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Author Topic: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator  (Read 21389 times)

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Offline psxphill

Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2014, 12:47:39 AM »
Quote from: Fats;764254
People who want a PPC Amiga-like OS with seamless running of m68k software can already use MorphOS or AOS4.

MorphOS and AOS4 aren't equivalent though. Doesn't the different padding also mean that PPC software that runs on MorphOS or AOS4 can't ever be compatible with AROS either?
 
It seems that decision marginalises AROS PPC.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2014, 01:22:49 AM »
So to quote Sam Raimi, "Join US".
I tried to lure Staf over, but he's too busy with AROS X86.

When you compare X86 and PPC AROS, the latter does seem pointless.
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Offline ElPolloDiablTopic starter

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2014, 02:47:10 AM »
No. You can run AROS on an old Mac. He didn't mention that was the target platform.
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Offline Fats

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2014, 07:19:28 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;764342
I tried to lure Staf over, but he's too busy with AROS X86.


I hate to say it but recently my interests went to things not directly (NG) Amiga related. Things like RTL hardware programming, Cypress PSoC device, etc.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2014, 03:38:51 AM »
Quote from: Fats;764390
I hate to say it but recently my interests went to things not directly (NG) Amiga related. Things like RTL hardware programming, Cypress PSoC device, etc.

Understandable. I have been working on everything from 8 bit projects to FPGA programming.
But then, my NG of choice is pretty stable.

I don't know if everyone here knows how much time you've devoted to AROS.
I'm on the mailing lists, so I'm aware of how much you've contributed.
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Offline skolman

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #64 on: August 18, 2014, 04:12:07 PM »
Quote from: matthey;763979
In other news Gunnar, Jens and Chris just tested the new Phoenix Demo on Majsta's Vampire 600 using ECS chipset, 16 bit fast memory and a too small Cyclone II fpga:

http://www.apollo-core.com/bringup/roto64.jpg

Not only is the demo working but that 31 in the upper left hand corner is the frames per second (fps).

(...)

A600/Phoenix = 31 fps

(...) The Phoenix demo is here:

http://www.apollo-core.com/phoenix_demo4

MorphOS 1.4.5 A1200 AGA BlizzardPPC = 500 fps

phoenix_demo4.jpg

;)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 08:45:42 PM by skolman »
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Offline Romanujan

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #65 on: August 18, 2014, 05:16:58 PM »
Why do you still want the PowerPC? Look here:

http://www.7-cpu.com/

The fastest G5 is not that much faster than Cortex A-15. But the G5 takes 75-100W power... and it doesn't seem there is going to be a successor.

What the PowerPC Amiga is going to look in 5 years? 3000$ machine with half the processing power of 300$ cell phone? Or maybe POWER8 monster so expensive, that hardly anyone can afford it, where using more than 1 core or more than 2GB RAM would require apps written in some strange, inefficient way - just to allow the system to maintain binary compatibility with legacy software ? Don't be silly - PowerPC is a dead end, ditch that bitch!

There are two reasonable ways to go: x86 and ARM. And don't even think about OS4/MorphOS-style m68k compatibility! We need multicore support. And 64 bit - 2GB RAM is what my tablet has, I really expect a desktop (even thin desktop) machine to have more (reasonable minimum for the photo processing software I use is 64-bit system with 4GB RAM...). This means API rework, so AROS-style would be the only possible way to achieve m68k compatibility. Help Toni Willen to integrate QEMU into UAE, and you will also be able to have PowerPC compatibility in a similar way.
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Offline biggun

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2014, 05:41:49 PM »
Quote from: Romanujan;771116

Or maybe POWER8 monster so expensive, that hardly anyone can afford it, where using more than 1 core or more than 2GB RAM


The Power8 box, that I daily work on has 4 Terra byte main memory :-)
Now what?
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Offline Romanujan

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2014, 05:52:47 PM »
So what? How much did this Power8 box cost? Will the average Amiga fan be able to buy it (afford it)? How can the current AmigaOS software use the potential of this machine? How much potential can you use by utilizing current API/ABI?

One more thing - we also need memory protection and multiuser. Ultimately, a way to run ARM software on x86 or vice-versa using the JIT engine (QEMU again?). Sorry - XXI'th century...
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Offline biggun

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2014, 06:24:14 PM »
Quote from: Romanujan;771119

So what? How much did this Power8 box cost?

Over $100,000

And yes this box is big and has 80 cores , and _no_ Amiga OS does not support it.

There a big POWER machines build today and also bought for a lot of money.
So POWER is by far not dead.


What your interest is in "very small" machines.
And yes in this segment there are currently not really POWER offerings.
All new POWER systems that are sold in the last years a real big systems.


But POWER is now "open".
You know this right?
This means "Mr Chinese company" could take a POWER Chips design today
and tomorrow sell a POWER based laptop, or netbook or what ever.
This could happen or maybe not - I don't know - you don't know.

What I would not do here - is running now around and tell the people that build hardware for a living - what they should do.

Believe me the people have choosen PPC for their systems for a reason.
Whether this reason is valid today - maybe - maybe not.
But anywhich way these people will be totally aware of all this.
And do not need yours or mine advice.

So save your breath... You will anyway not change anything with it.
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Offline yssing

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2014, 07:51:01 PM »
Quote from: Romanujan;771116
Why do you still want the PowerPC? Look here:

http://www.7-cpu.com/

- PowerPC is a dead end, ditch that bitch!.


No, and repeating it over and over again wount make it any more true.
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Offline Romanujan

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2014, 09:30:28 PM »
Quote from: biggun;771121
Over $100,000

And yes this box is big and has 80 cores , and _no_ Amiga OS does not support it.

There a big POWER machines build today and also bought for a lot of money.
So POWER is by far not dead.


What your interest is in "very small" machines.

Because I'm just a poor, simple guy -  there is no way I can spend $100,000 on a home machine. Core i7 4790k (one chip, no more) based PC is really the maximum I could possibly afford.

Quote from: biggun;771121
But POWER is now "open".
You know this right?
This means "Mr Chinese company" could take a POWER Chips design today
and tomorrow sell a POWER based laptop, or netbook or what ever.
This could happen or maybe not - I don't know - you don't know.

Quote from: biggun;771121
Believe me the people have choosen PPC for their systems for a reason.

Believe me - no "Mr Chinese company" is currently selling a POWER based laptop for a reason. AmigaOS / MorphOS teams can either wait till this happen ("two more weeks"?), or use the currently available chips. What do you think, which choice is more likely to result in a product ready to sell?

Even if we would have such a Power chip at affordable price and decent performance - what changes would the AmigaOS / MorphOS need to fully utilize its capabilities? Would it be possible to keep the current API, or maybe some big jump would be needed, comparable to ARM/x86 migration?
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Offline jj

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2014, 09:48:42 PM »
MorphOS does not need to wait.  Already have laptops that can run the OS for some time
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Offline Romanujan

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #72 on: August 18, 2014, 10:00:12 PM »
Great! Where can I buy a brand new one?
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Offline jj

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #73 on: August 18, 2014, 10:33:14 PM »
You cant buy brand new hardware for MorphOS. anymore. Good isn't it.  Makes it much much much much cheaper.
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Offline Romanujan

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Re: ARM or x86 with FPGA emulator
« Reply #74 from previous page: August 18, 2014, 10:48:54 PM »
If these laptops are 10 years old PPC Macs, then go back to post #66.
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