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Author Topic: Tips on moving to Linux?  (Read 69770 times)

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Offline Thorham

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #209 from previous page: April 04, 2014, 02:53:06 PM »
Quote from: cgutjahr;761884
That's more or less what he's doing (shrink the Windows XP partition without data loss, install Lubuntu in the free space).
Should do the job :)

Quote from: cgutjahr;761884
I'm really not an expert on Windows, but the way I remember it the original Windows XP had a 128 GB limit. If your install CD already contains SP1, you should be fine, but I think you couldn't create partitions bigger than 128 GB otherwise, you had to 'fix' them with partition magic later on, IIRC.
Really? Didn't know that. My install disk has SP2 on it, so I've never had any issues with HD sizes.
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #210 on: April 04, 2014, 03:17:54 PM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;761862
...The easiest way to install Linux alongside Windows without all the partitioning and @ss pain of losing or accidentally formatting your non-Linux partitions is to use WUBI.  See:  http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/windows-installer

Officially WUBI only supports Ubuntu 12.04 but I've used it on later versions of Linux without any issue...

Yep, best reply so far. WUBI is too cool. Install Ubuntu from within Windows. Painless and easy.
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #211 on: April 04, 2014, 04:43:43 PM »
Quote from: Duce;761877
God Forbid you just click the one radio box in Windows 8 that lets you avoid 99% of the "Metro" features to begin with, John.  :)

Irony is, I'd be willing to wager fair money you wouldn't know the difference between a desktop-only W8 setup (again, ONE CLICK REQUIRED! for boot to desktop mode, avoiding your Pure Evil aversion to Metro) vs. a Windows 7 box if you plunked yourself in front of each of 'em.
Right, I totally wouldn't know the difference if one option was selected, until any time I wanted to pull up the Start menu, which is often. Sure could fool me for all of about fifteen seconds! Geez. I suppose it's only to be expected that with your standard dismissal gone you'd fall back on this kind of weaksauce response...

Quote
But I digress, this is a Linux thread (another super OS in itself) - don't let me put throw a wrench in your alternate reality field :)
I wasn't the one who brought up Windows 8 in this thread - direct your bĂ­tching about that at Kremlar.
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Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #212 on: April 04, 2014, 05:47:30 PM »
Quote from: Duce;761877
Irony is, I'd be willing to wager fair money you wouldn't know the difference between a desktop-only W8 setup (again, ONE CLICK REQUIRED! for boot to desktop mode, avoiding your Pure Evil aversion to Metro) vs. a Windows 7 box if you plunked yourself in front of each of 'em.

Windows 8 desktop is flat, dull, and lifeless, and is missing many of the advanced desktop customization features of Windows 7. Just look for right-click -> Personalize -> Window Color -> Advanced appearance settings, which gives you a whole host of customization features, and have been stripped from W8. Personally I like the 3D, transparent look of Aero, and all its associated features. I would think as an Amigan the first thing you'd notice is the lack of customization in W8. But to each their own, I suppose. ;)

...we actually use this at our office, as part of standard setup for all workstations the appearance is tweaked to best benefit of icon spacing across our multi-monitor desktops. I'm sure this functionality could be duplicated by a 3rd party add-on in W8, but why strip basic features from the OS like this?
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Offline Mr_Bumpy

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #213 on: April 04, 2014, 06:17:26 PM »
Ral-clan, I feel like you've had a lot of info thrown at you, much of it conflicting. I wanted to just summarize a few things for you based on my years of using Linux as my primary OS.

**Distros**
Everybody has their favorite, and no doubt you've heard countless recommendations. My suggestion is to stick with the Ubuntu family when starting out. It's the best supported, and help is easy to find. Mint is not a bad option either, since it is based on Ubuntu and is compatible with all of the same software. If you want to do more exploring later, there are a crap ton of distros out there.

The Ubuntu family of OS's all run from the same software repository (where your programs are pulled from when you install them from the software center), and can run all of the same software. The main difference is the desktop environment that is used. Here is a rundown of the different Ubuntu flavors:

1. Ubuntu: Uses the Unity desktop. This desktop is modern with an eye toward convergence (works well on netbooks, as well as full-blown desktop systems. Might be a bit sluggish on older PCs, especially those with older graphics cards and single-core CPUs. This is probably the most polished out-of-the-box Linux experience of all the Ubuntu variants, and the version I always recommend as a starting point if a person's computer is modern enough for it to run crisply.

2. Kubuntu: Uses the KDE desktop. This is my preferred desktop environment, because it is super-configurable, and the desktop default tools (file manager, text editor, etc.) are the best in their class, IMO. KDE uses up a fair amount of RAM, and while it can be sluggish on older PCs, is quite configurable in its system usage.

3. Xubuntu: Uses the XFCE desktop. This is my preferred desktop for older PCs. It uses more RAM than Lubuntu, but otherwise is much more fully-featured and easily configurable. The applications run quite speedy on a system like what you are using. LXDE's control panel and file manager, etc. are all quite good. On systems with slow graphics cards, turning off "compositing" (which is what draws shadows and transparency effects) will give you a nice performance boost. I'm really surprised that nobody has mentioned Xubuntu as an option for you, as I think it would be a more ideal balance of features/resource consumption for your particular PC.

4. Lubuntu: This is the lightest-weight Ubuntu variant. Personally, I miss a lot of the features and ease of configurability of other desktops, particularly XFCE and KDE. With Lubuntu, certain things aren't as easily changed without editing config files, etc, whereas XFCE has more point-and click configuration options. That being said, none of the other options will be more spry than Lubuntu.

Another note: Only Ubuntu and Xubuntu feature the official "Ubuntu Software Center" application. The other flavors have their own "software center" apps, which don't seem to handle getting paid applications as well. You can install the official "Ubuntu Software Center" on the other desktop environments, but you may run into issues with this (screenshots not showing up, etc.).

My personal recommendation for your setup would be Xubuntu.

**LTS vs. 6-month releases**
If you prefer stability, you're probably best off only installing/upgrading to LTS (long-term support) versions of the Ubuntu OS's. If you prefer to live on the "bleeding edge" and always have the latest software and tools, then you may prefer to use the 6-month releases. The next LTS will be coming out this month. After you upgrade from your current version to this month's release, you have the option of leaving that install in place and not upgrading until the next LTS is released in two years, or upgrading every six months to the latest version. In my experience, sticking with the LTS is the best option, because although upgrades usually go smoothly, things can go wrong or break during an upgrade, and by sticking with the LTS, you are giving yourself better odds that something won't get hosed. What do I mean by "hosed"? Well, most commonly: driver issues, especially for proprietary hardware, meaning research into why my wireless is no longer working, for example. Not trying to scare you, but it can happen, and it's less likely to happen with the LTS releases.

If you are intrigued by the greater stability of LTS releases, but want to stay with the very latest updates of certain programs (beyond the security updates that Ubuntu officially creates), it is easy to find and add PPA's, which are additional software repositories, usually created for people who want to keep up with the latest developments in a particular piece of software.

All in all, enjoy the experience of exploring something new. Expect there to be a lot to learn. Don't expect everything to go perfectly, and remember: All OS's suck. They all have their strengths, weaknesses, and unique ways of making you want to put a hole through your wall ;)  What is going to be best for you comes down to which battles you're willing to fight. When a Linux system is running well, it will be the smoothest sailing you'll ever know, if your experience is anything like mine. I've also had my fair share of problems over the years, but in every case, I have learned something that has empowered me, and at this point, I am never worried about ending up in a situation that I can't get out of.

 

Offline TheMagicM

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #214 on: April 04, 2014, 06:42:30 PM »
Lets leave Windows and other NON LINUX operating systems out of this thread.  I'll just delete the ones from here on out that are anything but Linux.
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Offline Ral-ClanTopic starter

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #215 on: April 04, 2014, 07:46:40 PM »
Quote from: Mr_Bumpy;761906
Ral-clan, I feel like you've had a lot of info thrown at you, much of it conflicting. I wanted to just summarize a few things for you based on my years of using Linux as my primary OS.


Thanks, Mr. Bumpy.  That was a very informative and plain-spoken posting.  I definitely came out of it knowing more about Linux.
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Offline Ral-ClanTopic starter

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #216 on: April 04, 2014, 10:07:44 PM »
Quote from: CritAnime;761882
What he means is this. Mount point simply means what you want the partition to do. In linux you can have multiple partitions all doing their own job but still be part of the the whole system. So you can have one simply for /home which is where you store all your personal stuff.

CriteAnime, thanks so much.  I understand I need to first shrink my Windows XP partition with gparted and then create a partition for Linux.  But what I don't quite get is: do I have to create three separate partitions?  One for "root", one for "/home" and one for "swap"?

If I just shrink the XP partition with gparted and leave the rest of the disk "blank" (free - no defined partition), can't the Lubuntu installer handle that automatically?

I'm really not sure how to properly create the three root/home/swap partitions for my Lubuntu installation - or even if I need to.  And if I do, how will the Lubuntu installer know how to use the three partitions I create?

I also noticed your Linux partition seems to be "logical" rather than "primary".  Why did you choose this, and what should I choose?  That's confusing for me.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 10:10:42 PM by ral-clan »
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Offline Thorham

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #217 on: April 04, 2014, 10:31:07 PM »
Quote from: ral-clan;761921
If I just shrink the XP partition with gparted and leave the rest of the disk "blank" (free - no defined partition), can't the Lubuntu installer handle that automatically?
It should.
 

Offline Mr_Bumpy

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #218 on: April 04, 2014, 10:54:14 PM »
Quote from: ral-clan;761921
I'm really not sure how to properly create the three root/home/swap partitions for my Lubuntu installation - or even if I need to.  And if I do, how will the Lubuntu installer know how to use the three partitions I create?

Once you have assigned a mount point to a partition (in your case "/"), it will be used. If you create a swap partition, it will be used automatically. A swap partition is optional. It is used as "virtual memory", when you run out of physical RAM. It is also used for hibernation, assuming you've created a swap partition that's at least as 1.5 x the amount of RAM in your system.

Quote from: ral-clan;761921
I also noticed your Linux partition seems to be "logical" rather than "primary".  Why did you choose this, and what should I choose?  That's confusing for me.


Hard drives can only have a maximum of four actual (primary) partitions. If you need more partitions, then you make one of the four partitions (usually the last one) an "extended partition" and then you can create "logical volumes" within the extended partition to get more than four total partitions on the drive. Confusing, eh?

In your case, you would only have two partitions: Windows (/dev/sda1, NTFS), Linux (/dev/sda2, ext4). Or if you wanted to create a swap partition as well, then you'd have three. Either way, you should create them all as primary partitions.
 

Offline Mr_Bumpy

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #219 on: April 04, 2014, 11:07:24 PM »
Quote from: ral-clan;761921
I'm really not sure how to properly create the three root/home/swap partitions for my Lubuntu installation - or even if I need to.  And if I do, how will the Lubuntu installer know how to use the three partitions I create?


Once you have assigned a mount point to a partition (in your case "/"), it will be used. If you create a swap partition, it will be used automatically. A swap partition is optional. It is used as "virtual memory", when you run out of physical RAM. It is also used for hibernation, assuming you've created a swap partition that's at least as 1.5 x the amount of RAM in your system.

Creating a separate /home partition is also optional. Just a quick lesson on the Linux file system: Linux doesn't use drive letters like Windows does. All of the files available to a Linux system are accessible within a single directory tree. The very first folder (the one that contains everything else) is called "root" and is represented by "/". Within "/" will be a number of other folders, including "/etc", "/home", "/usr" and a bunch more. All of your personal data and configuration is placed in the home folder ("/home"). The benefit to having "/home" on its own partition is that your personal data and configuration are kept separate from the rest of the system, making it easier to reinstall/change the OS without having to first move your personal data.

Considering the size of your hard drive, you may be better off not creating a separate home partition. It will also be simpler :)

Quote from: ral-clan;761921
I also noticed your Linux partition seems to be "logical" rather than "primary".  Why did you choose this, and what should I choose?  That's confusing for me.


Hard drives can only have a maximum of four actual (primary) partitions. If you need more partitions, then you make one of the four partitions (usually the last one) an "extended partition" and then you can create "logical volumes" within the extended partition to get more than four total partitions on the drive. Confusing, eh?

In your case, you would only have two partitions: Windows (/dev/sda1, NTFS), Linux (/dev/sda2, ext4). Or if you wanted to create a swap partition as well, then you'd have three. Either way, you should create them all as primary partitions.
 

Offline ferrellsl

Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #220 on: April 04, 2014, 11:26:51 PM »
Quote from: cgutjahr;761879
I was talking about installing Windows without having your existing operating systems wiped off the disk - which isn't possible.


I wasn't making an argument, I was joking. You know, I tried to illustrate that by putting a smilie behind it - stupid me.

ral-clan was disappointed with his his very first Linux experience - I'm simply trying to put that in context. Yeah, that was a (minor) bug, but a slight inconvenience while doing things that Windows can't do at all isn't exactly a reason to ditch Linux.

Maybe he should try reinstalling WIndows XP on his 160 GB HD (it doesn't even support 160 GB out of the box, does it?) to realize what he's been putting up with so far :)

(psxphill: that last paragraph was another joke)


Again, you're spreading falsehoods.  Yes, it is possible and it's done all the time.  I have several systems that have Linux AND Windows installed together on different as well as the same boot drives.  Stop spreading false info.  Linux coexists quite nicely with all of my systems!
 

Offline Duce

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #221 on: April 05, 2014, 12:33:22 AM »
It's very simple to install Linux and Windows to the same drive on different partitions, lol.

Machine I am on right now has Ubuntu on one partition, Windows on the other, on the same physical drive.  Boot menu comes up when the machine starts, I select my OS du jour, easy peasy.
 

Offline cgutjahr

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #222 on: April 05, 2014, 02:01:46 AM »
Quote from: ferrellsl;761930
Again, you're spreading falsehoods.

Of course you can install Windows after Linux (the "after" part being my whole point) - if you're willing to create the necessary partitions from within Linux and manually restore and modify the Master Boot Record after installing Windows. But I wouldn't call that "Windows offering the same install options as Linux", so I jokingly told ral-clan he shouldn't blame Linux for not being user friendly.

Better now?
 

Offline CritAnime

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #223 on: April 05, 2014, 02:31:22 AM »
Mr_bumpy's post sums up partitioning far better than what I could Ral-Clan. But to simplify things lets look at the last bit.
 
Quote from: Mr_Bumpy;761927
In your case, you would only have two partitions: Windows (/dev/sda1, NTFS), Linux (/dev/sda2, ext4). Or if you wanted to create a swap partition as well, then you'd have three. Either way, you should create them all as primary partitions.

To put this into context take a look at how my primary HDD it partitioned.
 

 
This is a similar setup as the kind you would be aiming for. Because I am using Windows 8 I am pushing the limits in terms of how many partitions I can have on one drive, Windows 8 keeps a partition for tools and some system backup stuff. If I would have any more, I considered a /home at some point on this install, I would need a container (extended) partition. However like you I have a secondary HDD I can dump files on for a backup anyway so a dedicated /home is not needed. Thus all partitions can remain primary.
 
Swap, as Mr Bumpy pointed out, is not needed. Yes the installer will complain about there been no swap but you just tell it that this is fine and it installs. Personally I have always kept a swap because this is what I did back in the day when RAM limitations were a issue. And it's a habbit I just keep. :lol: But it really is not a necessity to have it.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 02:45:30 AM by CritAnime »
 

Offline Ral-ClanTopic starter

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Re: Tips on moving to Linux?
« Reply #224 on: April 05, 2014, 03:55:31 AM »
Hi Guys!

Thanks for all the help understanding Linux partitions.  Although I could have gone this way (and the info will be useful in the future), I instead did the simplest thing and just disconnected the 500GB "media" drive from my system while installing Lubuntu.

The Lubuntu installer then proceeded normally, allowing me to partition my 160GB "OS" hard drive.  So now I have a dual-boot Windows XP / Lubuntu system!  Yay!

I'm posting this from the Lubuntu OS right now.

So, now that I've gotten this far, the first thing I want to do is do a backup before I start trying to install custom drivers for my hardware and screw things up. But, I've never backed up a dual OS system before.  I am going to need some advice on the best backup strategy.

When I only had Windows XP - I used Nero Backitup to make an image of my entire C: drive to an external USB drive. Now that I have two OS partitions to backup, I'm not sure if Nero will be able to handle the Linux OS partition (as Nero runs within Windows).

Is there anything people really like?  Should I just image the whole 160GB drive in one bit image, or backup/image the each OS partitions separately?  If separately, is there a way to do this that will preserve the GRUB/MBR early boot utility or whatever (I don't really understand it yet).

Is there anything that will run from a live CD and backup to an external USB drive?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 04:47:39 AM by ral-clan »
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