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Offline LurchTopic starter

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Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #44 from previous page: April 10, 2014, 08:17:19 AM »
After reading up on it I might give it a miss, there's a few other things missing compared to a tower :-/
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Offline amoskodare

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Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2014, 05:58:34 PM »
@Lurch

My advice would be, keep your A1200 (if you can) and buy a Sam440ep-flex or a Sam460ex if you want a faster one, AmigaOS 4.1 fully upgraded to Update 6 :)

No patches needed there, it's all included in OS4 by default already :P...
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Offline Rob

Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2014, 08:08:21 PM »
Contrary to what others have said, I sold my A1200 Blizzard 1260, Mediator etc and have no regrets (well maybe I could have got more money) but I do of course have a Minimig, CD32 and an A500 with an 020.

However an AGA only A1200 with an 030 is a nice games machine.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 08:18:40 PM by Rob »
 

Offline Rob

Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2014, 08:17:56 PM »
I wouldn't bother with a BPPC, complete waste of money since it can cost as much or more than a Sam440 and won't be as fast.  NG is definitely better for RTG stuff than than any 68k based system.  

In my experience OS4 and MorphOS are far better than AROS for everyday use(admittedly I have burnt off an AROS boot CD for a while but when I do it only ever gets booted once).  

A PPC Mac can be picked up cheaply and good deals on OS4 can sometimes  be found too.  

OS4 looks and feels closer to 3.x (more Amiga like) than MorphOS but some people prefer MorphOS so if you can get a chance to use them before laying down any money it would be good to see which you prefer.

If you can pick up a compatible PPC Mac for under £100 just go for it anyway.  The trial version of MorphOS is free to use and if you don't like it you should have much trouble getting your money back by selling it.
 

Offline LurchTopic starter

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Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2014, 08:20:23 PM »
@amoskodare - How do you find your setup with the Sam440ep-flex? I was originally looking at that exact same spec setup. The price is about right and it appears to be the best OS4 bundle for the price.

@Rob - 3rd time round buying and selling, always get a pang of nostalgia and buy again. Loosing a lot of money doing that. Will hold on to the 1200 :-)
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Offline som99

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Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2014, 12:48:28 AM »
Quote from: Lurch;762305
@amoskodare - How do you find your setup with the Sam440ep-flex? I was originally looking at that exact same spec setup. The price is about right and it appears to be the best OS4 bundle for the price.


I have a sam440ep-flex also, to be honest I use my Mac Mini with MorphOS a lot more, but the sam440 is fast enough or my OS4 needs, I got it at a great price so I do not regret buying it :)
 

Offline danwood

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Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2014, 01:47:02 AM »
Quote from: Lurch;762305
@amoskodare - How do you find your setup with the Sam440ep-flex? I was originally looking at that exact same spec setup. The price is about right and it appears to be the best OS4 bundle for the price.

@Rob - 3rd time round buying and selling, always get a pang of nostalgia and buy again. Loosing a lot of money doing that. Will hold on to the 1200 :-)

Not wanting to sway you too much, but as others have said, try before you buy.  I speak objectively as an OS4 and MorphOS user, a Sam 440 is too slow for me to be comfortable with at 400-667mhz and with just one PCI slot (which you'll fill with a graphics card) there isn't really any expandability over say a Mac Mini (which is more than double, if not triple the speed).  Heck, I even find my A1XE a bit too slow at 933mhz, watching the CPU meter spike up to 100% whenever I load a more than basic web page or open programs etc, even taking a screenshot sends it way up, I certainly feel the difference between my 1.5ghz mini and my A1XE.  On the Sam 440 you're not going to have much joy with video files and DVD playback.

At the end of the day, it's really down to OS4 or MorphOS, personally I use both and like Som99 above me, I also spend a lot more time in MorphOS these days, I found development on the OS4 at OS level seemed to have slowed a lot in the last year where as MorphOS has jumped 4 major revisions, most of the recent major components like Odyssey, MUI 4, MPlayer etc. all have the latest versions on MorphOS and are backported to OS4 some time later, also a big part of my "NG" experience is using old Amiga apps too, I find the ones I use regularly seem to work better and have more compatibility in MorphOS.  I also find it more stable and get less crashes, although that's more than likely down to the instability and flakyness of the A1XE board.

I will say OS4 does feel more like OS3 as it still uses Workbench, but if that's a major thing for you, you can always replace ambient with Workbench if you wanted, I personally like Ambient now I know my way around it though, Workbench feels bit basic in comparison.

No flame wars from me, you make up your own mind, but I used OS4 for years and since my A1XE got flakier over the years I was looking to replace it, for a decent OS4 experience I needed a SAm 460 or X1000, the cheapest option of which was still close to a grand.   I used OS4 daily from 2007-2011 and would have loved an X1000 but the bank balance (and the missus) ruled that one out, since getting my Mini in 2011 I've grown to prefer the experience anyway.

You would certainly be happier with a Sam 440 than a classic PPC card, but don't write off MorphOS just because you don't like the look of a Powermac G4 (which will likely be hidden under your desk anyway, or put it in a new case?) or the Mac Mini G4, not sure what limitations put you off the mini but I can't say I notice any.

Another option would be a used Pegasos 2, you can run both on that machine, iirc there's one on Amibay at the moment for 600 euro.

Just my 2c.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 02:00:59 AM by danwood »
 

Offline NovaCoder

Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2014, 03:53:49 AM »
MorphOS looks very polished but it just doesn't interest me that much.   I could buy a used Mac and get it up and running cheaply but I don't think I'd actually use it much.   Same story with OS4 on NG but the entry fee is much higher.  Upgrading a Classic machine to run OS4 appears to be a very frustrating experience from what I've read.

I think I'll just stick with my Classic AGA machine for a while.  I'll have to replace it one day though, prob with either A3000/A500/FPGA/WinUAE
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Offline Tenacious

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Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2014, 03:59:34 AM »
Quote from: danwood;762322

I will say OS4 does feel more like OS3 as it still uses Workbench, but if that's a major thing for you, you can always replace ambient with Workbench if you wanted, I personally like Ambient now I know my way around it though, Workbench feels bit basic in comparison.


I bought MorphOS about a year ago and loaded it on a Quicksilver G4 to try it.  It seems plenty fast and responsive.   I haven't used it much because it was much less Amiga-like than I expected out of the box.  There seems to be software, themes, palettes, icons, etc for it, but, I haven't had time (Linux is starting to fascinate me!) to sorted thru the mass of it to find a familiar Amiga environment.  Did anyone compile a list of OS3.9 add-ons for folks like me who are easily disoriented by Ambient?

I've never tried OS4.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 04:03:50 AM by Tenacious »
 

Offline danwood

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Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2014, 09:22:23 AM »
Quote from: Tenacious;762329
I bought MorphOS about a year ago and loaded it on a Quicksilver G4 to try it.  It seems plenty fast and responsive.   I haven't used it much because it was much less Amiga-like than I expected out of the box.  There seems to be software, themes, palettes, icons, etc for it, but, I haven't had time (Linux is starting to fascinate me!) to sorted thru the mass of it to find a familiar Amiga environment.  Did anyone compile a list of OS3.9 add-ons for folks like me who are easily disoriented by Ambient?

I've never tried OS4.


It's pretty old, but it may still work?

http://aminet.net/package/docs/help/AmigaWBOnPegasos
 

Offline LurchTopic starter

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Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2014, 10:11:28 AM »
So I tried MorphOS on a Quicksilver box, apart from the on board sound everything was supported.
It's very quick, was frustrated a little trying to navigate around, there are some things that are similar to workbench but other things that are not.
I installed Pack Chrysalis which uses about 55MB of VRAM LOL so had to remove some items. Tried a couple of games and browsed around with OWB it all works as advertised, quick too!

It's a very polished OS and has come a long way since I installed 2.7. It's an amazing OS and stands on it's own two feet well. But I just couldn't get into it, missing my AFA_OS/WB.

The link to aminet with the how to install WB looks interesting, although a little worried that it's from 2005. But doesn't matter I can always reinstall :-)

I lost interest in the mini as locally there were only 32MB versions, however I found a 32MB 1.42GHz one that I've put down a really low bid on  that was too tempting so will see how that goes. Will just have to tweak it as it looks possible after doing some reading to have an okay setup with lower res/VRAM.

I looked at G5 macs too, but again no ATI cards in any of them and looking online people know this and charge the earth.

As for Sam boards these are rare and are out of stock.

I wonder what the X3500 will go for price wise? :-)

Still waiting for Amibay to finish there upgrading too :-/
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Offline amoskodare

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Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2014, 07:07:43 AM »
@Lurch

My Sam flex is pretty responsive, it feels almost faster (honestly) than my Windows box with an i7 CPU at 3.4Ghz and 8 cores (threads).. Unless I'm doing something really CPU-intensive tasks, otherwise it is up for the job.

However, all video decoding, heavy-websurfing, photoshopping, ripping, game-emulation (WinUAE), backuping and all that "heavy" stuff I do on my Win box anyway so CPU power isn't that big issue to me...

On the Sam I mostly code (no prolem here unless I compile a very VERY large C project (almost never)), and play some games, play music and do some "light" browsing (like browsing Amiga-forums and OS4Depot and such) and play around in Workbench and programs and so forth.. But from time to time also fire up heavy Facebook (however m.facebook is pretty snappy) or heavy Gmail to fix something and there it's noted that some more grunt in the CPU department would be very welcome...

> As for Sam boards these are rare and are out of stock.

:S Have you checked http://amigaworld.net/modules/classifieds/

> I wonder what the X3500 will go for price wise? :-)

I wonder that too :) My plan is to buy X5000 once it is released...
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 07:48:11 AM by amoskodare »
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Offline amoskodare

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Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2014, 07:18:44 AM »
Here's a video on my Sam440ep-flex 800MHz and OS4.1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87DeoBqGSeA

I also recommend this video by Dan Wood:

Why use AmigaOS 4 in 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx3q2wFIn6k

And also this:

Why use OS4, MorphOS, AROS or OS3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1RsvEm7UrU
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 07:21:04 AM by amoskodare »
C128 + Action Replay, A500+ (KS1.3/KS2.0), A1200, A1200/040, Amiga Forever 2008+09+2016, Amiga Future subscriber, Nokia N900 (Maemo 5), 5 x86/x64 boxes
AmigaOS 4.1 FEu1 on Sam440ep-flex/800MHz/1GB RAM/Radeon 9250 :afro:
AOS4.1 FE Update 1 for Classic (on WinUAE PPC)
m4rko.com/AMIGA
 

Offline Yasu

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Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2014, 04:19:05 PM »
I would personally say that MorphOS is a system that has to grow on you. But once it has you will probably like it and get used to the things that are different to AmigaOS 3.1. If a perfect copy of the original in structure is most important, AmigaOS 4 or AROS might be a better choice.

And get a PowerMac G5 instead of a Mac Mini if space isn't a problem. Even the low end 2.0 GHz is fast enough for Full HD video and a Radeon 9600 Pro 128 MB VRAM are plentiful and cheap on Ebay. If they aren't already included.
 

Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #58 on: April 14, 2014, 05:02:34 AM »
I don't actually think there is a link at all between Commodore Amigas and Next Gen Amigas to be honest (be it the hardware on PPC boards or OS4/Morph etc) but that is not an insult so no flaming please.

I really only use my Amigas as they were intended, A2000 for coding with the nice keyboard and simple HD option, A1000 for OCS/ECS gaming and a spot of Dpaint and Digi-View and A1200 for Super Stardust and other good AGA games. I also keep a CD32 because there are about 10 AGA games on there that are nice to have without disk swaps...and you can make it boot into WB 3 with various cover CDs.

I always thought trying to make the Amiga do what a 10 dollar Pentium 1 or Playstation 1 does was madness and surely you can put up with the crap 2 mainstream OS choices to just surf the web (use a good browser that suits you, I love Opera myself now Chrome turned to crap) or download/playback various types of media.

Trying to make a NG Amiga into even an old 2009 i7 PC is never going to happen and trying to make a Commodore Amiga of any specification do the same is even more of a challenge. If you enjoy the challenge in either case then I salute your perseverance so again no flaming please. I just find it easier to play Wipeout 2097 on my original release PS1 or endure my OS4 skinned XP Pro machine to watch movies or waste time on pootube :)

I guess I am just lazy and the Amiga now lives with all my other wonderful retro machines in the 'dungeon' rather than my office desk. Sure I could run my business on a C64, let alone my 4.5mb A1000 but that's a no brainer however I will still need to go online to process payments and communicate with my loyal customers so ultimately I just gave in.

What really frustrates me is that in 1988 instead of trying to win various Cinemaware games I should have been programming the worlds first real-estate visually rich and GUI'd system using my A1000, Amos and Digi-view....wow could have made a fortune whilst proving the Amiga even with KS 1.2 was the future that was here and now. Meh, anyone fancy a game of Super Stardust? :)
 

Offline spirantho

Re: Classic VS NG
« Reply #59 on: April 14, 2014, 07:05:40 AM »
Not wanting to sound like a flame, but honest question... why do you not think that OS 4 is the link between the original Amigas and the Next Gen Amigas?  AmigaOS 4 is still AmigaOS at its heart - that's a pretty big link!
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