Any plans to increased the AmigaNG software?

[wawrzon]

That might be true, but how many of the people still 'using' m68k-amigaos belong to the target audience of a software developer?

Software development on 68k completely died down a decade ago. What was released after that is either a port of something maintained by outspoken PPC supporters (YAM, Wookiechat...) or written in AmiBlitz - which means that due to the limitations of the compiler, there'll always be a 68k built even if the developer doesn't care much about 68k (i.e. HD-Rec). As a platform for desktop users, 68k is in much worse shape than AmigaOS 4 or MorphOS. As in: "Even more dead".

A m68k port of AROS is nice for creating free/libre emulator distributions without depending on AInc. And it's a good gimmick for those people who collect, repair and polish old hardware and then want to have a shiny Workbench environment running on it that almost looks like it belongs to this century.

For everything else, m68k-AROS simply appeared way to late - which seems to be the common theme for AROS in general. If AROS would have been there when Amithlon took shape, the Amiga scene might look very different these days. But it wasn't, and now it's 2014.

christoph..  hello?!? anybody home?

aros68k a decade too late? wow?? as if anything else amiga was so much ahead of it. we are not discussing here any plans to catch up with windows, right? we just discuss what would benefit most of the interested parties involved in projects that all are inevitably doomed to fail.

[Wilse]

im not sure ahi allows this. im not sure too if it could have or ever been done with any sound card on amiga using any alternative driver system. i suppose if this was doable wanderer would have implemented that.

Indeed. As I already said:

I believe many of these are hardware or OS related and not something Thilo could have done much about

If it is AHI that causes it then I guess OS4 will probably never be able to handle simultaneous inputs.

Pity.

[Rob]

You talk about progress, but are happy to be stuck with AmigaOS derivative operating systems. If you want progress, use a peecee with a modern operating system.

If you like Amiga land, then you've got to accept that you're always going to lag FAR behind what's available now, and it's most likely NOT going to change. Doesn't matter to me. I use an A1200 and a peecee (yeah, with Winblows). Best of both worlds.

Also, why should 68k developers who enjoy 68k cater to NG users?


Those old machines are what it's all about to many people, including myself (no nostalgia).

I assume that, as a purist, you don't sully your Workbench with filthy tricks like Magic Menu, New Icons and MUI.

[cgutjahr]

we just discuss what would benefit most of the interested parties involved in projects that all are inevitably doomed to fail.

Olaf is the one frequently using terms like "available software", "no. of systems", "size of target group" etc. I'm just saying he should lower his expectations. A lot.

There are two niche jobs for m68k-aros in the retro community, but there won't be anybody really using it for actual desktop computing. I'm not sure Olaf understands this.

[Thorham]

I assume that, as a purist, you don't sully your Workbench with filthy tricks like Magic Menu, New Icons and MUI.

What is that supposed to mean?

[Rob]

What is that supposed to mean?

Well there's no point in bolting on extra functionality since it will never catch up with Windows.

[Thorham]

Well there's no point in bolting on extra functionality since it will never catch up with Windows.

That makes no sense. Of course I use Workbench enhancements (just not that many for stability).

[saimon69]

And i guess a port of the several wifi and network drivers+ network manager (despite obsolete) that aros x86 has and IS an extra functionality would not benefit a 68k user huh?

[wawrzon]

Olaf is the one frequently using terms like "available software", "no. of systems", "size of target group" etc. I'm just saying he should lower his expectations. A lot.

There are two niche jobs for m68k-aros in the retro community, but there won't be anybody really using it for actual desktop computing. I'm not sure Olaf understands this.

i think olaf understands as much as he needs to understand. definitely he understans more than many others, probably more than me. nevertheless if he advocates something, he must be allowed to a little enthusiastic about it. its not like he is charging people money for his work or trying to talk them into something. i think we were always pretty honest about the state and possibilities what concerns aros68k. and olafs distribution is much more than aros, it is an comprehensive bundle of software that in many cases would not be available for free or open sourced without him and co.

[ElPolloDiabl]

I remember he said he was keeping high end 68k systems up to date. (Nothing after OS 3.9) Also it provides free software for an FPGA Amiga.

[cgutjahr]

nevertheless if he advocates something, he must be allowed to a little enthusiastic about it. its not like he is charging people money for his work or trying to talk them into something.

Huh? My apologies if I came across as trying to shut him up or something. I simply disagree about where AROS will be going in the future, and was discussing that. I actually appreciate his efforts (and told him so in the past), because - amongst other things - they bring us closer to a free/libre Amiga environment for retro purposes.

I'm just saying what he said is dumb

[wawrzon]

I'm just saying what he said is dumb

huh?



but i guess you know this site yourself quite well:
http://aminet.net/statistics
well, even if among recent uploads ports overweight in the meantime even on 68k, it doesnt mean on ng platforms it is any better.
what concerns aros none of us knows exactly where and which way it goes. when m68k platform has been undertaken it went full throttle ahead, now it is pretty still, doesnt even that say something?

[cgutjahr]

huh?

Good lord... I'm joking.

it doesnt mean on ng platforms it is any better.

I wasn't comparing m68k to NG platforms, I was just talking about m68k-aros. You can judge that without ever looking at any NG platform. Actually you should judge it without looking at NG platforms given that it's using a totally different approach and targetting totally different people - and that most NG approaches reached a dead end long ago.

"Yay, we got more software updates than Geos 64 this month!"

what concerns aros none of us knows exactly where and which way it goes. when m68k platform has been undertaken it went full throttle ahead, now it is pretty still, doesnt even that say something?

Sorry, I don't get what you're trying to say?

[wawrzon]

i say that even in case of aros the involvement of 68k platform led to additional and pretty significant dynamic in allround development, improvements that all targets profited from.

[OlafS3]

That might be true, but how many of the people still 'using' m68k-amigaos belong to the target audience of a software developer?

Software development on 68k completely died down a decade ago. What was released after that is either a port of something maintained by outspoken PPC supporters (YAM, Wookiechat...) or written in AmiBlitz - which means that due to the limitations of the compiler, there'll always be a 68k built even if the developer doesn't care much about 68k (i.e. HD-Rec). As a platform for desktop users, 68k is in much worse shape than AmigaOS 4 or MorphOS. As in: "Even more dead".

A m68k port of AROS is nice for creating free/libre emulator distributions without depending on AInc. And it's a good gimmick for those people who collect, repair and polish old hardware and then want to have a shiny Workbench environment running on it that almost looks like it belongs to this century.

For everything else, m68k-AROS simply appeared way to late - which seems to be the common theme for AROS in general. If AROS would have been there when Amithlon took shape, the Amiga scene might look very different these days. But it wasn't, and now it's 2014.

I am not angry, I have no problem with different views

First (as Wawa said) too late for what? I do not expect it to become mainstream, I think there is a chance to become a niche and reverse the trend (shrinking community) to a certain degree. That it is "obscure" like you call it is a chance because "obscure" means different and this might turn in interesting for some. Copying Windows or Linux without comparable resources has to fail and there I see one of the reasons why the so called "NG" failed, another one is that both AmigaOS and MorphOS were too late too to really make a difference. Nobody of us can change history, yes Aros should have concentrated on 68k as first platform then they would have progressed faster and might have made a difference in the 90s but that did not happen. All were focused on new hardware instead of trying to build up on what they had (what is still the case at many of the NG devs). I now think that 68k (and for me that mostly means Aros 68k) offers the chance to build up on the existing code base with many years of work in it. Additionally it is possible to easy adapt or even simple compile Aros software (X86) to 68k. I do not see this as "dumb" even if you think different. I appreciate your experience from many years but even you can be wrong. And I am not the only one who has this (or similar) ideas.

[OlafS3]

That might be true, but how many of the people still 'using' m68k-amigaos belong to the target audience of a software developer?

Software development on 68k completely died down a decade ago. What was released after that is either a port of something maintained by outspoken PPC supporters (YAM, Wookiechat...) or written in AmiBlitz - which means that due to the limitations of the compiler, there'll always be a 68k built even if the developer doesn't care much about 68k (i.e. HD-Rec). As a platform for desktop users, 68k is in much worse shape than AmigaOS 4 or MorphOS. As in: "Even more dead".

A m68k port of AROS is nice for creating free/libre emulator distributions without depending on AInc. And it's a good gimmick for those people who collect, repair and polish old hardware and then want to have a shiny Workbench environment running on it that almost looks like it belongs to this century.

For everything else, m68k-AROS simply appeared way to late - which seems to be the common theme for AROS in general. If AROS would have been there when Amithlon took shape, the Amiga scene might look very different these days. But it wasn't, and now it's 2014.

I never said that Aros 68k will be the main desktop system or mainstream OS again, time have changed and no chance anymore. In opposite to how many NG users see the future I think the only chance is to have it as a kind of toy, a fun system you enjoy to use, play games, program, perhaps even do raytracing or whatever but as a pure hobby platform and not as a main work platform. For working you have Windows, Linux, Mac already, nobody needs AmigaOS, AROS or MorphOS additionally. That does not mean that there are some hobbyists who do that but for vast majority of people. I understand that already and have never said something different. But in todays world even a niche can be much more bigger than what we now have.

Aros 68k can run on
amiga hardware
emulation
new FPGA hardware

for amiga hardware it misses needed speed optimizations, as long as not new people step in I fear that not much will change
Emulation is working good
For new FPGA hardware there is a good chance that it will be adapted

BTW I think that is one of the main problems of "NG" because people mostly think about how they can get the same features as the "big" platforms but not how they can be really and feelable different and I think only difference makes it possible to "sale" something.

Much depends now on the involvement of devs and users how development will go on.