.

As there can only be one kingpin in this little community BBRV has simply decided he is going to be it, he was before, why should he allow Amiga Inc. to take over. So instead of working WITH the Amiga community he has strived ever since to tear it apart until there is no one that can oppose him as BEING the king pin, and thats all there is to it.

BBRV wants to be boss of the whole shebang, and his pride simply cant stand that Bill McEwen has come in and messed up his plans.

Quote
I\\\'d post something satirical, but I\\\'m afraid it might get used as genuine evidence in the Thendic Amiga trial!
 

Offline restore2003Topic starter

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #65 on: February 24, 2004, 12:15:20 PM »
It has to do with Genesi`s intentions on getting an agreement with Hyperion etc....

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Offline that_punk_guy

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #66 on: February 24, 2004, 12:19:39 PM »
Isn't BBRV actually two people?
 

Offline IonDeluxe

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #67 on: February 24, 2004, 12:31:00 PM »
Well yes BBRV is actually two people, yet Bill Buck seems to talk for both of them so often that it is pretty much synonomous with just Bill Buck.
Personally, it seems like Bill Buck has not the courage to stand on his own two feet but needs the crutch of RV.

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I\\\'d post something satirical, but I\\\'m afraid it might get used as genuine evidence in the Thendic Amiga trial!
 

Offline Cymric

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #68 on: February 24, 2004, 12:51:17 PM »
Quote
IonDeluxe wrote:
Personally, it seems like Bill Buck has not the courage to stand on his own two feet but needs the crutch of RV.

Talk about contrived ad hominems... I think I'll follow Red's example and settle in on a couch to watch what happens next.
Some people say that cats are sneaky, evil and cruel. True, and they have many other fine qualities as well.
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #69 on: February 24, 2004, 12:54:30 PM »
Quote

IonDeluxe wrote:
Well yes BBRV is actually two people, yet Bill Buck seems to talk for both of them so often that it is pretty much synonomous with just Bill Buck.
Personally, it seems like Bill Buck has not the courage to stand on his own two feet but needs the crutch of RV.


You're single, we can tell  :lol:
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Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #70 on: February 24, 2004, 01:02:37 PM »
@ uncharted

My strong view is that none of the "Amiga Inc Trio" members has been very sensible during the last years. That's my view, and I am entitled to it.

If I would make a choice (which I actually have done), I'd choose the Pegasos over the Teron solution anyday. I have my own reasons that back up my choice. I make no secret of those reasons. I guess that makes me "biased" in your eyes, but I have never claimed to be some unbiased "journalist". I am a happy Pegasos/MorphOS user! :-)

Yet, I actually *try* to discuss things from lots of angles (actually quite often), and my Pegasos II review was quite balanced if you ask me. I am not stupid, I am not employed by anyone in this community -- I am a free thinking individual, just like so many others here! So your nonsense about "propaganda" and such is totally uncalled for, and seems to only reflect some views of yours that any other people that argues *against your own* point of view are nothing but blind "camp-trolls" or such.

About my avatar, OK, it is (purpously) sarcastic. Actually, it shouldn't even be here now. I only used that for a short period of time, I then replaced it with my traditional "xoops" avatar, but when the new xoops2 engine was launced it came back for some reason.

For once I was actually in a quite upset mood when I made that avatar, it was after the discussion on ANN about the (for no reason) narrow focus of the upcoming Gothenburgh show.

But since you noticed it, let me explain the avatar: The avatar is divided into two areas, one red and one blue. The reds are to the left as usual (:-P). The cross in the background symbols religion (for some strange reason :-P). It's also burning which symbols the "cultish fanatism", the "racism", and the "apartheid policy" I regularly sense from some directions, "there is only one *real* solution, the pure must be kept separated from the filthy infidels, etc" (that ANN thread was the trigger in this case). You also see another thing in the background, the cool Pegasos ice cube. The text "Fire and Ice" is contradicting, but it's "talking" and it also binds the two areas togehter, because as much as some people would like it to be different *we are bound together*. We are all Amigans. In the centre, to even more symbolize unity, there is this Jesus figure, embracing OS4 and dressed in a blue cloth "for balance".

But as I said, this shouldn't be here. I removed it before, and I will remove it again.
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #71 on: February 24, 2004, 01:36:29 PM »
@ IonDeluxe

Quote
Unity? you are joking right?
BBRV is not interested in unity, never has been and never will be.


Genesi would benefit a great deal from a united community. Genesi wants as many developers as possible to the Pegasos hardware. That is why they brings so many OS's to the Pegasos, to attract as many developers as possible. That's why they want OS4 running on it too, because many developers (and early adopters) in this talanted community makes that OS their first choice. But Amiga Inc felt that this is what they had paid money for (some 3000 developers or so to go with the Brand), and they wanted to *own* them exclusively. They launched FUD campains against Genesi products, empty legal threats were made about "illigal code", etc, everything to scare people away from Genesi. This was the beginning of a split. But then Amiga Inc failed in everything they tried to do, while at the same time the competitor succeeded. Amiga Inc lost ground in the community and Genesi gained ground. If Amiga Inc couldn't have it all, they would have to divide it to save and protect what could be saved for themselves. "It's not Amiga" and other mantra's was repeated over and over again by some very well known loud Amiga Inc supporters (we all know who). When they were loosing grounds in the traditional Amiga community forums, the same people ran off to create amigaworld.net, this virtual Berlin wall, to even further separate "the pure part" of the community from the rest. This is not working for unity IMHO, this is working for the benefits of Amiga Inc.

MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)
 

Offline uncharted

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #72 on: February 24, 2004, 02:31:04 PM »
Quote

bloodline wrote:

Do you think the exclusive OS4 on AmigaONE deal is actually good for anyone other than Eyetech?


You could flip that around on Genesi with regards to MOS very easily. And no I'd rather see a free market with regards to both OS and hardware, with consumers being offered the chance to choose the combination that suits them.  But I sincerely don't believe that is the motivation here, IMHO Genesi have inherited some of P5's old hang-ups.

Quote

How can extending OS4's supported platforms cause potential buyers of OS4 to be unsure?


That isn't what the statements say (what the statement says and means is 2 diffent things).

The first talks about the licence to the Operating System without specifically naming AmigaDE, that's bound to be a source for confusion.

This second mentions voiding the agreement, which again is vague, not mentioning what exact agreement.  The only agreement publically known is the Amiga/Hyperion/Eyetech agreement that was signed at the WOASE show, this agreement includes Hyperion's licence of the AmigaOS code.  So is BBRV saying that Hyperion's licence of the code is void?  See? More possible confusion.

There are definately elements of uncertainty and doubt around these statements.

I can't see anywhere in those statements where the number of platforms for OS 4 will be extended.
 

Offline uncharted

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #73 on: February 24, 2004, 03:11:47 PM »
@TMHG

See PM.
 

Offline rayt

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Re: I`m confused! Genesi VS Amiga.Inc....the saga continues.......
« Reply #74 from previous page: February 24, 2004, 04:01:51 PM »
Quote
That's why they want OS4 running on it too, because many developers (and early adopters) in this talanted community makes that OS their first choice.


If thats true, why dont they simply get a license for Os4 like they originally intented to do? Why do they always think their are something better than other companies?

Dont get me wrong, I would like to see Os4 on pegasos, too. But not in the way that bill buck takes over amiga and the only official "amiga" will be the pegasos and there will be no A1s anymore. Maybe bbrv is afraid of the microaone because it might be as cheap as or cheaper than the pegasos and so he wants to stop it.