Surface 3 - New direction, higher prices and crappy i3

[SysAdmin]

The scale of Windows 8.x’s failure is staggering!

http://betanews.com/2014/05/08/the-scale-of-windows-8-xs-failure-is-staggering/

[psxphill]

The scale of Windows 8.x’s failure is staggering!
 
http://betanews.com/2014/05/08/the-scale-of-windows-8-xs-failure-is-staggering/

He seems to have a personal grudge, or he's figured out that his commission goes up ever time he bitches about 8.1.
 
The graph looks quite different if you add Windows 8 & 8.1 figures together, so you can tell he wasn't even trying to be objective about it.
 
He also talks a lot about Apple stuff.

[psxphill]

You sure spend a lot of time trying to get us to buy Windows 8.

I have never encouraged anyone to buy Windows 8.
 

I said Windows 7 works fine for me so why do you care what version of Windows I or others in this thread use?

You sure spend a lot of time trying to get us to not buy Windows 8.
 
Including lying that Microsoft promised desktop Apps would work on Suface RT.
 

It's a fact that Windows 8 was a huge failure and most of the team that created it have been fired. Those facts are not debatable they are easily verified.

One minute you say people have retired and now you're saying they were fired. It's hard to verify facts when they change all the time.
 

If Microsoft losing 900 million on the Windows 8 based Tablet is success to you I would hate to see what you think failure looks like. That almost 1 billion dollar loss was in one quarter of the year.

The loss was on Surface and not Windows 8, it's the first thing you'd find out when trying to verify the facts. Microsoft made a loss on the original xbox for a long time as well.
 
Losing 1.2 billion dollars sounds like a lot, but they have 88 billion dollars in cash and had an income of 5.7 billion dollars for the last quarter. Which makes Surface the same type of failure that people go through every week playing the lottery.

[SysAdmin]

I have never encouraged anyone to buy Windows 8.
 
 
 
You sure spend a lot of time trying to get us to not buy Windows 8.
 
Including lying that Microsoft promised desktop Apps would work on Suface RT.
 
 
One minute you say people have retired and now you're saying they were fired. It's hard to verify facts when they change all the time.
 
 
The loss was on Surface and not Windows 8, it's the first thing you'd find out when trying to verify the facts. Microsoft made a loss on the original xbox for a long time as well.
 
Losing 1.2 billion dollars sounds like a lot, but they have 88 billion dollars in cash and had an income of 5.7 billion dollars for the last quarter. Which makes Surface the same type of failure that people go through every week playing the lottery.

 

Don't think I ever said Windows RT ran regular Windows Desktop Applications, I said customers are confused if it does or does not run them.

People can buy Windows 8 if they want to feel the pain, go for it.

　
I'm against crappy products but even worse is a company trying to force it's customer base to upgrade to an OS version that's worse than the former version. And making sure the channel is full of Win8 machines but making it hard to get machines with Win7 installed. That's not very customer friendly.

[bloodline]

Including lying that Microsoft promised desktop Apps would work on Suface RT.

The problem Microsoft made for themselves with WindowsRT is that that made no platform distinction between "RT" and "Pro". It's not anecdotal, I actually know people who went to PC World, had a tablet demonstrated to them, they were told "it runs windows, so you already know what to do"... They get it home and it doesn't run any of the software they already have despite the fact it is running windows... Oh and none of that cool software iPad owners are running works on it either.

The problem when selling a consumer device (which a Tablet is), is that the consumer doesn't care about the platform, if it looks like windows it should run the stuff they have for windows. Apple were very carefull to ensure people don't confuse their tablet and desktop platforms.

[psxphill]

I actually know people who went to PC World, had a tablet demonstrated to them, they were told "it runs windows, so you already know what to do"... They get it home and it doesn't run any of the software they already have despite the fact it is running windows...

PC World will also sell you an £85 HDMI cable because you will get a higher definition picture than a £5.99 cable. That doesn't mean it's the fault of the manufacturer.
 
I don't recall Microsoft ever making that claim about Windows RT. If someone in PC world lies to you then you should take it up with them.
 
They've agreed to swap HDMI cables (although it will be interesting to find out how that works out).
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/h9RmpnFKD38wsv6DX1Fx4b/hdmi-cables
 
FWIW the opposite argument that a cable either works perfectly or doesn't work at all is also incorrect but it's not as wrong as what PC worlds claims. Also if you want to run your 4k TV at 60hz then you need an HDMI 2.0 cable and that is likely to be more expensive. You need to know what you're buying or go to someone who does, or you're likely to get fleeced no matter what shop you go into.

[tone007]

I installed Windows 8 over a year ago on my Alienware laptop and eventually got used to it after being initially annoyed by the "split-personality" aspect of Metro/Desktop, but when my SSD started flaking out I figured I'd do a fresh install of 7 on the new SSD.  Honestly, I'm missing some of the features that 8 had, the Task Manager was much nicer and I'd gotten used to just going to the Metro screen and typing the first few letters of whatever application I was looking for. Hadn't gone to 8.1 because apparently driver support wasn't complete for the AlienFX keyboard on my model according to Dell, but maybe I'll give it a shot anyway. Both 7 and 8 fly on my 3 year old i7 with an SSD though, no complaints about performance here.

[commodorejohn]

The graph looks quite different if you add Windows 8 & 8.1 figures together, so you can tell he wasn't even trying to be objective about it.

Yes, the graph certainly would look different if no sales of 8.1 were from someone upgrading from the horror that was vanilla 8.

[SysAdmin]

@commodorejohn

The chart also does not take into consideration all the customers that immediately install Windows 7 on machines they buy with Win8 and 8.1. A substantial number of people do this but they are still counted as Win8.x owners in charts. Tons of enterprise customers do this as well. Get boatloads of Win8 PC's and reimage to Windows 7 before they are deployed in the company. I remember when I worked for BofA as an IT Consultant long ago. BofA bought thousands of HP machines that came with 2000/XP but the machines were reimaged with NextStep for x86 to run a custom proprietary banking applications. All the machines still had a valid XP License that was never used. I suggested they just buy the machines without 2000/XP to save money  but they said a contract with Microsoft and or HP prevented this.

[psxphill]

Yes, the graph certainly would look different if no sales of 8.1 were from someone upgrading from the horror that was vanilla 8.

You lose the argument immediately by using emotive language purely to cover up your inaccuracies. People upgrading to 8.1 don't count as sales of 8.1, this is the whole reason they should be added together as buying 8 or 8.1 you're likely to end up running 8.1. I'm not sure if he did it on purpose or whether it's a happy coincidence that it helped his argument but it's subverting the facts.
 

Tons of enterprise customers do this as well. Get boatloads of Win8 PC's and reimage to Windows 7 before they are deployed in the company.

I've never heard of an enterprise do that, they usually buy their computers without an os. Even when windows 7 was the latest and they would be running windows 7. MAK keys used to only be used for really big companies as they were effectively unbounded & the only security was that the person who had the key wouldn't give it to their mates. With Vista they switched to KMS and every company can use that now, so your 2000/XP anecdote is no longer relevant. Maybe a small company that doesn't know how to buy a machine with windows 7 or os-less will do as you say.
 

Hadn't gone to 8.1 because apparently driver support wasn't complete for the AlienFX keyboard on my model according to Dell, but maybe I'll give it a shot anyway.

I'd be surprised if the windows 8 driver didn't just work, even windows 7 drivers will usually work. There aren't many differences in the driver model. XP graphics drivers are no longer supported and they do work on windows 7, so on really old hardware you might not have noticed you were running an xp driver. If this affects you then you'll be stuck with the generic super vga driver, but your graphics hardware is probably not that powerful anyway.

[Duce]

SysAdmin, if you are claiming that an enterprise situation would order a new fleet of PC's with Windows 8 installed and "roll back" to 7, you've never so much as stepped a toe into the trade.  I've seen you make a lot of silly statements, but this one takes the cake.  What company in their right mind is ordering machines single OEM style with an OS they do not want then rolling back to W7?  When you can buy the machines with *NO* OS, and deal with MS on volume license for pennies on the dollar on any version of Windows you wanted?  Why would they dick around?  They wouldn't, and they aren't, never have.  You or I can order a PC with 8 OR 7, or no OS at all if need be.  Enterprise don't buy hardware  with an OS installed when they can just group license the OS from MS for far cheaper.

Company I subcontract for just deployed new laptops to over 2,000 technicians.  Not one came with 8 installed.  In fact, not one came with *ANY* OS installed.  They came as bare hardware and the IT guys rolled out the whole shebang from a very large, very fast server that installed the OS and every little other specific thing from AD setup to ID card software without doing anything more than rolling an image file onto the bare drive. Takes a few minutes over gigabit ethernet to image a new system to a PC with an SSD, tops.  They all run Win 7, for the record - just like all enterprise systems, they are always (and wisely) one gen back.  The hardware vendor supplied no OS on the machines at all.

People in the industry REALLY DO NOT have an admin running around with a box of 2,000 W7 cd's to install on a system with w8 on it, because they aren't ordering an OS on the machines.  If you know someone in an enterprise situation that is ordering bulk computers with W8 then hauling ass around installing 7 on them, that man should be executed on principle alone and forced out of the IT industry.

There's no guy screaming bloody murder about the evils of W8 in the enterprise world, because quite frankly more enterprise customers are just rolling on to Win SEVEN and tons are still on XP.  In fact, the people that outright buy the latest OS in OEM form are very, very slim.  MS themselves will tell you that the vast majority of Win 8 users are general users that got the OS on a new machine they bought, vs. guys "upgrading" their existing W7 or XP PC's to 8.  Very few people storm out the door to buy the latest and greatest OS for their existing machines - even Apple know this, which is why the last 2 revs of OS X are entirely free.  Apple make more cash off the ecosystem than they ever would on $20 OS upgrades - their adoption rate of the latest and greatest would be on par with Win 8 if people had to pay for it, something the press always leaves out.  Win 8 is a $100+ OS, where as OS X upgrades are free - pretty glaring who's going to have the better numbers.  Windows 8 is not even on the radar for enterprise, most would still be running XP is MS didn't kill support for it.  Enterprise is always 1 if not 2 gens behind.  Hell, some of the companies I subcontract for still have Win 2000 and 2003 machines in production roles if they aren't too close to the shiny side of things..

On a final note?  How do you Apple apologists feel about Microsoft Bing being the standard for OS X Yosemite search?  Gotta sting, I bet - the Great Satan MS now being the go to guy by default for Apple search wise

I do love how every post of yours is absolutely linkbaited for maximum clickthroughs, though  Ever notice that, people?  Every mention of "windows" or ipad" or "iphone" gets a link?    Don't begrudge a guy trying to pay the bills, but be subtle, eh?  Hope this post of mine shows someone a real nice crossbow scope to buy via those hacks at DealTime based from a Windows topiclink.

[Niding]

With regards to Windows;

Ive used Windows 2000, XP and Windows 7 +vista on my old laptop.

The last few months Ive been using Windows 8 on my main Stationary, and I find that is getting more frustrating to use over time.
Windows 7 I find easier to navigate, tho the search function of Win 8 is quite powerful and useful.
I share the misgivings of the people missing the Start button/menu.

I was sitting here today wondering if I should take a few hours off my day and reinstall Windows 7 on my computer, but decided Id rather just do a "how to make win 8 feel like 7" session instead.
Installed Classic Shell, which give you the start button, and already now I feel much more comfortable. You can also disable the Metro screen. Pure bliss.
So, for now Win 8 will remain on my main computer, but overall I dont really like it.
Hopefully the simple addition of Start Menu will fix that impression.

I have several friends that are quite heavy computer users (IT workers) and they enjoy Windows 8, so its a personal preferance.

For me it seems like the rule of every second incarnation of windows is Great and the following complete rubbish holds true. So I cant wait for Windows 9
Tho, I suspect the rise of Steam OS and Linux in general will eventually push me in that direction.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/183445-windows-8-start-menu-resurrection-delayed-until-next-version-of-windows-in-2015

[Duce]

Don't tell the masses the truth, they hate that!  

Yes, you can turn Metro off entirely, people.  Easy peasy, a couple clicks.  I don't begrudge anyone disliking W8, but the witch hunt stuff is just hysterical.

YOU CAN OPT TO NEVER SEE "METRO" AT ALL AGAIN ONCE YOU DEFAULT TO DESKTOP MODE.  

[Niding]

Don't tell the masses the truth, they hate that!  

Yes, you can turn Metro off entirely, people.  Easy peasy, a couple clicks.  I don't begrudge anyone disliking W8, but the witch hunt stuff is just hysterical.

YOU CAN OPT TO NEVER SEE "METRO" AT ALL AGAIN ONCE YOU DEFAULT TO DESKTOP MODE.  

Yep, and getting metro back on again is supereasy too incase you need it back for whatever reason.

Btw Duce, you cant ever post again since you have reached .:Posts: 1,337:. ^^ :-D

[gertsy]

Let's talk about the Surface 3 Pro's crappy i3.  What does crappy mean?   Well an I3 Intel processor in a HD device weighing 800gms.  That is pretty crappy when you think of it.

[psxphill]

Installed Classic Shell, which give you the start button, and already now I feel much more comfortable.

Can you express that objectively?
 
I installed various start menu hacks in the beta versions and when doing RTM installs. I was reinstalling multiple times to get nice clean installs, rather than install a load of software figure out what works well and then uninstall the rest.
 
What I found was that I got lazy and eventually couldn't be bothered to install a start menu anymore and just got on with learning how to find stuff in Windows 8, because it was easier than installing an extra piece of software if I was just going to nuke it again.
 
My usage pattern probably doesn't match yours, which is why I'm interested in what you find more comfortable.
 
Classic Shell lost me with their customer testimonies and when I couldn't find a US registration for the trademark.