Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Three Good Doctors  (Read 4918 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hishamkTopic starter

Three Good Doctors
« on: July 26, 2014, 10:12:41 AM »
Does anyone have more info about the three doctors in Florida who approached Jay Miner and Dave Morse to start a 'killer gaming computer company'?

Would be cool to get their take on things - I wonder if they ever made anything on their USD 7 million investment.

Are they the true seeders of the Amiga? That is, would Jay had not thought of starting a computer company or seek capital, had the doctors not approached him with the idea and invested?

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/comment-6.html
2x A1000, 2x A2000, 1x A3000, 4x A1200, 3x A500, 1x CDTV, 1x CD32, 2x Pegasos II, 1x EFIKA
 

Offline matthey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 1294
    • Show only replies by matthey
Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2014, 11:09:22 AM »
Quote from: hishamk;769755
Does anyone have more info about the three doctors in Florida who approached Jay Miner and Dave Morse to start a 'killer gaming computer company'?


There is this YouTube video about the history of the Amiga with some similar information:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LAzSZKJ3o0

I expect the good doctors were paid something when C= bought the company. Creditors (debt holders) would have been paid off eventually but stock holders could have lost money with the $4.25 C= buyout (we don't know the number of shares or added stock holders). The stock price was likely depressed by the collapse of the video game market and the limited number of companies that could afford to pay off the debt and continue with development and manufacturing.
 

Offline Astral

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2005
  • Posts: 491
    • Show only replies by Astral
Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2014, 11:35:31 AM »
They dissappeared into the computer underworld. Rumour still holds today that they were given an Apple a day to keep them away :D
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 10:07:53 PM »
They were dentists in Boca Radon who wanted to invest as venture capitalists.
 

Offline matthey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 1294
    • Show only replies by matthey
Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2014, 03:53:42 AM »
Quote from: danbeaver;769974
They were dentists in Boca Radon who wanted to invest as venture capitalists.


Today in the U.S., the doctors would be the 1% rich elite taking advantage of tax loopholes to avoid taxes. Good doctors now are forced to pay their "fair share" so the other 50% doesn't have to pay taxes. Milton Friedman asked "What is America?" and told us we have a choice despite approaching the point of no return.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4L-2wQcCI8

We turned away from Jimmy's socialism creating the environment for the Amiga to be born. Sadly, I don't think the Amiga would happen today or could be reborn today as we have gone much further down the wrong road :(.
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2014, 04:23:05 AM »
I was clarifying an Amiga historical point, what are you talking about???
 

Offline matthey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 1294
    • Show only replies by matthey
Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2014, 04:38:58 AM »
Quote from: danbeaver;769984
I was clarifying an Amiga historical point, what are you talking about???

I'm talking about the socio-economic and financial aspects affecting the creation, demise and potential rebirth of the Amiga technology. I thought it was interesting and relevant since without a creative and profitable environment the Amiga would not exist, this forum would not exist and we would not be having a conversation. No one seems to understand a good philosophical conversation anymore :/.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 04:42:48 AM by matthey »
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2014, 05:02:58 AM »
Quote from: hishamk;769755
Does anyone have more info about the three doctors in Florida who approached Jay Miner and Dave Morse to start a 'killer gaming computer company?...



Sorry, I guess I missed the questions on social philosophy, the economy, and taxes in that post.
 

Offline matthey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 1294
    • Show only replies by matthey
Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2014, 07:09:16 AM »
Quote from: danbeaver;769987
Sorry, I guess I missed the questions on social philosophy, the economy, and taxes in that post.

Quote from: hishamk;769755
Would be cool to get their take on things - I wonder if they ever made anything on their USD 7 million investment.

This is no question but it is a pondering about the financial success of the doctor's investments. It doesn't really matter but it affected many people meaning it's a social philosophical quandary. The doctors were able to accumulate a substantial sum of money at that time because of the prevailing economic conditions. There certainly are tax implications involved in the ability to accumulate the wealth and how it was invested. They probably received a sizable tax deduction on their investment losses which is more limited today. Taxes are one of the best ways to discourage savings/investment and the U.S. socio-economic environment has become hostile to investors, IMO. The perpetual dead economy makes returns on investments poor and venture capitalism extremely risky, IMO. The 3 doctor's investments would be about $16 million today adjusted for inflation. I believe that would be adequate to revive the Amiga, continue development in fpga and even burn a 68k ASIC that would make it competitive enough for low priced devices with an efficient OS like the AmigaOS. I'm an investor of sorts who has been able to outperform the markets in a huge way considering they have been the worst since FDR and the Great Depression, yet I wasn't able to make as much as one of these doctors. Instead of 3 investors, we would need tens if not hundreds of investors to raise a similar amount of capital. I would not get much tax break if I lost money and the compounded interest of the multiple taxes taken have put a serious dent into the money I have been able to accumulate while I received no benefit. The sales outlook of computers/video game hardware is poor in this economic environment and tech is riskier to begin with. The result is no Amiga today and, IMO, there would have been no Amiga then given these conditions. I think it's natural to compare the past with present. History is about learning from the past and it applies in heaps to investing. Many people don't understand the basics of investing and money or we wouldn't have chosen the wrong path and maybe we would have fixed some problems rather than making them worse.

Quote from: hishamk;769755
Are they the true seeders of the Amiga? That is, would Jay had not thought of starting a computer company or seek capital, had the doctors not approached him with the idea and invested?

This is a very philosophical question. Why else would it be interesting? From the questions, it sounds like someone wanted to learn from the past. A snapshot of the past is worthless without comparing it to something. All the involved issues in this case have to be understood including investing, financial, socio-economic, marketing, etc. I'm sorry if you don't understand or don't care danbeaver. Probably nobody does and that is why we have the problems that we do. Only a few people, maybe 1%, try to invest and start businesses and we are becoming more like the 1% of the 1%.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 07:12:19 AM by matthey »
 

Offline crawff

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 240
    • Show only replies by crawff
Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2014, 08:49:33 AM »
@Matthey

You sound like a right barrel of laughs….
 

Offline wawrzon

Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2014, 12:24:52 PM »
@matt
i really doubt anything economy related made amiga what it has been, on the contrary, i rather think that it was personal vision and dedication, and those are rarely rewarded under economical circumstances, as later history has proven. america may have contrary examples but for instance the creators of your most iconic superhero, siegel and shuster went away with nothing, bought off with a dime, afaik. i dont know i call that encouraging. in particular in current debate around amiga i feel economical factors a hindrance rather than motivation.
 

Offline matthey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 1294
    • Show only replies by matthey
Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2014, 01:56:48 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;769998
@matt
i really doubt anything economy related made amiga what it has been, on the contrary, i rather think that it was personal vision and dedication, and those are rarely rewarded under economical circumstances, as later history has proven. america may have contrary examples but for instance the creators of your most iconic superhero, siegel and shuster went away with nothing, bought off with a dime, afaik. i dont know i call that encouraging. in particular in current debate around amiga i feel economical factors a hindrance rather than motivation.


Jay Miner had lots of vision and dedication. I think he had half the Amiga worked out in his brain before he was even approached by the investors and was looking for an opportunity to create it. His primary dedication and drive was likely to make the best computer ever and the hope it would improve society (judging from some of his comments). The vision of the investors seemed to be to make a great game machine and make a lot of money. Their visions weren't so incompatible. Without money, none of it would have happened though. I think Jay would have worked for less than the going rate to do what he loved but he still needed enough money to buy Mitchy doggy treats. It's kind of sad that Jay did not benefit more from his creation and have more say in it's development after C= bought out Amiga. I expect the good doctors went away with much less than they invested but gained a little investing knowledge. Medhi Ali and Irving Gould probably made millions off the Amiga while they killed it with their lack of vision. With economics and investing there is always an element of luck and then there is the invisible hand, whether it be divine intervention or not. I prefer Ludwig von Mises's interpretation of Adam Smith's "invisible hand" over Milton Friedman's interpretation, in this case.

Quote from: crawff

You sound like a right barrel of laughs….


My humor is kind of dry, sarcastic, intellectual humor kind of like British comedy. It comes from the frustration of watching the same ignorant mistakes being repeated over and over again without being able to do anything about them.
 

Offline danbeaver

Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2014, 02:02:34 PM »
OT.
 

Offline matt3k

Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2014, 02:05:29 PM »
Quote from: matthey;769983
Today in the U.S., the doctors would be the 1% rich elite taking advantage of tax loopholes to avoid taxes. Good doctors now are forced to pay their "fair share" so the other 50% doesn't have to pay taxes. Milton Friedman asked "What is America?" and told us we have a choice despite approaching the point of no return.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4L-2wQcCI8

We turned away from Jimmy's socialism creating the environment for the Amiga to be born. Sadly, I don't think the Amiga would happen today or could be reborn today as we have gone much further down the wrong road :(.


Good point...
 

Offline Iggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2009
  • Posts: 5348
    • Show only replies by Iggy
Re: Three Good Doctors
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2014, 06:37:44 PM »
Quote from: matt3k;770002
Good point...

Who the f*ck is Jimmy?
And what does rendering all our wealth unto 1% of the population have to do with Socialism?
What is this, another nut job Republican pipe dream of reality?
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"