One unified OS for the future?

[OlafS3]

I think similar to Thomas Richter... for me it is really surprising what people managed to realize with MorphOS or Aros (X86) or AmigaOS but I do not really see the sense of NG. For all amiga-related things I have 68k (using it on emulation) and for normal work I have Windows (7 and . I do not need something between. The only exception is a reimplementation of amiga (with its chipset) in a modern FPGA. It has some geek-factor and it is different to what I normal use. A PPC-based system that is 95% identical to a standard PC-board but either a old Mac or a expensive custom PPC board is not very interesting to me.

[Thorham]

I do not really see the sense of NG.

It's because some people just like NG. That's all there's to it. Nothing to understand, it's just the way it is. That's what hobbies are about. People do what they like doing, and they use what they like using. Why? Because they just do. There's no use in trying to make sense of it. The same can be asked about classic. Why do I like my A1200? Because it's cool. Why do I think it's cool? I don't know, I just do.

[itix]

I don't quite get the point why there's any room between the two for anything "more novel but still obsolete", and PPC hardware *is* obsolete, either because it is old (MOS) or because it is "obsolete by design" (AOS). If I'd like to reach out for the Amiga community (rarely these days), there are still the 68K machines, so I don't need them for that.

There are two good reasons.

If you are using real Amiga you must patch OS and install upgrades.
If you are using real Amiga you must patch HW and install upgrades.

With MorphOS you just buy some $20-$200 HW from ebay, install OS from USB or CDROM and if you like it you register it online. That is Amiga made easy.

Real Amiga can do same but personally I am not ready to invest my time and money to get it there. Not anymore.

I had to sacrifice some level of compatibility, I can only run RTG compliant software on it. But it was not great loss because my Amiga 1200 could run only RTG compliant software anyway (I didnt have TV available to Amiga).

[OlafS3]

It's because some people just like NG. That's all there's to it. Nothing to understand, it's just the way it is. That's what hobbies are about. People do what they like doing, and they use what they like using. Why? Because they just do. There's no use in trying to make sense of it. The same can be asked about classic. Why do I like my A1200? Because it's cool. Why do I think it's cool? I don't know, I just do.

I did not say that my view (or the view of Thomas) is the only one. The same is that some here still hate X86, it is not rational at all. But it will be hard for "NG" to win new users because people outside compare it to the alternatives (that are better because of more money and more developers). I read somewhere that the people at Hyperion said better PPC than X86 because people would compare it with Windows when it runs on X86. That is both wrong and true, of course it is true that people would compare a X86 version of AmigaOS (or MorphOS) with other OSs, but it is also wrong because people always compare it with existing alternatives. Example for a OS that failed because of using X86 was BeOS, but I think BeOS did not fail because of X86 but because of not enough software. But I accept that there are people preferring a "obscure" OS running on "obscure" hardware because I do the same, just using another OS/hardware combination :-)

[itix]

I read somewhere that the people at Hyperion said better PPC than X86 because people would compare it with Windows when it runs on X86. That is both wrong and true, of course it is true that people would compare a X86 version of AmigaOS (or MorphOS) with other OSs, but it is also wrong because people always compare it with existing alternatives.

Nope People still compare MorphOS or AmigaOS to Windows, no matter were they running on same hardware or not.

[OlafS3]

There are two good reasons.

If you are using real Amiga you must patch OS and install upgrades.
If you are using real Amiga you must patch HW and install upgrades.

With MorphOS you just buy some $20-$200 HW from ebay, install OS from USB or CDROM and if you like it you register it online. That is Amiga made easy.

Real Amiga can do same but personally I am not ready to invest my time and money to get it there. Not anymore.

I had to sacrifice some level of compatibility, I can only run RTG compliant software on it. But it was not great loss because my Amiga 1200 could run only RTG compliant software anyway (I didnt have TV available to Amiga).

Not long ago I was on a amiga-meeting. There were a lot of Amigas with lots of addons, from A500 up to A4000. One was showing MorphOS on Mac Mini. Really a nice system (from first sight) but I do not think that there were people dropping their Amigas in favor of MorphOS (or AmigaOS). They like to tinker around with their old machine, build in exotic accellerators or sound cards. The only thing that really might create interest (and that is from my point of view the vast majority of amiga users) could be a FPGA accellerator they can use to update their old hardware. Or perhaps a good standalone device. "NG" is perhaps the loudest and most visible group in web but it is not representing the majority of users. What do you think?

[itix]

Not long ago I was on a amiga-meeting. There were a lot of Amigas with lots of addons, from A500 up to A4000. One was showing MorphOS on Mac Mini. Really a nice system (from first sight) but I do not think that there were people dropping their Amigas in favor of MorphOS (or AmigaOS). They like to tinker around with their old machine, build in exotic accellerators or sound cards.

And when you dont like to tinker with it, what choices you have there? If you go to WinUAE you still have to update OS with patches and upgrades.

The only thing that really might create interest (and that is from my point of view the vast majority of amiga users) could be a FPGA accellerator they can use to update their old hardware. Or perhaps a good standalone device. "NG" is perhaps the loudest and most visible group in web but it is not representing the majority of users. What do you think?

Old Amiga users are loud, too. It is built-in to Amiga users, I think But there are more 68k users than NG users combined, just more fragmented with different ideas and requirements.

[wawrzon]

And when you dont like to tinker with it, what choices you have there? If you go to WinUAE you still have to update OS with patches and upgrades.

because either there is no entity beyond any doubt authorized to improve the system incorporating the most neccessary patches or there is deliberate intention not to allow for it. whatever the case, the chance to keep the system faithful to its genuine spirit and have it reasonably updated without the perspective of sacrificing the compatibility is improving aros68k. it is not presently in a state that is enough to fulfill these demands fully, i admit, but the prospect is there.

Old Amiga users are loud, too. It is built-in to Amiga users, I think But there are more 68k users than NG users combined, just more fragmented with different ideas and requirements.

they arent. in fact there is even a group refusing the fpga approach, but you will not hear of them too much. the loudest and most annoying fraction is actually the one that  dismisses amiga as an obsolete platform, but advocates ng as the true stuff and demands loyalty and support for their case. interestingly morphos and aros fans are seldom that insistant.

[TeamBlackFox]

There are plenty of logical reasons to not like x86. I prefer my Tetra K1 development board from my job for work many times over my howling dual Xeon system, which, since getting the board, isn't being used as much.

Why don't I like x86? Number of reasons:

High power consumption, heat generation etc ( My workstation howls like a jet taking off )
Patent protected, poorly documented/supported SIMD instructions for C compilers
Glitchy, unreplaceable EFI that won't boot Linux BSD correctly
Expensive, compared to my ARM boards.
x86_64 assembly is harder to debug, read and program for, and you have to deal with useless addressing modes such as real mode.

I really like my ARMv7 A8-Cortex BeagleBone and my ARMv8 Tegra K1 I use for work. They aren't perfect, they aren't going to blow you away with power but they're wonderful, inexpensive computers that do more than my workstation does with a lot more power.

Now with OPENPOWER, OPENSPARC, and various MIPS CPUs abound building a less expensive, open source hardware board that does what is needed should be possible. I'll consider the Apollo 68k designs good when they have them running on a dedicated ASIC or built as a CPU. As I said, A-EON should partner with TYAN to adapt some of their CPU designs to a newer, less expensive AmigaNG system,since TYAN already manufactures POWER hardware.

[OlafS3]

it is not a matter of like or dislike. I yesterday bought a notebook with 2 core 2.7 GHz, 4 GB RAM, 500 GB Harddisk, GPU, WIFI and so on  incl. Win 8 for 238 EUR (used). There is nothing that can compete right now with such offerings.

Then you get support at every corner, something that is very important. If you have obscure hardware you have a problem there. Used Macs may be a exception there.

[Thorham]

it is not a matter of like or dislike.

Oh, but it is. If I like something, and I can afford it, I get it. If I don't like something, and I don't need it, then I don't get it. If people want NG and they can afford it, then they buy it. It's a hobby after all. No other justifications needed.

[OlafS3]

Oh, but it is. If I like something, and I can afford it, I get it. If I don't like something, and I don't need it, then I don't get it. If people want NG and they can afford it, then they buy it. It's a hobby after all. No other justifications needed.

I answered to TeamBlackFox

I know that people for some reason want to use NG even if I personal am not very much interested. It is only a discussion where people exchange different views.

[Fats]

You mean users are stupid trolls, right?

No, the people who are not user but use the fact that one or two programs don't run or have to be run in UAE to put rants on forums are the trolls. The users should use the OS they enjoy the most; hobbyist devs should work on the features they enjoy the most.

[itix]

No, the people who are not user but use the fact that one or two programs don't run or have to be run in UAE to put rants on forums are the trolls. The users should use the OS they enjoy the most; hobbyist devs should work on the features they enjoy the most.

Why should it matter if they put rants on forums?

[amigadave]

As I said, A-EON should partner with TYAN to adapt some of their CPU designs to a newer, less expensive AmigaNG system,since TYAN already manufactures POWER hardware.

With A-Eon's investment of more than 1 million dollars to Vari-Sys to design and build PPC motherboards for running AmigaOS4.x (and possibly some embedded markets), I don't see them changing directions any time soon, or switching to a different company to do design work, or manufacture boards for future A-Eon computers.

I think they are committed to the road they have laid out in front of themselves for many years to come.  This decision has it's own pros and cons, but one of the pros is that the direction they are going for the next few years anyway, should be stable and predictable, for users and developers who are interested in continuing development of AmigaOS4.x on PPC hardware.  I am not personally convinced 100% that this is the best path forward, but it might turn out to be the best choice we will have for future NG Amiga hardware.  I would like to see MorphOS also ported to future A-Eon motherboards, so we could have a new common hardware for both PPC NG Amiga inspired OSes, besides the SAM460, which I still consider to be a bit low powered (and there is no telling when the port of MorphOS will be finished for the SAM460).

[kamelito]

IMHO after the X1000 they should have made the X500 for 1/4th of the price.
It should have been at least 2Ghz dual core. I'm not seeing myself putting 3000Euro on any computer even the latest IMAC of MacPro even less on an Amiga but I totally understand those who do.
As for an unified OS forget about it. The nearest AmigaNG experience I'd like to try is WinUAE/FSUAE with AmigaOS 4.1 final.

Kamelito