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[AmigaClassicRule]

Of course I am, because Amiga computers are outdated computers from the past.

But they did go bankrupt, hence the reason why no Amiga computers were produced after the AGA machines, except perhaps in name only (which doesn't count, of course).

Why this need to slap the Amiga name on EVERYTHING? What's wrong with calling a Sam a Sam? Or an X1000 an X1000? Or a Mac with Morph OS a Mac? What's next? A Peecee with Aros is an Amiga, too? Really, I don't get it.

Alright, then assume they did not go bankrupt and they did move away from AGA to PPC and it is now called Amiga X1000 instead of say A5000 or A6000, etc. What is wrong with that? Why are you so bent on enforcing your definition on us? Say we come here and say hey I think X1000 is a real Amiga...that is my opinion, that is my perspective, that makes me happy and in your opinion I am a moron...will here is what I have to say...keep your opinion to yourself...two thinks come in effect:

1) You will be less stressful to yourself, body and your heart and you will live a healthier life.

2) You would not be targeted under attack or hated by people or people find you annoying.

By the way...what is wrong calling AROS an Amiga again?

[ElPolloDiabl]

Amiga OS today would be more like MS Windows. Under a big company at least. It might have ended up on x86 (x64) as well.

You have very very small companies pushing it along as Amiga... Two programmers for the OS???! lol

p.s. It's good enough for me though.

[Thorham]

Alright, then assume they did not go bankrupt and they did move away from AGA to PPC

I won't, because it never happened, and because it never happened it's irrelevant.

Why are you so bent on enforcing your definition on us?

I'm not. Someone asked a question, I answered.

Say we come here and say hey I think X1000 is a real Amiga...that is my opinion

Exactly. It's an opinion, and opinions aren't always facts.

in your opinion I am a moron

Did I say that? No, I didn't, and I didn't imply it, either.

keep your opinion to yourself

So, basically anyone is allowed to say whatever machine is an Amiga, but when you disagree with that, and want to say that only classics are Amigas you have to keep it to yourself? That's a bit odd, isn't it?

2) You would not be targeted under attack or hated by people or people find you annoying.

Not everyone has to like me

By the way...what is wrong calling AROS an Amiga again?

Because it's software. Amigas are hardware. Furthermore, a peecee running Aros is a peecee. Hardware is what it is; it's not defined by what you run on it. Or does an Amiga become a Mac when you run Shapeshifter on it? Does an Amiga become a peecee when you run PCTask on it? Think about it.

[ElPolloDiabl]

Don't forget Amithlon. That was another potential direction for Amiga to take.

[AmigaClassicRule]

I won't, because it never happened, and because it never happened it's irrelevant.


I'm not. Someone asked a question, I answered.


Exactly. It's an opinion, and opinions aren't always facts.


Did I say that? No, I didn't, and I didn't imply it, either.


So, basically anyone is allowed to say whatever machine is an Amiga, but when you disagree with that, and want to say that only classics are Amigas you have to keep it to yourself? That's a bit odd, isn't it?


Not everyone has to like me


Because it's software. Amigas are hardware. Furthermore, a peecee running Aros is a peecee. Hardware is what it is; it's not defined by what you run on it. Or does an Amiga become a Mac when you run Shapeshifter on it? Does an Amiga become a peecee when you run PCTask on it? Think about it.

Then why would you define Ubuntu as Ubuntu regardless of the hardware it is in...but when you define an Amiga you don't define it as a software you define it as a hardware and the hardware it uses is identical to the Mac? Why then can't you define Amiga as Mac instead? After all it is a 68k like Mac and only have AmigaOS installed in it? Sure the hardware is customized it is designed to run just Amiga (chances are Linux too), but it does not change the fact that what they did is the same as MorphOS does with it's hardware. They married the software with the hardware, even though it is a 68k.

If there is any consolidation...mom, my brother and couple of women and men are doing voluntary teaching kids in our country. They are going to take the A500 and use it as an entertainment system for the kids to play with during their lunch break and my A4000D stays with me . I will upload as much as games as possible to the A500 in disk where they can have fun with it.

[AmigaClassicRule]

Amiga OS today would be more like MS Windows. Under a big company at least. It might have ended up on x86 (x64) as well.

You have very very small companies pushing it along as Amiga... Two programmers for the OS???! lol

p.s. It's good enough for me though.

Wait...is it true? There are only two programmers developing for AmigaOS 4.1? Do they have job position for hire?

[Thorham]

Then why would you define Ubuntu as Ubuntu regardless of the hardware it is in

Because Ubuntu is software. Same for, say, Word Perfect. Word Perfect for the peecee is Word Perfect, just like Word Perfect for the Amiga is Word Perfect. It's simply what the software is called.

but when you define an Amiga you don't define it as a software you define it as a hardware

That's because it is hardware.

and the hardware it uses is identical to the Mac?

The CPU is. The rest of the machines aren't the same, except for some generic components perhaps. Having the same CPU doesn't make two computers the same.

Sure the hardware is customized it is designed to run just Amiga

Amigas are designed to be Amigas. Computers that can run anything that's written for them. Just like peecees are designed to be peecees, Macs to be Macs and Atari STs to be Atari STs. What those machines run is completely irrelevant. An Amiga that runs linux is still an Amiga, just like a peecee that runs linux is still a peecee. The machines don't magically change into a linux.

Hardware does not equal software, and Amigas are hardware, period. I find it truly astounding how definitions have to be bent and twisted to fit whatever anyone wants them to be. Back in the Commodore days Amigas were known as computers with OCS/ECS/AGA+68K. Now Amiga has to mean whatever anyone wants.

[persia]

It is what it is, one programmer per thousand users is a very high ratio.

Wait...is it true? There are only two programmers developing for AmigaOS 4.1? Do they have job position for hire?

[AmigaClassicRule]

Where can I send my resume to apply as a programmer?

[ElPolloDiabl]

It is just generic hardware with a PowerPC. They don't make custom hardware anymore.
It would be nice to have all the Amiga specific connectors. e.g. you could add some upgrade cards to the sam460 instead of having to buy a whole new motherboard. It's almost not doable however.

Is more Amiga specific hardware required, not generic stuff?

Add dual boot into PowerPC + emulator, or classic only mode where only 68k things run (plus all the extra add ons.)

[matthey]

No. You are wrong.

Why are you so bent on enforcing your definition on us? Say we come here and say hey I think X1000 is a real Amiga...that is my opinion, that is my perspective, that makes me happy and in your opinion I am a moron...will here is what I have to say...keep your opinion to yourself...

It sounds like you want to have your opinion but you don't want Thorham to have his. Although Thorham may have been interrupting others practicing their freedom of opinion that AmigaOS 4.x and the X1000 is Amiga, I don't think he was trying to be obnoxious or trolling. Perhaps it was an emotional response. This is generally more of a classic forum and some may think that the AmigaOS 4.x guys have come advertising for a few more willing converts. This thread is sneaky (and smart) advertising but does seem to play by the rules.

IMO, I don't think it matters which route C= would have chosen for Amiga. C= went bankrupt with the decisions they made then. It's more important to use the tools and resources available today to make strategic decisions on what the Amiga should do. PPC certainly looked like it had a future at the time it was chosen. It's also big endian which makes it much easier than x86 hardware to convert the Amiga to. I wouldn't want to go the x86 route even today. The 68k is easier and more fun to program and the x86 has flaws (x86 started with 8 bit registers where the 68000 had 32 bit registers). ARM is a preferable Amiga target to me in a lot of ways but the new ARMv8 ISA is similar to PPC (although they didn't go crazy with the instruction names using acronyms and they have more CISC like addressing modes). ARM is bi-endian but more efficient with little endian so PPC is a little better suited for the Amiga in that regard. The big advantage of ARM is that they license the CPU to go into proprietary SoC designs that are fully controlled by the developers. I think this is the future of computing and the best route for the Amiga. PPC is supposedly being licensed in a similar way now also. I don't think Hyperion or A-Eon have the resources or sell enough quantity to make their own PPC SoC though. I believe an enhanced 68k SoC with Amiga custom chips would sell better. Much of the work is already done today while more is being worked on in fpga. The Amiga chipset can be many times faster than AGA and processor speeds can be in excess of the 68060 inside a reasonably priced fpga today. While the performance may be modest at first, the price to performance will be reasonable and improve over time. I would rather bet on the success of fpga technology than PPC technology and Freescale with their C= like financials. Freescale was on the verge of bankruptcy after the 2008/2009 recession with their debt trading for pennies on the dollar in expectation of a bankruptcy.

[Lurch]

The X1000 to me is a step in the right direction. It was marred a little on release with missing drivers etc but to me it was a great achievement.

Is it an Amiga, yes I'd like to say it is. AmigaOS 4.1 looks great. Would I buy one, would like to say yes but it's out of my price bracket.

Would be tempted in selling my two classic Amiga's if it meant being able to purchase one, but even then I'd fall short.

But it would be an option I'd look at.

[spirantho]

. What I would have preferred though that they did like the Mac and skipped PPC and go x86 as Mac have did and still made it a custom hardware that only run OS 4.1. Forget that I want to install OS OS 4.1 beside Windows arguement...my idea that had they skipped PPC and did a custom x86 that cost for manufacturing of expensive CPU which ranges anywhere from 600 to 1000 per CPU would drop the price of the computer from say 3300 to 2300. Bare in mind even modern consoles are going through this route for reason of cost efficiency and easy programming. A CPU IS A CPU....no matter what type of CPU you go...be it AMD, Intel, PPC, 68k, 6502, whatever it is...they all do one and same thing...calculation and execution

That's incorrect, though. CPUs are all different, that's why they went PPC in the first place (same with Apple). Apple went x86 after 10 years or whatever as PPC because they had no choice, they were unable to keep up with PCs' power and it was losing them marketability. Unlike AmigaOS, MacOS had the resources available to do a complete architecture change. We didn't, and still don't. They also were able to convince their fans that BSD with a shiny surface was the Next Big Thing because it was called MacOS X.

Different CPUs have different strengths and weaknesses. Look at Itanium several years ago with x86 - it was very fast in certain areas and completely useless everywhere else. Power chips from IBM are similar, but better - but you wouldn't put one in a console, for instance, because they're designed for servers.

The big reason for not going x86 was endianness. AmigaOS 4 uses AmigaOS 3 as a basis to allow backward compatibility. With x86 this couldn't happen, as AmigaOS 3 binaries would just crash because of the different endianness. To go x86 required a completely clean slate (such as what AROS had) which is why AROS relies on JanusUAE for its legacy compatibility, and that wasn't the objective, which was to update AmigaOS, not replace it.

This is why we use PPC and we can't go x86 - to do so means writing off the entire basis of what AmigaOS 4 is:  an update of AmigaOS.

[AmigaClassicRule]

The X1000 to me is a step in the right direction. It was marred a little on release with missing drivers etc but to me it was a great achievement.

Is it an Amiga, yes I'd like to say it is. AmigaOS 4.1 looks great. Would I buy one, would like to say yes but it's out of my price bracket.

Would be tempted in selling my two classic Amiga's if it meant being able to purchase one, but even then I'd fall short.

But it would be an option I'd look at.

That is the problem I am getting at...we will always fall short to getting the X1000 due to it's price. So who would own it? The more financially set people...so this machine remains as an exotic. But it get worse....to me even if somehow after long struggle I managed to scrab the amount needed and sacrifice soo much classic Amiga to get it...when I have 3.3k it becomes SOOOOOOO painful and very hard to justify spending 3.3k to get it.

That is the problem. BUT IT IS SO HARD even if I am rich or make 100k year...still the very idea to spending 3.3k on a computer is PAINFULLY hard to justify purchase...let alone a computer with an OS4.1 that do not have the larger software library and up to date powerful emulators that Windows bring.

It is hard...hard....hard.....hard. Yet I painfully desire to try the OS4.1 for ones...just to feel it...but I can't. You see the problem?

Is it only X1000 that I find hard spending 3.3k? No. I find spending 3.3k on any computer too much to bare...even if it is a super computer x86...spending 3.3k is hard. Even if it is the best Mac computer out in the world with video card that can't be beat with 60 GB of RAM and 20 TB HD and 40 Ghz 30 core CPU....the idea of spending 3.3k on a computer is....not feasible with me.

Can I spend 80 bucks on a used laptop like ibook g4? Sure. Can I spend 220 dollars on a motherboard with CPU in it, built in video, sound, wifi, etc? Sure.

Can I spend 700 dollars on a full set modern up to date computer? Yes.

But spending 3.3k on a computer? No.

[amigakit]

Just one small point: as stated before in this thread price is not $3.3k, customers outside EU do not pay 20% VAT.

Product Link US:

http://www.amigakit.us/product_info.php?products_id=1071

[gertsy]

So it's hard and not justifiable for many, yourself included, but you just want to try it?
Find a friend with one or live with your choice.
It's human nature to want for something you can't obtain.
I remember having the same feelings when the Amiga came out. I waited almost 4 years before I got a vanilla 2000.

"You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes you just might find, you get what you didn't really want anyway".