Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Iridium Banner AMIStore App Store A1200/A600 4xIDE Interface

AuthorTopic: Attacking my first idea as a scam...  (Read 3839 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AmigaClassicRule

Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« on: May 12, 2014, 04:14:59 AM »
(Moderators note: Thread is referring to the following failed crowd-sourcing campaign = https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/amiga-portable-console )


You guys attacked my first idea as some sort of scam. Honestly, that was not my intention...I am very new in the concept of project and having someone to donate money to make the project a successful. I am no artist and have no idea the financial requirement to make this project and have no idea the difficult and actually the demand behind it.

This is why ones the first donation from indiegogo stops the money will be returned to everyone who donated to that project. But this time I want to do it right from the start.

I have an idea for another project and instead of throwing some two lines of drawing and throw my idea and some random number for donation I want to do it here first correctly. I want to throw my idea first, see the demand behind it and ask for help for people who are good at 3D rendering and then get a statistically number of an accurate amount required to make this project happen. I want to see if people like it and if this is something should even be done. I am no scammer and nor do I want to take people's money and run away with it.


So here is my idea!

I want to develop a complete 8-bit system that have a sexy keyboard case just like an A500, C64c or MSX Wavy. This computer however is different in that it have two cartridge slot and the slot inside of it allows you to hook up an MSX game or NES game and you can play either NES or MSX games into this computer. The computer have the 6502 CPU in it and it allows you to play MSX, C64, Apple II, and NES games all in one shot. There will be VIC II, SID and all the other chips in it. I also realized that MSX, C64 and Apple II all use BASIC as a programming language.

This computer will have a special BASIC that have all the similar commands of these three systems plus the commands of those three systems in one BASIC language. This means you can run all BASIC games or apps from these systems in this one without needing to modify the program or port it for this machine. It will have all the RAMs and registries of each of these three different systems in place with this new system..thus all programs for NES, C64, Apple II and MSX will run natively on this machine without the required need of emulation in any regard.

If you put the 1541 disk drive on this machine it will run c64 games on it using this new BASIC OS for this machine. If I hook an apple ii disk drive external and turn the computer on..it will boot from the apple ii disk drive and run any apple ii programs natively in this machine. If I put a NES cartridge or MSX cartridge it will boot directly from that cartridge first.

Also with this BASIC program you can develop NES programs and compile it for the real NES..it will compile the program in .NES rom image and then you can use it on real NES or emulator NES. I am thinking of having a special BASIC OS to make development easier. Now this is all ideas I am putting it here and I am wondering what you guys think? Do you like it? Give me your ideas, input, how to start such project and if someone really likes the idea; then I would really like a 3D render to help me render good looking case and so on...

Any input would be nice...
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 09:20:06 AM by SysAdmin »
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2014, 07:36:38 AM »
The Amiga can do that already. Just use an A1200 with emulator installed.
Go Go Gadget Signature!
 

Offline Britelite

Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2014, 07:54:13 AM »
Quote

Any input would be nice...

Dreaming is nice, but that's all you idea will ever be: a dream.
 

Offline rvo_nl

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2006
  • Posts: 859
  • Total likes: 0
Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2014, 08:44:30 AM »
I like ideas, so dont get me wrong. Even if they seem ambitious. Technical issues aside, I dont think there would be a big demand for a multi-platform console. retro enthusiasts will get the individual consoles for nostalgia value. and you wont attract many 'new' customers, tbh. In fact, I doubt your device would sell more than 10 units, and Im afraid you need a lot more than that to make it commercially viable.

Last, just because devices share the same cpu or have similarities in basic, this doesnt mean they are easily made compatible. After all, games did not get programmed in basic and a lot of consoles have custom hardware. If you really want to proceed, then look at the Chameleon64 device: no cartridge slot there, but able to load disk/cartridge images, and the ability to act as an Amiga, C64 and whatnot, all from the same device.
Amiga 1200 (1d4) Kickstart 3.1 (40.68), Elbox Power/Winner tower (450w psu), BlizzardPPC 603e+ @240mhz & 060 @50mhz, 256MB, Bvision, IDE-fix Express, IndivisionAGA, 120GB IDE, cd, dvd, Cocolino, Micronik Keycase, PCMCIA Ethernet, Ratte monitor switcher, Prelude1200, triple boot WB3.1 / OS3.9 / OS4.1, Win95 / MacOS8.1
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
  • Total likes: 0
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2014, 08:48:26 AM »
Start with a known platform, I suggest a RasperryPi (because it's cheap, plentiful and capable of what you want to do). Then assemble the emulators required and the write an app that ties the emulators together, in the way you want. It will essentially be an app launcher, which perhaps can offer a "BASIC" command line OS function.

-edit- perhaps you could start your project with this: http://cbmbasic.sourceforge.net

Next build the cart interface, I would suggest using a microcontroller like the Teensy 3.1, as it has enough IO to interface with an 8bit Cart and can send the data over USB, which will be much easier to interface with your software part should you change platforms.

-edit- I forgot to mention that the Teensy 3.1 is also 5V safe, making it perfect for interfacing with old Electronics from the 80s.

Sounds like a fun hobby project. Certainly, it has no commercial value.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 09:00:07 AM by bloodline »
 

Offline IanP

Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 08:58:41 AM »
You do know that the MSX computers were Z80 machines not 6502 right?

Who wants cartridge slot loading computers or consoles these days? Games and other software comes in the form of files you download from the internet in the 21st century.

Are you thinking of some kind of hybrid machine that is compatible with MSX, C64, NES and Apple II all at the same time with a single hardware configuration and OS? If you are then good luck with that because I'm no expert on these various platforms but I strongly suspect the inherent incompatibilities are enormous and insurmountable.

The differences between the various dialects of 8 bit BASICs often reflect the differences in the architectures, operating systems and expansion options. The BASIC interpreter and OS takes up a large chunk of the address space on these machines for the ROM image. A hybrid version would inevitably be much larger.

Does anybody actually want an MSX, C64, NES, Apple II hybrid computer apart from yourself AmigaClassicRule? Wouldn't most people prefer to use emulators of those machines or perhaps FPGA implementations on an MCC216, Chameleon 64 or Replay?
 

Offline gaula92

Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 10:33:17 AM »
@IanP: I clearly prefer FPGA computers instead of old hardware. They are exactly the same externally.
As for software emulation, my experience is very bad, with laggy controls, wrong resolutions and hard to configure perfectly smooth scrolls in 50Hz modes. With FPGA computers I didn't have any of these problems, they are exactly the same as a 80's-90's Amiga (if you take the Minimig, for example).

Software emulation depends too much on the underlying OS and most moder oses are unpredictable, so emulation is FAR from perfect and it will never be. So FPGAs for me without thinking :)
 

Offline Iggy

Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2014, 11:28:11 AM »
I see hope in simpler FPGA devices like Grant's MultiComp.

http://searle.hostei.com/grant/Multicomp/

With a few additional chips this could do something like what you are suggesting.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2014, 11:35:52 AM »
@Gaula92
You should try the latest Winfellow. There is no input lag whatsoever. Excellent for all the platformer games.
It is still beta and will crash except for a few configs.
I've found that using the AmigaForever roms, and leaving only one floppy drive enabled is very stable. 020 28mhz or 68k 7mhz. Played for hours without crashing.
Go Go Gadget Signature!
 

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
  • Total likes: 0
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2014, 12:52:25 PM »
I'll try to say this as respectfully as possible - I do know you have good intentions with this, but surely you can see why people were attacking it?

You've come here, many times - asking very "green" questions.  One recently was something simple like how to install a .library file on your real Amiga.  Another was some basic info about '060 chips.  That's great, and that's what A.org is for - getting answers.  But...

Fast forward a few weeks, add one copy of MS Paint for your mock up of the device - and you're now a hardware engineer and software, capable of custom making chips, programming unique new operating system functions.    Talking as if you duct taped together a 6502, a 68000, SID chips, stuff them in a shoebox, paint a controller on the shoebox and cut a few cartridge slots into it and call it a consumer ready product.

It doesn't really work that way.  I didn't see your initial idea as a scam, per se - but I imagine many did.  Drawing up a rectangle in MS paint, tacking the Amiga checkmark on it doesn't make it a viable product, and it doesn't make you a software or hardware engineer capable of even putting the basics behind this dream device together.  

Sorry, just how I see it.
 

Offline commodorejohn

Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2014, 12:55:24 PM »
Quote from: IanP;764286
Who wants cartridge slot loading computers or consoles these days? Games and other software comes in the form of files you download from the internet in the 21st century.
You do realize you're posting on an Amiga forum, right?
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline Boot_WB

Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2014, 01:03:17 PM »
@Duce

+1 billion

@Atheist (I mean AmigaClassicRule)

For a moment consider, had you reached your funding target, what would you do next?

What is the detailed plan? what are the costs? what challenges are to be faced? which competent people do you have on board who have the necessary skills to take this vague concept and turn it into a reality?

That's why it's been labelled as a scam: You're asking other people to donate their money to your "project" with absolutely no idea how to manage that pot of other people's money effectively in order to create a product.

You may not be deliberately trying to profit from it yourself, but you clearly do not have any clue as to how to proceed even if you did get the money. You do not have the competencies required to do what you propose, yet you are asking people for money.

If not deliberate scam, then this is at least the equivalent of a dodgy quote from a cowboy builder.
Mac Mini G4 (1.5GHz, 64MB VRam, 1GB Ram): MorphOS 3.6
Powerbook 5.8 (15", 1.67GHz, 128MB VRam, 1GB Ram): MorphOS 3.8.

Windows-free since 2011-2014 (Damn you Netflix!)
 

Offline spirantho

Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2014, 01:20:08 PM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;764278
The computer have the 6502 CPU in it and it allows you to play MSX, C64, Apple II, and NES games all in one shot. There will be VIC II, SID and all the other chips in it.


Forgetting for a moment the massive complexity of putting all the chips in one box, where will you get these VIC-II and SID chips from?

I can see what you're trying to do, but honestly - there is so much more you need to know before you can even start thinking about this.

Start from the bottom and go upwards - don't start with massive expectations and cut back.
Begin with a low-cost, simple platform which just does one thing. Then add features until done. In other words: walk before you try to run. At the moment you're trying to do a full Irish Riverdance before you've learned how to toddle.

Hasn't this already been done by other consoles anyway? I'm sure there's at least one cartridge-loading console which uses FPGAs and software emulation for everything (the only practical way of doing it).

I'm not trying to unduly criticise you - I know you're not a scammer and have genuine interests at heart, but you'd be well advised to thoroughly study how a computer works before trying to make a new one.
--
Ian Gledhill
ian.gledhill@btinternit.com (except it should be internEt of course...!)
Check out my shop! http://www.mutant-caterpillar.co.uk/shop/ - for 8-bit (and soon 16-bit) goodness!
 

Offline ElPolloDiabl

Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2014, 01:48:11 PM »
Have you checked out the NES scene just google that.
What you want is tiny Linux install around 60MB make sure it has one of the GUI desktops. Install every emulator there is.
Time required: A couple of hours, plus more if you need to learn the emulators.
Price: $0.05 $5 if you want to install with USB stick.
Go Go Gadget Signature!
 

Offline Calimeiro

Re: Attacking my first idea as a scam...
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2014, 02:43:05 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;764293
You do realize you're posting on an Amiga forum, right?

So what's your point? That this forum is for 8-bit machines using 5.25" discs or cartridges?