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Author Topic: Halt and Catch Fire..  (Read 5337 times)

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Offline Plaz

Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2014, 04:31:26 AM »
Quote from: Sean Cunningham;768870
I don't get your comment regarding the iPod


Ipod kind of a generic reference. Their marketing was one of the first I can recall tying in to personalizing your hardware. What I'm stuck on is the technical bit where they have yet to ship a functional clone, it's on the verge of completions, but wait... "it needs a soul".  In the PC biz since 1984, I can't recall anyone caring if their machine had a soul, or if it was even the least bit personalized. (well maybe some stickers on the monitor). It was all about more apps, more memory, faster clocks and better colors/resolutions.

Besides, early 80's a computer with a soul was baaad. WarGames anyone? "Do you want to play a game".  "Open the pod bay doors HAL".  :)

Plaz
 

Offline Sean Cunningham

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Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2014, 03:58:50 PM »
Mmmm, no, the whole "soul" thing and the personalized approach is essentially the mythos of the Mac, and to a lesser extent the the Apple II before it.  But they're essentially designing the Mac (while making the Grid Compass), not an iPod.   More apps, faster, etc. has absolutely nothing to do with what created the "Apple II Forever" cult that existed well into the 1990s.  Nothing with a "soul" was reflected in the marketplace at the time but it was not a foreign idea or resigned to movie monsters.   Even the concept of a "soul" and what makes a machine different or special is rather plastic and has been assigned to all sorts of machines whether or not they made any attempt to say your name, ahem, Amiga.

Read any books by or about Marvin Minsky from the period.  Read any hyperbolic tech journalistic fantasy about where things were going, particularly in the household and all that they're trying to achieve are in there.  It's where people have wanted to go from the beginning and the computer book section was filled with both fiction and non-fiction works on getting there.  Even in the early '80s, because I was reading some of them.  I wouldn't be surprised if the authors of the show read The Soul of a New Machine, from 1981.  I didn't read it until 1984 but so much of the struggles designing this thing, pulled in all directions by economics, physics, time, fear and big dreams is in there, as well as Steven Levy's book.

I even recall a commercial that goes back to what must be 1980, because I'm associating it with the evening that the Rankin Bass animated The Return of the King played on TV (though it could have even been earlier than this and a televised broadcast of The Hobbit from 1977, either of these puts it 1980 at the latest).  I don't recall what company it was for.  In hindsight I want to say Xerox because it wasn't about a particular product it was a commercial about "the future" and in it a fellow comes to work and is greeted by his computer, who addresses him by name on the screen.

The computer, though my memory is fuzzy, had a layout similar to the Lisa and I believe it was in a horizontal case with the monitor placed to the left of the case.  Compaq would have a portable sorta like this later and I've seen it in other computers as well (I think of this commercial every time I see this layout).  Anyway, during the course of this guy settling in to work for the day there is some kind of reveal that the day is special, like it's the fellow's birthday, and the computer congratulates the fellow with a picture of a rose.  I'm pretty sure it was a rose.  The image kind of paints on as a series of horizontal lines.

This commercial and its vision of a personalized "relationship" with its user has stuck with me all these years.  I was nine years old and the only other thought, even, of a computer was limited to what they represented in Star Wars, something for R2D2 to plug into, and maybe one episode of either The Rockford Files or CHiPS or something.  But that idea of the personalized experience was seared into my head at that moment and over the years I've thought about it each and every time I've seen a film by The Ladd Company, because their logo of the tree paints itself onto the screen in horizontal lines the same way that 1980 corporate fantasy of the future way we'll be dealing with computers did.

So, sorry, but I don't agree with your assessment of the period.  It's a fact, none of this has ever been a part of any IBM PC Clone, but this is a fictional narrative about big ideas during a time there were a lot of big ideas even if we didn't know how to build it yet.  The show isn't about a specific company or machine and it's easy enough to see Cardiff and its characters are pulling liberally from all sorts of companies and personalities.  

It's about the era where "anything was possible" and personal computing was such a blank slate but so much of it was ironically shackled by its dependence on being PC compatible and anything that wasn't this was an "also ran".  But these were the ideas that inspired new generations of people to be interested in computers.  Not what they were as a collection of facts or even what software they could run.  That's not inspiring.  Not at all.  That that's what dictated the success and failure in the cold, bland marketplace is only a fact.  The truth is inspiration came from someplace else and is more about what characters like Cameron and Joe are obsessing over even though engineers like Gordon are already dead or just locked in some Asperger's love affair with the machine itself for what it is and not what it does or might someday do.  

It's what inspired a little kid to actually think about what a computer was and what it might be, enough to learn some BASIC a year or two before his family ever even owned a computer.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 04:39:24 PM by Sean Cunningham »
 

Offline ErikN

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Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2014, 11:41:26 PM »
test
 

Offline Plaz

Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2014, 12:26:00 AM »
We're just coming at it from two different angles. All your references of the time are from sci-fi, marketing and fiction exploring "what computers could be" in the furture. Nothing wrong about that. We both read, watched and marveled over the same material back in the day. It brings us to where we are here today.

On the other hand I'm mulling what a business would be doing in a situation when they're going up against big blue, risking their entire company and fortune in an attempt to market the first ever clone. "Oh wait stop development, we need to make it more.... cuddly." Well it makes better drama tv, but I guess I was hoping more of a docu-drama.

Quote
The show isn't about a specific company or machine

And actually it's inspired by the real story of Columbia Data Products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Data_Products

Plaz
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 12:35:23 AM by Plaz »
 

Offline Sean Cunningham

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Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2014, 12:52:01 AM »
Um, no.  All of the books and authors I reference are non-fiction, about real people at MIT, Carnegie Mellon, DEC, Sierra Systems, Apple, etc.  While fictional computers and their depictions were interesting it was real stories about real people that were actually more interesting, and more like what this show represents.  It's fiction that gives these people the target they're shooting for.

The nay-saying engineers are absolutely reflective of why TI never put a dent in the world and why Motorola has ended up where it is.  The drama and clash of personalities and bizarre behavior is also completely consistent with my own experiences working with exceptional folks in creative technical start-ups and what you get when you put multiple creative, technical geniuses under one roof, add pressure and stir with management that doesn't really understand what they're managing or how to deal with the people they need to keep on track.

This last episode, the industrial design drawings look like the Grid Compass.  I believe Compaq later had a portable that was of similar "clamshell" design with the screen hinged somewhere towards the middle as well.  But they mention it's got a metal case so that still makes it more Compass, which had a magnesium case.



This episode had what seemed to be a glaring error to me on the part of the writer, as well as a missed opportunity for Gordon to point out an even better false analogy.  He incorrectly calls "contrails" the exhaust from a jet and "dust" but it's actually condensation, hence the "con", and water vapor.  The idea that Joe was inadvertently calling the machine "vapor" has worse connotation than anything in the computer business.  My guess is the writer was too fixated on expressing fear of being left behind "in the dust" to catch this.  And most screenwriters are not going to be fluently versed in what they're writing about so their technical adviser should have caught this.

They also should have caught Cameron's reading of "D-E-C".  The actress didn't know that she should have just said it like she was saying "deck".  The technical adviser should have caught this too.  Still, minor quibbles.  The show continues to get better as the characters develop.

Gordon has lost it though.

Colombia Data Products may have served as the inspiration for the company and its "clean room" BIOS but they never made anything close to the computer that Cardiff is making in 1982 (or ever), aren't from Silicon Prairie and when they followed up their generic clone with a "luggable" it was no more portable than anything else at more than 30lbs.   There are elements borrowed from Apple.  There are elements borrowed from Compaq.  There are elements borrowed from DEC.  It's an amalgamation.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 01:32:04 AM by Sean Cunningham »
 

Offline Plaz

Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2014, 02:36:30 AM »
Yes you're correct Minskey certainly a valid reference, but the only book mentioned by name was Soul of the machine. Your other named references were TV and movies, so I was keyed on that.

Quote
The drama and clash of personalities and bizarre behavior is also completely consistent with my own experiences

Yeah been there done that too. You've described it well. Mine was with the radar, satellite field. While not directly computer related, modifying the "latest" CP/M "desktops" (more like large metal cubes) was part of the development. I still tell stories about the place and it's characters 25+ years later.

Quote
This last episode, the industrial design drawings look like the Grid Compass. I believe Compaq later had a portable that was of similar "clamshell"

Yeah, with that digital display I agree. Though when they started talking luggable, the first thing that came to mind was the osborne and compaq's. (osborne early CP/M, not clone for the younger folk ;) )

Quote
It's an amalgamation.

Absolutely. Though Columbia stands out to me first with the bios to get around IBM's copyrights. They even make the point by bringing in specifically IBM's legal team as Columbia had to deal with. If making an amalgam with Cardiff, then I could go along with some other fictional big bad computer guy.... CBI.. or whatever.
After that part though it does turn in to a big mish-mash of companies and tech mixed with the quirky characters. And actually as I type this I'm reminded how much it feels like the cast of Battlestar Glactica  :)

Plaz
 

Offline Sean Cunningham

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Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2014, 03:56:30 AM »
Quote from: Plaz;769078
Yes you're correct Minskey certainly a valid reference, but the only book mentioned by name was Soul of the machine. Your other named references were TV and movies, so I was keyed on that...

I also mentioned Steven Levy's book.  Most of the fictional references were an entirely different context, but, you know, whatever.  This is boring now, so I'm sorry your memories of the '80s and...whatever must have somehow inspired you was also so boring as well.
 

Offline Plaz

Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2014, 04:29:22 AM »
eh, never  mind. Enjoy your show.

Plaz
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 05:31:34 AM by Plaz »
 

Offline Kremlar

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Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2016, 02:03:25 AM »
Season 3 has started, and I'm about 1/2 way through episode 2.  Lots and lots of C64s on the show, and even an Amiga mention by Boz in episode 1 (in the bar scene, before he tries to call his son).
 

Offline kneehighspy

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Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2016, 02:44:30 AM »
Quote from: Kremlar;813149
Season 3 has started, and I'm about 1/2 way through episode 2.  Lots and lots of C64s on the show, and even an Amiga mention by Boz in episode 1 (in the bar scene, before he tries to call his son).


i was about to mention that, boz said he wanted to hear more about that Amiga when he got back (from the phone call).

been watching since episode one, i love the show.  i also enjoy finding all the mistakes like cables not plugged in machines, parts and computers that dont work together.  like season one episode one where gordon and joe finally decide to reverse engineer the ibm pc, gordon desolders the bios on the pc motherboard but then show him removing the chips from installed 28 pin sockets, so he didnt really need to desolder anything.

still, love the show.  certain aspects take me back to my times in the 80s.

//kneehighspy
//kneehighspy
 

Offline mechy

Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2016, 03:16:18 AM »
Quote from: Vlabguy1;768836
Anyone watch the show?  It seems ok, ha but I did notice a C1702 monitor being used, so cool!!

Rich


lots of c64's and 1702's for sure. The theme seems to be loosly following Quantum link,the online service for c64's back then. I saw a quick glimpse of the quantum link main entry screen a few times... and the avatar people etc were part of it also.

for those who never used q-link in the day:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Link

and if u want to experience q-link today like we did then:
http://orrtech.us/qlink/
 

Offline kneehighspy

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Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2016, 04:07:49 AM »
well episode three of season three just had the Amiga 1000 make two appearances!  season three is really getting good, much better than how season two started.

//kneehighspy
//kneehighspy
 

Offline Kremlar

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Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2016, 12:58:48 PM »
Like the show or not, it's bringing real legitimacy to C='s history in the computer world and doing it on air.  C= fans should be watching, if for no other reason but to support the people behind this show.
 

Offline ToddH

Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2016, 04:49:51 PM »
Love the show. Saw the Amiga 1000 last night and smiled. This season is firing on all cylinders.
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2016, 07:16:30 PM »
Well, the show's title makes a direct reference to a state that Motorola built into the MC68000 in case the processor was in an unrecoverable state (yet another mainframe concept).
Obviously the 68K doesn't catch fire, but it doesn't do anything else either until it a reboot.

I am not too impressed with the producer's needed to hire a pretty blonde women for the lead when most computer developers from that period were scruffy looking eccentric males.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Kremlar

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Re: Halt and Catch Fire..
« Reply #29 from previous page: September 15, 2016, 02:53:26 AM »
Joe mentioned the Amiga on last night's show.  Great stuff!