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Offline dammy

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #89 from previous page: September 11, 2015, 03:06:07 PM »
Quote from: amenophis;794942
Dear All,

Our New Amiga 1200 cases Kickstarter campaign has started today at 12PM

You can follow it at this address: https://t.co/7J1eDoAuv3

New infos for Keycaps and Keyboards are scheduled for around next week.

Stay tuned ;)

Cheers.


With 50 days to go, this project has reached the 50% mark. :)
Dammy

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arix-OS/414578091930728
Unless otherwise noted, I speak only for myself.
 

Offline Everblue

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #90 on: September 11, 2015, 04:20:27 PM »
I have pledged for this project, I really hope it does well and succeeds. I also wonder if the likes of AmigaKit or Vesalia will chip in. Maybe there should be a good quantity discount for them. I am also looking forward for the brand new keyboards too.
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #91 on: September 11, 2015, 10:07:47 PM »
Right.  I'm in for my three :)
 

Offline IanP

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #92 on: September 12, 2015, 10:57:11 AM »
I'm guessing the issues with offering large discounts for the online Amiga stores is it could eat into the costs of producing the molds if the kickstarter just scrapes past it's goal. If a lot of high value special editions are pledged for the production unit cost will be much less as a proportion of the total than if the goal is met mainly by standard cases. There's not much room for large discounts without risking a funding shortfall. Without larger discounts the cost may be unattractive to the online stores as there's no profit in it. Kickstarters are a risk, for most of us if we loose some money on it or end up having to wait a long time for it it's not the end of the world but for an online Amiga store it could be very serious, they need to see a timely return on their investment. Even if all does go well there may be a very limited market if everybody that wants a case has already backed the kickstarter. Things may change if funding is met quickly but I wouldn't count on it.
 

Offline candyman

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #93 on: September 12, 2015, 01:59:14 PM »
Quote from: amenophis;794831
The logo and font we're actually using are not the final ones.
We'll have our own Logo designed by Paul Kitching soon.


Hope you are going to show us it soon! :)
 

Offline amenophis

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #94 on: September 13, 2015, 03:32:54 PM »
As soon as we receive it ;)
 

Offline IanP

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #95 on: September 16, 2015, 07:57:19 PM »
Amicast Episode 6 is an extensive interview with Philippe Lang about the ongoing New AMIGA 1200 Cases Kickstarter campaign.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 08:02:56 PM by IanP »
 

Offline ToddH

Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #96 on: September 17, 2015, 12:55:30 AM »
I pledged again. I sure hope they meet their goal this time but it's gonna be close again.
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #97 on: September 17, 2015, 04:36:26 AM »
Quote from: ToddH;795788
I pledged again. I sure hope they meet their goal this time but it's gonna be close again.


Ya, same here.
 

Offline amenophis

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #98 on: September 19, 2015, 11:44:23 AM »
Dear all,

Today we just published an update on the KS campaign as well as on the project FB page.

These news are related to the new keycaps and new keyboards we're working on, and why we need to delay again these campaigns, due to the high cost (=small audience)

You can of course comment here on the forum, over the FB page and of course through the KS page.

As said, we need to delay the keycaps and keyboards campaigns, and here's why:
- Amiga keycaps does not posses usual mounts, they're of Mitsumi type.
- So these kind of keycaps have to be manufactured from new key molds!
 
As Mitsumi type are long gone as well. And because we have 5 diff profiles (keys heights) on the Amiga keyboard, this mean 5 diff key molds.
Of course these key molds are way smaller than the case molds you would say, and thats the truth.

But still we're around $11K+ per mold for each profile!
Then we also have 3 diff style of special keys, and the spacebar. Each of them also need a dedicated mold.
Knowing all of that, we also have key printing and extra charges for each country layout.

Where does this currently lead us regarding pricing?
Understanding what we've learned from manufacturing schemes so far.

- A FULL SET of new Amiga Keycaps replacement, compatible with all existing Amiga would be of price: €141 (any color/any layout) for 1000pcs!
a)Less qty of keys full set would mean an higher price per set.
b)Also any campaign goal based on this would be of €141K without shipping!

- A New Internal Amiga 1200 keyboard only
, with compatible switches to host existing Amiga keys (but without keys) would be of price: €118 (again for qty:1000)

- A New Internal Amiga 1200 FULL keyboard
,with non-compatible switches and including non-compatible keys (with previous Amiga) would be of price: €202 (again for qty:1000)

Conclusion:
As we're not satisfied with the pricing of €141 for a full set of new keycaps, we're still working on finding a better solution including lower manufacturing costs.
Thus, we're delaying the keycaps and keyboards campaign launch until we find a more suitable solution.


We also have other news regarding incoming new Special Edition cases that should hit the KS page next week ;)
And some of these new SE are going to have awesome bonuses ;)

Do not hesitate to comment.

Cheers,
Team A1200.NET
 

Offline IanP

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #99 on: September 19, 2015, 02:46:12 PM »
So Mitsumi couldn't or wouldn't help then?
 

Offline IanP

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #100 on: September 19, 2015, 02:57:07 PM »
Is it possible there is an off the shelf keycap set that could have an adapter insert added to fit on the mitsumi switches. Then only the adapter would need to be molded.

It may be possible to drill or mill existing keycap internals to make space for a Mitsumi adapter if suitable keycap shapes and sizes can be found.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 04:49:37 PM by IanP »
 

Offline amenophis

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #101 on: September 19, 2015, 05:15:23 PM »
Quote from: IanP;795953
So Mitsumi couldn't or wouldn't help then?

Not at all.
I've reached by phone personally to one of their tech-sales department manager to open discussions, and we also went through one of their OEM contractor i've been working with some years ago.
They've stopped producing these more than a decade ago, and the sad part is that they've even lost some of their archives over a fire some years ago, or so i was told.

Regarding your solution with an adapter insert, without having searched in that direction it seems that would be of a higher manufacturing cost. And also not really sure of the overall quality and durability of such.
 

Offline Everblue

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #102 on: September 19, 2015, 08:43:28 PM »
Hmmm if my calculations are correct for this project to succeed, 1300 Euro / day need to be pledged every day until the last. How is it doing at the moment?
 

Offline amenophis

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #103 on: September 19, 2015, 09:31:16 PM »
Quote from: Everblue;795962
Hmmm if my calculations are correct for this project to succeed, 1300 Euro / day need to be pledged every day until the last. How is it doing at the moment?

Your math is good.
No crowdfunding campaign have a straigth and regular progression anyway ;)

On the other hand there is also 140+ backers from the first campaign that have not yet moved to the new one.

There is also new SE coming soon, and we guess that some backers are waiting.

The best way to help this campaign progression is to tell all your friends and contacts, and try to convince them that a nice new Amiga 1200 case that includes enhancements and will not get yellowed ever again could be something they'd really like ;)

Thanks for your help Everblue ;)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 09:51:53 PM by amenophis »
 

Offline IanP

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Re: Project: New (colored) case for A1200
« Reply #104 on: September 22, 2015, 12:02:18 PM »
Some thoughts on new keyboards. Molding new key caps is too expensive so we need an alternative. Off the shelf key caps are standardised for common PC keyboard layout. Both the A1200 and common PC keyboards use a standard pitch of 19mm (1 x 1 key). Keys vary in widths in increments of 0.25 x standard pitch. Most keys are 1 row high with exceptions like the Return and Enter keys common to both layouts. The side profile of keys varies according to which of the six rows they are in. There are usually four or five profiles for the single row keys with at least one row sharing a profile with its neighbour.

The differences between the common PC and Amiga 1200 layout are:

Top row function keys on PC keyboard are 1 x 1 size in three groups of four keys, F1 through F12. The A1200 uses 1 x 1.25 size function keys in two groups of five keys, F1 through F10. 1 x 1.25 size keys are unlikely to be available in a profile suitable for the top row. A possible solution is to use 1 x 1 keys in two groups of six. This give a total width of 6 units per group instead of 6.25. If the keys are centred in the slots at the standard pitch the extra gap at each end is only 0.125 of a key or 2.375mm. Now we have twelve function keys instead of ten but there is only room for one new key in the A1200 keyboard matrix (89 of the 96 keys are mapped in a 15 x 6 matrix and the seven modifiers are mapped directly 1 x 7). It should be possible to configure the matrix membrane for the new keys to trigger both a standard key and a modifier e.g. F11 triggers the left Amiga and F1 keys and F12 left Amiga and F2. Some diodes, resistors or simple logic gates may be needed.

The next A1200 row begins with a strange key, the`~ key, This key is 1 x 1.5 size on the A1200 but the corresponding PC key is only 1 x 1. Next on the A1200 are the numeral keys '1' through '9' and '0', followed by three symbolic keys and the Back Space key ends the main area group. All these A1200 keys a 1 x 1 giving a total width for the main area of 15.5 units. The PC has one less symbolic key in this row group but a 1 x 2 Back Space key giving a total width for the main area of 15 units. Unless this row matches the profile of the next row a 1 x 1.5 size key may not be available in the correct profile. The next group on this row for the A1200 are the Del and Help keys, these are also 1 x 1.5 size. The PC has three 1 x 1 size keys Insert, Home, Page Up. The final group belongs to the numeric keypad and this is not a problem. A possible solution is to start the A1200 row further in with a replacement 1 x 1 size key and to replace Del and Help keys with 1 x 1 keys and add a new 1 x 1 key (Ins? It could trigger both a modifier and the numeric keypad '0').

The next row begins with the TAB key on the A1200 it's 1 x 2 and on the PC it's 1 x 1.5. If the profile is the same as the previous row a PC Back Space size key could be used but if it's not and the change suggested above is implemented, for a consistent group width a PC TAB key can be used. The rest of the row is good.

The next row starts with the Ctrl key on the A1200 and Caps Lock on a PC. The PC Caps Lock is 1 x 1.75. The A1200 Caps Lock is 1 x 1 but includes an LED and has the 1 x 1.25 Ctrl key before it. If the row profile is the same as the next row a PC left Shift size key could be used if it's sized to allow an extra symbolic key next to it but if it's too big there is unlikely to be a matching PC key. If the changes suggested above have been implemented the A1200 Ctrl key could be moved to the bottom row and a choice of widths for the A1200 Caps Lock key should be possible either with an embedded LED or with one to the left of the key.

The next row starts with left Shift this is 1 x 1.75 on an A1200. A PC Caps Lock key may be the correct size if the rows have the same profiles. If the PC left Shift key cap is available in 1 x 1.25 it can be substituted to match the above changes. If however it is only available in 1 x 2.25 it's no good. Some PC keyboards are missing a symbolic key to the right of the left Shift corresponding to the blank/international key on the A1200. In a worst case scenario we may be forced to use an indented 1 x 1 key for left Shift. The rest of the row should be fine, the 1 x 2.75 right Shift key seems to be common.

The final row may have the Ctrl key moved on to it. PC Ctrl, Windows and Alt keys seem to be the same size as the remaining A1200 modifiers left Alt, left Amiga, right Amiga and right Alt, all are 1 x 1.25. The Space Bar will need to be shorter if the Ctrl key is moved to this row.

If the suggested changes to the left edge keys have been made the maximum width of the main key area will be 15 units instead of 15.5. If the keys are centred in the main keyboard area slot this will still leave a noticeable gap either side (of 0.25 * 19mm = 4.75mm). Possible solutions could be to add pieces to the case parts molds to produce filler strips in the in colours to match the keyboard to the case. The left strip may also include an LED or light pipe housing if no led is embedded in the Caps Lock key. If molding these fillers is not possible maybe suitable pieces can be laser cut or 3D printed.

Depending on what key switches/actuators/contacts are chosen a laser cut and/or 3D printed and/or milled laminated switch housing plate with spacers, membrane location points and screw holes to attach the rest of the metal work should be manufacturable at a reasonable price if you can find the right people. CBM/Mitsumi molded parts because it would save money on mass production to get the cost of the keyboard right down. For a smaller production with a higher budget per item molding parts shoudn't be needed.