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Offline TekkNedTopic starter

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Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2014, 06:34:07 PM »
So I decided to retrobright the A4000 I have. I was wondering if I need to protect the Commodore logo. Anyone?
 

Offline Damion

Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2014, 09:24:01 PM »
I would, either cover or remove it.
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2014, 09:27:45 PM »
Quote from: TekkNed;778927
So I decided to retrobright the A4000 I have. I was wondering if I need to protect the Commodore logo. Anyone?

Yes, a simple cover of Scotch clear tape (cut to not cover any of the plastic you are whitening) will work fine and peel off easily afterwards; I use an X-acto knife to trim up mine.
 

Offline motrucker

Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2014, 09:30:28 PM »
I would not waste the time to "retrobright" a computer's plastic parts. Krylon makes a plastic "paint" called Fusion, that has an "almond" color which is a good match for our computers. It gives a good color, looks like a new computer, and will NOT yellow again.
If you have to seal the retrobright, why not just paint and be done?
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Offline danbeaver

Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2014, 12:35:48 AM »
I have painted two plastic fascia that did not look "good enough" once retr0brited, but I prefer the original look and the clear coat takes no time to add and dry.  I spend my most time wrapping the retr0brited parts in Saran Wrap and taping up the backs than anything else; on a warm day in direct sunshine 90% of the "work" is done in 4 hours, and is completed in 6 hours.
 

Offline Damion

Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2014, 12:54:24 AM »
Agreed, to each their own, but I wouldn't paint plastic. (Metal covers are another thing, again if originality is important you'd want to research methods that provide the most accurate results).

I tried peroxide, it works, but the piece slowly re-yellowed, and there are risks involved. Clear-coating presents the same issues as painting and will not provide a "factory" appearance, so no thanks. Typically clearcoats have at least some minor amount of permeability, so I'm not entirely convinced you can't still have a return of yellowing (and now you have a mess).

Dyeing solves all the problems, it leaves the original surface texture of the plastic intact and (assuming a good color match) will render the plastic looking new, indefinitely. It's the most expensive option though, plus you need an un-yellowed sample for color matching (and an air compressor, spray gun, respirator, etc). Practice on some junk plastic first...

I'd rather have original yellowed plastic than something painted or "retro-brighted", but that's just me.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 12:58:25 AM by Damion »
 

Offline som99

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Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2014, 10:25:07 AM »
I have bought a batch of 12% peroxide to use at some point after ive built a UV bed (no sun in Sweden haha) to use on a Commodore PC keyboard that is badly yellowed to get it to it's former glory, the thing holding me off is the re-yellowing, don't know how long it takes, if it lasts a few years I don't mind.

This keyboard (not my pic mine is more yellow) is the one I want in correct color again for my Commodore PC-20 III, the case is in great shape but not the keyboard sadly :/

The gray/white colors seems to be inverted on the Commodore PC keyboards compared to the Amiga keyboards.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 10:27:50 AM by som99 »
 

Offline motrucker

Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2014, 01:24:15 PM »
Quote from: Damion;778963
Agreed, to each their own, but I wouldn't paint plastic. (Metal covers are another thing, again if originality is important you'd want to research methods that provide the most accurate results).

I'd rather have original yellowed plastic than something painted or "retro-brighted", but that's just me.

If you loose the factory look to the surface - don't apply the "paint" quite so heavy. This actually easier to do with spray can than spray gun.
But, as you say - to each his own....
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Offline TekkNedTopic starter

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Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2014, 08:41:31 AM »
I decided NOT to retrobright the A4000 and leave that decision to the potential buyer. I'm going to put my A4000/040 - 16MB up for sale this week. Not sure if I will put it on e-bay or just place a message here and see what happens.
 

Offline motrucker

Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2014, 12:09:18 PM »
I think the whole "retro-brite" thing is a huge waste of time. I found a plastics "paint" called Fusion made by Krylon that I use. They have an "almond" color that matches many of the Commodore machines quite well. It comes in spray cans that lay down a very good surface. Hell, if we have to "seal" the plastic after "retro-brite", why not just cut out the middleman and paint the things. I have one machine that I would defy anyone to tell it was painted!
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Offline Ral-Clan

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Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2014, 12:35:56 PM »
Quote from: som99;778980
This keyboard (not my pic mine is more yellow) is the one I want in correct color again for my Commodore PC-20 III, the case is in great shape but not the keyboard sadly :/

The gray/white colors seems to be inverted on the Commodore PC keyboards compared to the Amiga keyboards.

I don't mean to derail the topic, but is that a Commodore branded IBM Model-M keyboard?  Wow, if it is I would like one of those! I use a regular IBM branded Model-M currently. What is the part number?
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Offline som99

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Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2014, 04:44:35 PM »
Quote from: ral-clan;780709
I don't mean to derail the topic, but is that a Commodore branded IBM Model-M keyboard?  Wow, if it is I would like one of those! I use a regular IBM branded Model-M currently. What is the part number?

Yes it is! (not my pic just picked one on google images since my keyboard and computer is in storage) It's a buckling spring Model M with Commodore branding :D In my opinion the coolest Model M on the market :D

These are really hard to come by with buckling springs, family bought this together with the Commodore PC, sadly it has seen better days, no wear adn tear but mine has yellowed quite a bit, also Has the shortcut stickers from the Q&A Symantec software, easy to remove so not problems there but I want it to be white again that's why I posted here :)

I cann check the part number when I take it out the next time but if my memory serves me right it could be a commodore sticker there so I do not know if part numbers are the same as IBM branded ones.

Edit: I would realy like to use it at my main workstation but I want to have it together with my Commodore PC-20 III when I amd done with it, I want toadd a FPU, 1-2MB ISA RAM Expansion (there are hell to get hold of with software) and a fitting ISA VGA card from the era (Hercules monochrome ain't to fun) :)

So anyone has  ISA graphics card from 1986-1991ish hit me a PM and I'll buy it, something like ATI Wonder series, Tseng Labs ET4000, S3's or Cirrus Logics from that era. Would make my day if anyone has that :D

Should have some Cirrus Logics laying around somewhere in my storage so should look into that but I think at least most of them are to modern, around mid 90s, I know I have a few Oak Technology cards but don't know to much about them, took em from 486 computers in mid/late 90s when everyone throwed those computers on the dump.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 04:59:01 PM by som99 »
 

Offline danamania

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Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2014, 10:01:41 PM »
Quote from: mechy;777061
I've had good luck with plain old 3% peroxide from walgreens. i used a fiberglass dough rising pan and bent up some brass brazing rods(stainless welding wire works too) to bolt to the pieces(use only stainless or brass screws-plated steel will rust and contaminate the peroxide).

I keep the pieces 100% submerged (chip clips to hold the wire to the pan)in the peroxide and leave it in the hot texas sun for a day. I brought back 3 1200 cases/keyboards to white and one of the 1200's was orange when i started-literally orange. I did many A4000 pieces and some A3000 bezels also. They all came out great. be sure not to ever let the parts float up into the air or you will get stain lines(ask me how i know).
I don't use oxyclean or the paste some suggest.
I have even added distilled water to the peroxide to make up for evaporation and it still worked ok,just a bit slower. The secret i think is the light source and warmth-cold liquid doesn't work well.Texas summers can get to 100f+. UV lighting with the proper wavelength is probably best. To date none of the stuff i whitened has returned to yellow. You can boil peroxide down to make it stronger(DO IT OUTSIDE in a well ventilated place!). I have never needed to do this however.
Stronger peroxides can possibly be found at beauty supply.

Your experience is much like mine - a weak solution and naturally brutal sunlight does the trick :).

I've been retrobriting my Amigas (some) and Macs (mostly) for a bit over 10 years, though I didn't know it as that at the start. I'd had OK results *cleaning* gunk off cases with an oxy bleach - Napisan in Australia - and figured warmth made it work better so I'd soak parts in an old fish tank in the sun.

I've found re-yellowing does occur, but it's on the order of years later. I have an A600 I did in 2009, and it's not noticeably re-yellowed. An early Quadra 605 I did before that has re-yellowed to be more yellow than original mac platinum plastics, but less so than most machines of the era. Another sunlit bath in napisan+water works just fine to fix it.

I never kept accurate records of what all my pieces looked like beforehand, but I'm pretty sure if it was excessively yellowed in the first place then it re-yellows more quickly post-briting. It's like the lifetime of UV exposure that caused the breakdown of brominated flame retardents has left plenty of broken-down bromine within the plastic that's still leaching to the surface. I once had a Mac IIci with a lid that had yellowing displaying the shadow of the monitor that once sat on it. It retrobrited back to an even platinum, but eventually re-yellowed a little to show a lighter version of the same shadow again, despite being in dark storage most of the time post-briting.

In my experience, clear sealing is the *worst* thing I've tried. I gave it a go on the same Mac IIci panel above, after reading about protecting from re-yellowing. I only sprayed the rear part as a test to see if the texture would match, and it wasn't remotely close with the clearcoat I used (Mac plastics seem more matte than others, and the coat was a bit glossier). Unfortunately since the yellowing comes from within the plastic, all I got after retrobriting another time years later was clean platinum plastic where I hadn't clearcoated, but the plastic under the coat stayed yellow.

In the end like mechy, I use a weak solution and strong sun. Just a capfull (maybe 1/4 a coke can of granules) of oxy bleach, dissolved in enough warm water to cover the pieces and left in a shallow bath outside for a day. Southern hemisphere summer sun does the trick. I've tried a more traditional mix of retrobrite as a paste following a european friend's instructions. What worked in the netherlands over a day nuked originally-grey plastic almost white in under 20 minutes, before I'd noticed it was happening.

The nuked Mac. The front panel should be the same colour as the CD tray:


And a Mac keyboard, partly done with a weak solution for contrast:
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 10:03:43 PM by danamania »
 

Offline motrucker

Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2014, 02:58:39 AM »
You all are gluttons for punishment. All you need to do is try the "paint" I pointed out - or at the very least use semi-gloss or flat clear (Different makes look different as far as the "gloss" is concerned)
I restore Antiques for a living, and in that work I have been spraying finishes for over 30 years. (I also put trick paint jobs on motorcycles and cars - about 30 years worth)
But, if you all would rather play with "retro-brite", knock yourselves out.
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Offline klx300r

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Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2014, 04:26:53 AM »
Quote from: motrucker;780738
You all are gluttons for punishment. All you need to do is try the "paint" I pointed out - or at the very least use semi-gloss or flat clear (Different makes look different as far as the "gloss" is concerned)
I restore Antiques for a living, and in that work I have been spraying finishes for over 30 years. (I also put trick paint jobs on motorcycles and cars - about 30 years worth)
But, if you all would rather play with "retro-brite", knock yourselves out.

I agree with you BUT you must admit that it takes alot more skill & patience to pull off a great paint job then to slap on some gunk & let it rest in sunlight for a day ;)

The majority of us guys can tell from a block away if a computer we know so well was painted in any way especially when light reflects off of it so i can understand the hesitation to paint on both counts
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Offline motrucker

Re: To Retrobright or not to..
« Reply #29 from previous page: December 30, 2014, 03:38:16 PM »
Quote from: klx300r;780741
I agree with you BUT you must admit that it takes alot more skill & patience to pull off a great paint job then to slap on some gunk & let it rest in sunlight for a day ;)

The majority of us guys can tell from a block away if a computer we know so well was painted in any way especially when light reflects off of it so i can understand the hesitation to paint on both counts

I would bet you, you can't tell the painted computer. Also, it's not that hard to get a good paint job with these new, modern spray cans. They do an amazing job.
They even make "spray cans" that you can re-fill the "paint". This means you have the same flexibility as using a spraygun (mixing your own colors).
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