Am I really alone in wanting an Amiga AGA compatible?

[Nlandas]

Hey guys,

    I have Amiga Forever and it's a great effort and does let me run AmigaOS and get nostalgic but I still like running actual hardware. I'd be interested in running the latest AmigaOS if the hardware could be made for less. However, since it still runs over RISC chips the cost of a motherboard is too high for me to dedicate currently. I the OS could be ported to AMD/Intel that would be amazing but the money is likely not there.

    Am I really alone in wanting a retro Amiga AGA compatible clone system that would be as close to 100% compatible with the A1200/A4000 series? No I couldn't pay $1500 for it.

    However, with the retro scene offering Atari 2600 Flashback compatible systems(hacks for adding a cartridge) and now the RetroN 5 supporting NES, Famicom, SNES, Super Famicom, Genesis, Mega Drive, Game Boy, Game Boy Color, & Game Boy Advance cartridges, along with a multitude of retro Coleco, Intellivision, others and the previous success of the C64DTV - doesn't it seem like there might be a place for Amiga? Isn't there some cost effective way with modern ICs to create an AGA hardware system in a complete package compatible with modern TVs, USB, etc. and sell enough to get costs down?

   Am I wrong is the Amiga chipset still so complicated that even with modern ICs it's too expensive to clone like these other systems have been and release a modern hardware retro system?

I mean they even just released a complete replacement motherboard for the C64, which I do understand is less complicated than the custom chips but the market must be small for a replacement C64 motherboard at this point - isn't it? Not that I'm not also a C64 fan as well but I'd be more interested in a new C64DTV myself.

-Nyle

[xboxOwn]

Hey guys,

    I have Amiga Forever and it's a great effort and does let me run AmigaOS and get nostalgic but I still like running actual hardware. I'd be interested in running the latest AmigaOS if the hardware could be made for less. However, since it still runs over RISC chips the cost of a motherboard is too high for me to dedicate currently. I the OS could be ported to AMD/Intel that would be amazing but the money is likely not there.

    Am I really alone in wanting a retro Amiga AGA compatible clone system that would be as close to 100% compatible with the A1200/A4000 series? No I couldn't pay $1500 for it.

    However, with the retro scene offering Atari 2600 Flashback compatible systems(hacks for adding a cartridge) and now the RetroN 5 supporting NES, Famicom, SNES, Super Famicom, Genesis, Mega Drive, Game Boy, Game Boy Color, & Game Boy Advance cartridges, along with a multitude of retro Coleco, Intellivision, others and the previous success of the C64DTV - doesn't it seem like there might be a place for Amiga? Isn't there some cost effective way with modern ICs to create an AGA hardware system in a complete package compatible with modern TVs, USB, etc. and sell enough to get costs down?

   Am I wrong is the Amiga chipset still so complicated that even with modern ICs it's too expensive to clone like these other systems have been and release a modern hardware retro system?

I mean they even just released a complete replacement motherboard for the C64, which I do understand is less complicated than the custom chips but the market must be small for a replacement C64 motherboard at this point - isn't it? Not that I'm not also a C64 fan as well but I'd be more interested in a new C64DTV myself.

-Nyle

Wouldn't owning an Amiga 1200/4000/CD 32 solve your problem?

[spaceman88]

FPGA Arcade?

[Wolfe]

You would think someone would but . . .   I would buy one (or more depending on price).  But its too difficult or the community for this is too small.  Sad!  I want one . . .

[mechy]

Hey guys,

    I have Amiga Forever and it's a great effort and does let me run AmigaOS and get nostalgic but I still like running actual hardware. I'd be interested in running the latest AmigaOS if the hardware could be made for less. However, since it still runs over RISC chips the cost of a motherboard is too high for me to dedicate currently. I the OS could be ported to AMD/Intel that would be amazing but the money is likely not there.

    Am I really alone in wanting a retro Amiga AGA compatible clone system that would be as close to 100% compatible with the A1200/A4000 series? No I couldn't pay $1500 for it.

    However, with the retro scene offering Atari 2600 Flashback compatible systems(hacks for adding a cartridge) and now the RetroN 5 supporting NES, Famicom, SNES, Super Famicom, Genesis, Mega Drive, Game Boy, Game Boy Color, & Game Boy Advance cartridges, along with a multitude of retro Coleco, Intellivision, others and the previous success of the C64DTV - doesn't it seem like there might be a place for Amiga? Isn't there some cost effective way with modern ICs to create an AGA hardware system in a complete package compatible with modern TVs, USB, etc. and sell enough to get costs down?

   Am I wrong is the Amiga chipset still so complicated that even with modern ICs it's too expensive to clone like these other systems have been and release a modern hardware retro system?

I mean they even just released a complete replacement motherboard for the C64, which I do understand is less complicated than the custom chips but the market must be small for a replacement C64 motherboard at this point - isn't it? Not that I'm not also a C64 fan as well but I'd be more interested in a new C64DTV myself.

-Nyle

The c64 is big in europe and uk etc still. Sadly not as much in the USA,but my c64 from 1983 is still going,and i have kept my 128dcr's etc.
Why reinvent the wheel. there are plenty of working aga amigas out there needing a good home,and if you shop smart they can be had for reasonable prices.
  It amazes me how much time and effort people spend trying to get around the real stuff out there.
I see A4000's go for reasonable prices on ebay and the worst case they might need caps to make them reliable-just avoid ones with battery damage. add a cf for a hd  and away you go.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

there are plenty of working aga amigas out there

....

I see A4000's go for reasonable prices on ebay

I guess that depends on one's definition of "reasonable".  :lol:

[xboxOwn]

i guess that depends on one's definition of "reasonable".  :lol:

2500 dollars?

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

2500 dollars?

For that kind of money you could probably buy two!  :hammer:

[mechy]

I guess that depends on one's definition of "reasonable".  :lol:

for example:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Commodore-Amiga-4000-4000d-040-w-VideoToaster-keyboard-mouse-US-/161736900521?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a8453fa9

He might take a $500 offer. i have seen 4k's go from $350 - 1200+ depending what they came with.
It doesn't seem to have battery damage,has a buster 11(full working z3 buss), you get a 040,16MB should work in 2-8MB simms if alternating sockets have clips(i think so from the pics). add a cf adapter as hd(sandisk 32GB cf's on sale for $29 now). toaster isn't of much use for most people(could do a web cam with it lol).. assuming he took the offer, you would have a working machine for around $600. seems reasonable.
 you have a good base to build on if you want a gfx card or anything down the road,and add a pal/ntsc switch and viola! a whdload machine.  

I know someone will ask about the 32gb cf:  http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1012242&gclid=CPHop9Hvq8YCFQqSaQodBPAH1g&Q=&m=Y&is=REG&A=details

Mech

[xboxOwn]

for example:
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Commodore-Amiga-4000-4000d-040-w-VideoToaster-keyboard-mouse-US-/161736900521?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25a8453fa9

He might take a $500 offer. i have seen 4k's go from $350 - 1200+ depending what they came with.
It doesn't seem to have battery damage,has a buster 11(full working z3 buss), you get a 040,16MB should work in 2-8MB simms if alternating sockets have clips(i think so from the pics). add a cf adapter as hd(sandisk 32GB cf's on sale for $29 now). toaster isn't of much use for most people(could do a web cam with it lol).. assuming he took the offer, you would have a working machine for around $600. seems reasonable.
 you have a good base to build on if you want a gfx card or anything down the road,and add a pal/ntsc switch and viola! a whdload machine.  

I know someone will ask about the 32gb cf:  http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1012242&gclid=CPHop9Hvq8YCFQqSaQodBPAH1g&Q=&m=Y&is=REG&A=details

Mech

Isn't that link proof positive that classic Amiga system are reaching outrageous prices? That buying an FPGA Arcade seem to be not only dirt cheap but ultimate solution instead of buying an A4000D?

[mechy]

Isn't that link proof positive that classic Amiga system are reaching outrageous prices? That buying an FPGA Arcade seem to be not only dirt cheap but ultimate solution instead of buying an A4000D?

How is $500 outrageous? its probably a quarter of what it cost new. Maybe you expect something for nothing? The fpga arcade has no expansion bus to add anything to it.
Can you even buy a fpga arcade? are you comparing a real machine with vapor?(its vapor until i can hold it in my hand and use it).
what does the replay cost, i cant find a price anywhere on the site?
nevertheless, my goal wasnt to hijack his thread.

[xboxOwn]

How is $500 outrageous? its probably a quarter of what it cost new. Maybe you expect something for nothing? The fpga arcade has no expansion bus to add anything to it.
Can you even buy a fpga arcade? are you comparing a real machine with vapor?(its vapor until i can hold it in my hand and use it).
what does the replay cost, i cant find a price anywhere on the site?
nevertheless, my goal wasnt to hijack his thread.

Because you can buy it now if you want and this is the link where you can buy it:

http://amiga.amedia-computer.com/index.php/catalogue/infos/3/9/CONFVESAFPGA#.VYzk4kaIlZg

It is literally available for sale and they will literally ship it to you immediately. To answer your question what makes it special? Everything that the classic Amiga gives with it's expansion ports are already implemented in the FPGA Arcade therefore there is no need for expansion at all.

Such as the following:

1) USB
2) Network
3) Scandoubler
4) Sound blaster
5) CPU speed
6) RTG
7) RAM
Hard drive
9) Virtual disk
10) VGA port

For 499 euro I believe it is even cheaper than classic Amiga if you  intend to expand it like crazy and still the FPGA Arcade is faster than the fasted expanded classic Amiga. What else does it offer beside all the above I mentioned?

Check out the different platforms it also offer:

http://www.fpgaarcade.com/platforms/

[matthey]

It is literally available for sale and they will literally ship it to you immediately.

Really literally or just soon literally? Last I heard was that it would soon ship in quantity but that there were many back orders that would probably take some time to fill. That likely means "get in line and wait", literally.

1) USB
2) Network
3) Scandoubler
4) Sound blaster
5) CPU speed
6) RTG
7) RAM
Hard drive
9) Virtual disk
10) VGA port

Some of these features are on the expansion board which has not been produced and will cost more. Sound blaster though?

For 499 euro I believe it is even cheaper than classic Amiga if you  intend to expand it like crazy and still the FPGA Arcade is faster than the fasted expanded classic Amiga.

The FPGA Arcade only is about as fast as a high clocked 68030 and has no FPU or MMU. The unavailable expansion and a rare rev 6 68060 are required for "the fastest classic Amiga". The 499 Euro price includes a case and card so it is cheaper as board only (I believe closer to 300 Euros for the board only). Mist has AGA now and is currently available and cheaper (with half the memory of the FPGA Arcade) but has a different set of features. They are both competitive in price and performance with entry level AGA hardware. They are not going to beat a high end AGA Amiga in performance, yet.

[xboxOwn]

Really literally or just soon literally? Last I heard was that it would soon ship in quantity but that there were many back orders that would probably take some time to fill. That likely means "get in line and wait", literally.

I have only enough energy to reply to this because I know this discussion will endlessly go back and forth and I don't have this in me anymore. I am getting old, sorry. Let the new generation take over and have fun debating and replying back and forth until end of time..not me.

Now back to this, I am personally talking to one of the team of FPGA Arcade and he said they literally have it for sale and not in back order stock and they literally will ship it with tracking number.

If you wish to reply back with further comments, my suggestion is to contact them through the website and ask them yourself.

[KimmoK]

@Nlandas
>I still like running actual hardware.

You could try to:
-find A1200+030+fastRAM+HDD for ok 68k experience.
-or get a minimig HW (or something more capable FPGA board for AGA)

> I'd be interested in running the latest AmigaOS if the hardware could be made for less. However, since it still runs over RISC chips the cost of a motherboard is too high for me to dedicate currently.

1) the cost is not because the RISC CPU
2) cost is because a complex design of motherboard + small target market to cover R&D cost

AOS4.1 compatible new computers start from EUR1000 or so.
MorphOS is similarly amigalike os, and it runs on affordable old PPC apple HW. (my MorphOS laptop cost EUR50)
AROS/icaros and AEROS are also worth a try. It runs on ARM, x86 etc...
(but not with every x86 HW setup)
 

>I the OS could be ported to AMD/Intel that would be amazing but the money is likely not there.

It is not possible to target all motherboards, so that is not easy solution either.
But it should be possible to do good support for some selected motherboard that are in production and available for longer than some typical 3...6 months.

(If custom board needs to be made, x86 is not cheaper, just more powerfull.)

etc. etc.

>Am I really alone in wanting a retro Amiga AGA compatible clone system that would be as close to 100% compatible with the A1200/A4000 series?

You are not.

I personally want more than AGA capability.
It is not sane, but it would be fun to follow (+donate) to a development of AAA+ chipset implemented via FPGA.

I would consider using/playing with such HW on a PCIe slot of a cheap PPC motherboard.


But I also have real classic Amigas that will not last forever.
To replace them one day, I would be interested in a solution where FPGA based CPU and FPGA based chipset are used via PCIe backplane/busboard.
(a little bit like shown in my avatar)