One unified OS for the future?

[Kronos]

Few thoughts:

MUI is not just much easier to code for it will also look much nicer for user (+ offering options)

Amigas that can't run MUI without problems are pretty lowend indeed, so unless you plan to distribute SW for 68000 + 1MB useing MUI won't be a problem

Anybody who hasn't MUI installed on his mid-range Amiga (read 020 or 030 with atleast 4MB) is most likely not really interested in new SW

[amigakit]

Some interesting points there, Kronos!

I will take that into consideration.  Need to do more research with Classic users...

[Niding]

Regarding MUI, if its becomes a part of the requirement of the low end AmigaStore, then either;

1) Include MUI in the install archive of the Store
2) Make it very clear, with instruction where to find it and how to use/install it

MUI is "standard" for old users, but for returning people like myself when a program refuses to run because it wants xyz file/program as a basis, its not as apparent where and how to go about it.
Going to OSdepot or Aminet you have tons of directories and subdirectories. If you know the name or close to it, you can search, only to find 10 files with similar names etc.
People usually figure it out by asking around on forums, but why not make;

"Installing stuff on amiga for dummies" a standard assumption when making programs
Idiegogo storefront PDF that Pascal just posted was an excellent example about how instructions should be made.

This is not just a comment regarding AmigaStore, but more in general
Ofcourse, Epsilons blog have kinda set the standard in that regard.

[itix]

MUI is "standard" for old users, but for returning people like myself when a program refuses to run because it wants xyz file/program as a basis, its not as apparent where and how to go about it.

I wonder how you got your Amiga online, because...

1) AmigaOS 3.1 comes without TCP/IP stack
2) AmigaOS 3.9 comes with TCP/IP stack but it is on CD-ROM

Just wondering

[Yasu]

I wonder how you got your Amiga online, because...

1) AmigaOS 3.1 comes without TCP/IP stack
2) AmigaOS 3.9 comes with TCP/IP stack but it is on CD-ROM

Just wondering

Maybe he is not writing this on an Amiga?

[itix]

Maybe he is not writing this on an Amiga?

I dont think AmiStore is that useful without internet

[Niding]

I wonder how you got your Amiga online, because...

1) AmigaOS 3.1 comes without TCP/IP stack
2) AmigaOS 3.9 comes with TCP/IP stack but it is on CD-ROM

Just wondering

What Yasu said ^^

I got USB for my A1200 (thanks for excellent product Jens), so the urge to get online dropped radically. Kinda doubt getting online and browsing for files will be as efficient as using a USB stick.

I tried for a few hours getting online, but with the USB method, the motivation wasnt very high.

EDIT; and I agree, AmigaStore aint very useful unless you get online. Id say the motivation would go up getting it sorted, but I suspect Matthew got his hands full with the current release for a long time.

[Karlos]

@itix

Probably not a simple question to answer, but in your estimation, how many MUI applications depend on custom classes that are uniquely defined within that application (i.e. by runtime subclassing/extension in the BOOPSI fashion) as opposed to reusing existing shared classes?

[Kronos]

@itix

Probably not a simple question to answer, but in your estimation, how many MUI applications depend on custom classes that are uniquely defined within that application (i.e. by runtime subclassing/extension in the BOOPSI fashion) as opposed to reusing existing shared classes?

Not sure what you are trying to say here, as all proper MUI apps would define atleast 1 such class, but thats ain't a problem in anyway.

If a MUI-app uses 3rd party mcc-classes is an important question.

[Karlos]

If a MUI-app uses 3rd party mcc-classes is an important question.

That's basically what I was trying to ask.

[itix]

Probably not a simple question to answer, but in your estimation, how many MUI applications depend on custom classes that are uniquely defined within that application (i.e. by runtime subclassing/extension in the BOOPSI fashion) as opposed to reusing existing shared classes?

Many old MUI applications depend on NList.mcc custom class because it has neat features (like horizontal scroll bar) to developers missing from the original MUI 3.8 List.mui class. Probably another is TextEditor.mcc/TextInput.mcc because standard MUI 3.8 also lacks text editor capabilities.

But you can use NList.mcc and List.mui (standard) interchangeably -- if NList.mcc is not installed application can fallback to List.mui. If TextEditor.mcc is missing you can fill blank space with text box telling how to download and install one. But better would be provide all in one. It really annoys me if I have to download dozen of libs and classes.

But before any GadTools or MUI version I would do market research how many potential users there could be and what is their typical configuration. Kinda pointless to have stripped down version if there are next to none products they could run on their system.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I dont think AmiStore is that useful without internet

Ha!

http://instantrimshot.com/

Kind of makes sense that most people who are going online with an Amiga already have MUI installed.  I suppose there's rare cases where they wouldn't, but eh.  My .02 cents, either MUI or GadTools is fine.  Would love to try it out on my A2000!

[Heiroglyph]

The question is not whether AmigaOS is a better OS/platform than MorphOS or vice versa. The question is whether a unified platform would be better than both.

That's still not a unified platform. 68k is left out of both even though that's the largest group of current users with the largest collection of existing software.

PPC accelerators literally or effectively don't exist for most of us and the lucky few are only somewhat supported by either of the new OSs.

Basically, the two splinter groups are pulling the core users in different directions rather than becoming part of the core platform.

We Classic users have been so distracted by the infighting that we've forgotten that those two companies should be courting us instead of fighting amongst ourselves on their behalf.

IMHO, they should work on improving the Classic 68k so that the there is less incompatibility and a smoother move between their OS and Classic.

Who wouldn't buy a MorphOS or AOS4 680x0 ROM and OS for their Classic if it was still backwards compatible with AOS3? They've both shown us they can be compatible on a foreign CPU, so they could do it on 68k.

Since OS4 is effectively made by a custom hardware company, why not make accelerator cards for Classics?

I'd wager that a lot more people still spend money on their Classics than buy into the PPC platforms combined. Why don't they even try to embrace that market?

Whoever could grab the Classic market would own the platform by default, but neither seems to be paying attention to it.

[spirantho]

The problem is that the Classic would need so many upgrades to come close to the performance of even a Sam440, that there'd be no Classic left! You'd need to upgrade everything, and the actual machine would be little more than a keyboard and disk drive dongle.

[Kronos]

I also doubt that "Classic" users really are the biggest group but that may depend on your definition of "user".

IMO someone who just starts a bunch of games in WHDLoad and does same basic DPaint every odd year does not count.

In the same light one can also question the claim about the "largest SW collection", cos most of that is completly irrelevant today.

MorphOS,OS4 and to some lesser extent AROS aims a different demographic, peoöe who want to use "Amiga" as their main system doing things normally done by WinTel,Mac or *nix, which does mandate a certain min. spec far above all that is available for classic outside emulation.

Proper 68k users on the other side are far deeper entrenched in doing things the same way they did them for the past 20 years.

[Heiroglyph]

The problem is that the Classic would need so many upgrades to come close to the performance of even a Sam440, that there'd be no Classic left! You'd need to upgrade everything, and the actual machine would be little more than a keyboard and disk drive dongle.

From a software standpoint, there is no reason the 68k OS couldn't be at the same functional level as OS4 or MorphOS and thus almost completely source compatible and often binary compatible.

You could make some money off of Classic users while solidifying yourself as the market leader.

Having a larger percentage of the users and developers on your platform improves the community rather than working on incompatible alternatives.

If there was a unified platform, more resources could be expended on fixing either one of them.

Sure, some developers would leave if one of the two PPC OS's was gone or if they merged, but if 50% of the developers are working on something incompatible, 50% of them are only adding to the chaos.