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Offline SACC-guyTopic starter

Amiga floppies size
« on: April 30, 2015, 06:04:50 AM »
Okay, from the 1000 on (not high density drive).

We always say its 880k!
Is this the gross amount, if so what do they format to 8??k...

(http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/floppy1.html)
Older machines, such as the A1000 & A500 have a storage limit of 837k. Although these machines can read 880k disks with a device handler (a small file that allows the Amiga to understand the disk), they cannot boot from them when you switch on your computer.

Is this true?

Thanks,
M
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 08:00:06 AM by SACC-guy »
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: Amiga floppies size
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2015, 07:06:13 AM »
Huh?
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: Amiga floppies size
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2015, 08:18:39 AM »
OFS vs FFS?
 

Offline itix

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Re: Amiga floppies size
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2015, 08:28:24 AM »
I think it refers to formatted capacity using the Original File System (OFS) or the Fast File System (FFS). Before Kickstart 2.0 you could only use OFS on floppies.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: Amiga floppies size
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2015, 08:56:09 AM »
The standard DD floppy can store 1 MB of data.  This is the total amount of bits that can reside on the disk if you were to just run numbers out to it; then you could read 1 MB back as one (1) big hunk of data.  Then again, you half step the head and lay data in between a full head step -- this is not stable, but data lays here as a residual of the full tracks laid down -- a way for a freshly formatted disk to have it's prior content discovered; useful for the 3 letter anal orifice types like the TSA, FBI, NSA, and your MOM.  But let us say we wanted to put files on the disks, then we need to store the names of the files, where they were stored by track, sector, byte, etc.  So in addition to the names, we now needs a map of the disk or BAM, that tells where each file has its data.  Now what if data was written to shi(tt)y flimsy less that a piece of paper thickness magnetic media; well we might want to store some information to tell us our data is messed up or not, so we need something as simple as a CRC (cyclic redundancy check) that is the same when written as when read.  Well, most of can see that now we have lost a chunk of change from that 1 MB of space.  If we are really anal retentive, the we end up like IBM with 720 KB of space, or we do acid like Steve Jobs and squeak 80 KB more from our Orange Sunshine and get not only a disk that changes speed to keep the same data flowing on the little circles in the middle, as the large suckers at the outside of the disk, or 800 KB.  But instead we are the Amiga run by cools dudes who make up a file system similar to TripOS and call it the Original File System -- we start with a disk layout that with all that great fun stuff above and with some added nonsense that made sense when Mitchy and Joe Pillow were up all night dancing.  But a wee bit later, we grab some amphetamines and realize, "Dude, this is slow and stupid!"  We then think up a better file system and bypass Smarter for Faster; we get better performance, weed out some of the stupid crap, add International modes and Directory caches, and, "Bob's you Uncle!"

Any help?
 

Offline zipper

Re: Amiga floppies size
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2015, 12:05:45 PM »
And even diskspare.device:
 
"It is a completion or replacement of the trackdisk.device,
which lets you format your disks with 960 kB or 984 kB"
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Amiga floppies size
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2015, 04:37:56 PM »
Quote from: zipper;788616
"It is a completion or replacement of the trackdisk.device,
which lets you format your disks with 960 kB or 984 kB"

Man, those few extra kilobytes were way important back in the day!  :roflmao:
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: Amiga floppies size
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2015, 05:08:24 PM »
How good is the error correction and subfolder (directory within directory) support?  Is it supported by DiskSalv?  How does the speed of access to a file compare to FFS? Can it be used on other devices, like Catweasel?  Does it ramp up to HD floppies?  Or is it a pebble on the superhighway of computing, best left squished between the treads of a tire belonging to a Dodge 1968 Super Bee heading for that curve in the road that it will never make?
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Amiga floppies size
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2015, 05:28:37 PM »
Quote from: danbeaver;788628
How good is the error correction and subfolder (directory within directory) support?  Is it supported by DiskSalv?  How does the speed of access to a file compare to FFS? Can it be used on other devices, like Catweasel?  Does it ramp up to HD floppies?  Or is it a pebble on the superhighway of computing, best left squished between the treads of a tire belonging to a Dodge 1968 Super Bee heading for that curve in the road that it will never make?

Your metaphors are getting stranger and stranger the past couple days, Dan.  You feeling alright?  :)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 09:15:04 PM by Oldsmobile_Mike »
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: Amiga floppies size
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2015, 06:35:25 PM »
Dude,

An obscure file sysrem needs an obscure metaphor!
 

guest11527

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Re: Amiga floppies size
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2015, 07:02:15 PM »
Quote from: danbeaver;788628
How good is the error correction and subfolder (directory within directory) support?  Is it supported by DiskSalv?  How does the speed of access to a file compare to FFS? Can it be used on other devices, like Catweasel?  Does it ramp up to HD floppies?  Or is it a pebble on the superhighway of computing, best left squished between the treads of a tire belonging to a Dodge 1968 Super Bee heading for that curve in the road that it will never make?

You are mixing two things: The Filing system that organizes the disk into directories and files (OFS, FFS) and the exec device that transmits raw device blocks from the hardware to memory. That is, it is a two-layer design.  With the proper mountlist, FFS can operate on any type of (block oriented) exec device, for example the scsi.device or the trackdisk.device. Or even the diskspare.device (or whatever its name was).  DiskSalv does of course quite the same, it goes down to the device the filing system is mounted on. So yes, DiskSalv works on this floppy.
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: Amiga floppies size
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2015, 08:56:39 PM »
I suppose the sarcasm got missed, much as the forest by the trees?
 

Offline paul1981

Re: Amiga floppies size
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2015, 01:20:18 AM »
Was it diskspare also that enabled HD floppies to be formatted to 1.9MB? Or am I getting my devices mixed up?

I remember using this to achieve 1.1MB capacity on my A1200 IIRC:
http://aminet.net/package/docs/hard/HiDensity

At least I think it was that. Oh, also, is it 'floppy's' or 'floppies' anyone?
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: Amiga floppies size
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2015, 01:57:40 AM »
"your MOM."  :snort: