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Author Topic: Old computers, old house wiring, DANGER!  (Read 3059 times)

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Offline JeffTopic starter

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« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 02:57:19 AM by Jeff »
 

Offline QuikSanz

Re: Old computers, old house wiring, DANGER!
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2014, 08:40:20 PM »
Good Day,

Actually that tool you listed is worth 10 times what you paid for it in just possible damage alone. Good investment. Most maintenance and handymen don't have a clue about this.

Chris
 

Offline JeffTopic starter

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Re: Old computers, old house wiring, DANGER!
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2014, 09:00:45 PM »
Quote from: QuikSanz;768287
Good Day,

Actually that tool you listed is worth 10 times what you paid for it in just possible damage alone. Good investment. Most maintenance and handymen don't have a clue about this.

Chris


Thanks,
-Jeff
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 12:36:15 AM by Jeff »
 

Offline hishamk

Re: Old computers, old house wiring, DANGER!
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2014, 10:11:54 PM »
Anyone know where I can get an AC receptacle tester for 220v outlets? I googled but nothing came up and Amazon.co.uk doesn't even know what it is.

TIA
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Offline QuikSanz

Re: Old computers, old house wiring, DANGER!
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2014, 10:33:34 PM »
Quote from: Jeff;768289
I am an amateur audio guy among other things. I ran FOH for a small band for years and  helped with setup and tear-down (everyone is always tired/stressed/key'ed up and exhausted) at these times. I also did all of the live recording and mixing, demos, cd's, etc.

The guitar player and I almost died one nite setting up a gig in an old improperly wired building. This is NO JOKE! All of our gig bags contain one of these cheap little things now. Do NOT TRUST your life with someone else's electricity... Following this I returned home to our basement studio and started testing outlets. Just about EVERY outlet in my house was installed by licensed electricians who swapped the Hot/Neutrals, left grounds off, never even knew about GFCI, ect. I am still finding and replacing outlets with HD 20 amp commercial grade receptacles.  

Now, any thought on line conditioners, battery backups (DIY or Pro), proper grounding of all interconnected components, is there a quick pic diagram?  

Keep it going and pass the word. More to come.

Thanks,
-Jeff


A whole house surge protector Should be available that you can install at the incoming power. As for BBU, mostly are of of the inverter type and are very inefficient due to converting power from DC to AC and have the computer PSU convert it back.

A better idea would be to relocate the PSU/BBU outside and cable it into the computer, A bit like an A1200 with a battery dongle, much more efficient.

Chris
 

Offline QuikSanz

Re: Old computers, old house wiring, DANGER!
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2014, 10:36:28 PM »
Quote from: hishamk;768292
Anyone know where I can get an AC receptacle tester for 220v outlets? I googled but nothing came up and Amazon.co.uk doesn't even know what it is.

TIA


In the US 220-240 is split phase, Neither of the 2 wires are ground. Not sure how it's done there but check with a Wholesale Electrical Supplier in your area.

Chris
 

Offline motrucker

Re: Old computers, old house wiring, DANGER!
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2014, 10:37:00 PM »
Quote from: QuikSanz;768287
Good Day,

Actually that tool you listed is worth 10 times what you paid for it in just possible damage alone. Good investment. Most maintenance and handymen don't have a clue about this.

Chris

and I thought everyone had one of those.
Seriously, this is an extremely important subject that too many people just blow off.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 11:41:53 PM by motrucker »
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Offline danbeaver

Re: Old computers, old house wiring, DANGER!
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2014, 12:55:21 AM »
I hate agreeing with people who are right (?), but MOtrucker points out something, I prefer to check my outlets I attach my wrist strap to before I work on my stuff.  Granted a GFI outlet is nice but I check continuity between the ground hole (green) and the wide slot (white) or use one of my 1960's neon bulb cheapo plug checker between the small  slot (black).  Also check my phone jacks to make sure green/red are the primary.  But then I'm no rocket surgeon.
 

Offline magnetic

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Re: Old computers, old house wiring, DANGER!
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2014, 02:02:09 AM »
A professional line regulator will help with this.
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Offline freqmax

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Re: Old computers, old house wiring, DANGER!
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2014, 02:52:16 AM »
First: These are systems that gives you no second chance. Mistake = Dead.

FYI There are several distribution schemes (AC and home setting presumed):
 * Three phase delivery where one phase and the neutral is used in outlets.
 * Split phase delivery where the two "outer" wires gives the full distribution volt and outer to mid gives half of that.

In the three phase system there's a real neutral. Protective earth is wired to the ground and is _only_ there to protect human life. In some countries it's only wired to ground in the transformer station and is forbidden to ground anywhere else.

There have been cases where the power company has mixed up neutral and phase which of course burns all electrical equipment.

To more practical matters:
You can check the outlet by measure the voltage between outlet protective earth to an earth connection outside your house in the ground (Indoor water piping is not suitable for protective earth in any manner). Then connect a series resistance of 10 ohm and
5W to limit current in series with the multimeter in current mode. There should be a negligible flow. Say less than 1 mA at most. Outlet protective earth connection is not supposed to have any flow to ground at all. But if a phase get in touch with protective earth. Then it should short circuit it all.

Between the two normal holes there should be standard mains voltage. Between any of these holes and protective earth there should be either half for split phase distribution (unsure!) or full mains voltage on one hole and almost none (less than 20V) on the other relative to protective earth in a three phase distribution system (with two power wires to the outlets).

Mains voltage is 110 V in USA, and mostly 230 V in Europe. Japan has both (110/230) depending on south or north location.

To protect:
 * Check your outlet wiring by measuring - and don't assume anything
 * Have a look for dirt and spider nets inside
 * Add overvoltage protection - that will disconnect instantly on too high volt
 * Use power conditioner that catch current surges (thunder), crest, capacitive - inductive imbalance etc
 * Install online UPS
 * Install main protection for thunder at the central. Only then will per outlet "surge protection" be useful
 * Let all conductive wiring (electricity, aerial, water, sewage) enter the house at the same point
 * Install thunder protection ground system so that the house is a Faraday cage
 * Install ground Residual-current device breaker (RCD)
 * Use isolation transformer
 * Connect the ADSL etc network connection via an optical Ethernet link. Same for sensitive computers. Voltage difference between the phone line and mains is a common cause in thunder situations for broken equipment.

There is in most cases no standard for which wire is neutral and phase. So you can't rely on that at all. But you can connect equipment to the same outlet (phase) and measure before connecting to avoid preventable mishaps.

 * Make use of galvanic isolation transformers for audio etc.

I would say the cheap way to protect is by:
 * Check outlet(s) to have protective ground
 * Use protection equipment that thwart overvoltage
 * Use isolation transformer
 * Make use of UPS and isolate with media converters (fiber connection)
 * Check if any outlet use a different phase in the same room and label them

Some info on outlets: wp: Electrical outlet

In the end it's all about cost and probabilities.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 03:06:20 AM by freqmax »
 

Offline ZeBeeDee

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Re: Old computers, old house wiring, DANGER!
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2014, 09:51:11 AM »
Here you go!


Quote from: hishamk;768292
Anyone know where I can get an AC receptacle tester for 220v outlets? I googled but nothing came up and Amazon.co.uk doesn't even know what it is.

TIA
To err is human ... to BOING divine!

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Offline apa

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Re: Old computers, old house wiring, DANGER!
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2014, 10:24:01 AM »
Quote from: hishamk;768292
Anyone know where I can get an AC receptacle tester for 220v outlets? I googled but nothing came up and Amazon.co.uk doesn't even know what it is.

TIA


This place have a lot of variants http://www.groundology.com/earthing/accessories