Tips on moving to Linux?

[Madshib]

And that's no thanks at all to Microsoft, who had it within their power all along to provide that option and chose to try and shove Metro down everybody's throats and only made the most passive-aggressive concession possible to all the people who were screaming at them to stop.

This is a very good point about where Gnome went(this is still a Linux thread, isn't it? ) and why I won't use Ubuntu or Fedora. I know MANY people were complaining about the Unity interface. I didn't think it was such a big deal, but the departure from a more classic desktop wasn't for me after dual booting Fedora and Mint with MATE. I just like the more traditional better.
However, the difference in the Linux world is that you have lots of different choices when it comes to the desktop. Mint made it easier for Ubuntu folks by forking Gnome 2 into a modern, regularly developed for interface. You still maintain an Ubuntu core, but have all the niceties of Mint.

So I think it's important to understand that from a Linux user perspective. Window managers, file managers, desktop UIs....there are a bunch out there to choose from and they all have pros and cons. Try different distros with different desktops as standard and install different desktops from the repositories. You will be surprised and the level of customization you can achieve.

[Einstein]

VICE on Linux should be as good as WinVICE, FS-UAE is using a different approach than WinUAE (Launcher + Emulator excutable, + "ingame" menus that can be used via Joystick) but is very good already and improving constantly.

I don't know why I'm making this post but....your message invoked me to look up fs-uae and I ended up watching a video containing this worse-than-baby-jo game (don't remember the name already), here's a screenshot:

[Kremlar]

I'm saying that every version of Windows after XP has bolted progressively stupider interfaces onto progressively better internals (Vista excepted on that second count,) and thus they wind up being worse despite having every other reason to be better.

At first glance I can see why you'd say that, but while trying to "dumb down" the interface in some cases they've added so many things for power users as well.  "Metro" is fine on my tablet, but horrible for the desktop - I agree with you there.  But why use "Metro" if you don't like it?  With 8.1 you don't have to at all (with a couple of very minor exceptions).  I mean, there are so many improvements over XP and even 7 - here is a small handful off the top of my head that I would consider UI improvements:
 - Far superior support for multiple displays.
 - Multiple taskbar support.
 - More efficient use of taskbar area (combining quick launch, combining multiple instances of apps, etc.)
 - Enhanced search.
 - Better use of "Start" button (right-click for quick tasks).
 - Image previews in Explorer.
 - etc....

And other improvements:
 - Pausing file copies.
 - Faster boot times.  MUCH faster.
 - Proper SSD suppot (Trim).
 - Improve shutdown speed and reliability.
 - Integrated ISO support (mount).
 - Integrated DVD writing capabilities.
 - Integrated VM capabilities.
 - Integrated anti-virus / anti-malware.
 - Far better Windows Firewall.
 - Far improved task manager.
 - Much improved recovery/restore options.
 - etc...

And that's exactly what everybody hated about Windows 8 and they didn't actually give you any means to fix that. The fact that they don't immediately throw it up in your face now does nothing to change that.

I agree, the inability to disable "Metro" on boot was horrible about 8, but 8.1 has fixed all that.  With 8 all you needed was a small add-in to fix it as well.  Shame on Microsoft for not including a similar function.  

Once you set "Metro" to Apps view it's way better than XP.  Click the "Start" button and type a couple characters of the program you're trying to open and there it is.  Computer amateurs find it FAR easier to find something that's not in their taskbar or on their desktop using this method - I know because I deal with normal (and less than normal) users all the time.

According to who? I use the Start menu all the time for quick access to programs, i.e. exactly what it was intended for - why is that "wrong?" Why should I have to put up with somebody's dumbshít tablet interface in order to use my computer the way I've always used my computer?

I disagree.  The "Start" menu was meant for NOT-so quick access to programs.  The "quick launch" bar in XP was made for quick access.  I guarantee you that if you have a lot of applications on your PC I can find a program far faster using 8.1's "Start" button and a couple keystrokes than you could with XP.

And really, you shouldn't be using the "Start" button for anything other than very infrequently used programs.  Everything else should be pinned to the taskbar which is a HUGE improvement over XP.

And that's no thanks at all to Microsoft, who had it within their power all along to provide that option and chose to try and shove Metro down everybody's throats and only made the most passive-aggressive concession possible to all the people who were screaming at them to stop.

I agree, they are stubborn folk and I have no idea what they were thinking.  I think they have their heads up their asses.  I was at a conference a while back and a Microsoft rep was basically berating the attendees saying we NEEDED to learn Windows 8 to support our clients whether we liked it or not.  In a sense he was right, but he was missing the main point that we don't NEED to learn anything - Microsoft has to give us a product we WANT to learn, or we and our clients will go elsewhere.  This was before 8.1.

Nonetheless, 8.1 really is fantastic - best version of Windows yet, and if you don't see that I feel a bit bad for you.  I hope I don't get to the point where I'm so old and stubborn that I'm not able to stop and look at something with open eyes and see the good along with the bad, and hate something just because it's different.

Can I ask you something?  Just a guess here, but I assume you also don't see anything worthwhile about smartphones and tablets - correct?

[commodorejohn]

But why use "Metro" if you don't like it?  With 8.1 you don't have to at all (with a couple of very minor exceptions).

Because, once again, they are not "minor" exceptions. They are very major exceptions, coming down to every single time you want to launch a program from what ought to be the Start menu.

- Far superior support for multiple displays.
 - Multiple taskbar support.
 - More efficient use of taskbar area (combining quick launch, combining multiple instances of apps, etc.)
 - Enhanced search.
 - Better use of "Start" button (right-click for quick tasks).
 - Image previews in Explorer.

And none of those are actually important to me. I don't need multiple-display support because I don't use multiple displays, the taskbar "improvements" are dubious (combining instances of apps was irritating when XP introduced it, and I've had it turned off on every install,) I don't need search because I can maintain a sensible directory structure for files on my hard drive so that I always know where to find things, I don't need "quick tasks," and image previews in Explorer are another thing I've kept off in XP because they take up hard-disk space and aren't that useful. Any of those (and any of the under-the-hood improvements) may be fine for you, and I wouldn't complain about their presence in an OS (as long as I could turn off the ones that annoy me,) but they're nothing worth putting up with the ever-increasing bullshít quotient of newer Windows versions for.

Once you set "Metro" to Apps view it's way better than XP.  Click the "Start" button and type a couple characters of the program you're trying to open and there it is.  Computer amateurs find it FAR easier to find something that's not in their taskbar or on their desktop using this method - I know because I deal with normal (and less than normal) users all the time.

With a sensibly-maintained Start menu (and simple Start-menu maintenance really should be one of the first things a Windows user learns,) I need at most three or four keystrokes or a couple mouse clicks to get to the program I'm looking for - no more involved than your method, no waiting time for the search result, and no need to consume the entire screen just to launch one program.

I don't give a shít about computer amateurs; I care about my use of my computer. Insisting on forcing everybody to use dumbed-down access methods designed to coddle amateurs so that they never have to put in the smallest basic effort to learn not to be amateurs is just obscene.

And really, you shouldn't be using the "Start" button for anything other than very infrequently used programs.  Everything else should be pinned to the taskbbar which is a HUGE improvement over XP.

Who died and made you king? I'll use whatever God-damned methods I please.

Can I ask you something?  Just a guess here, but I assume you also don't see anything worthwhile about smartphones and tablets - correct?

No, I don't. I don't care if other people find them useful, but there's nothing I need them for that isn't already better served by my laptop and my dumb-phone.

[Thorham]

For me there are two good reasons to upgrade from XP:

1) Future programs that simply won't run on XP.
2) 64 bit.

As for the UI, I'll adapt

[CritAnime]

@commodorejohn
 
I did a bigish post to reply to you. But then I realised why bother. Your posts basically come down to "This %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! isn't for me!" and varying interpretations on this theme. So that's fine, go XP it up as much as you like. But stop with constant derailment already. You're like one of these old ladies I see on public transport that complain about anything and everything.

[gertsy]

For me there are two good reasons to upgrade from XP:

1) Future programs that simply won't run on XP.
2) 64 bit.

As for the UI, I'll adapt

3) New hardware support. These days most hardware (PC or MB) won't allow the install of XP (unless its SP3 integrated) and if it does; no drivers!

But this is all off topic.
Moving to Linux. Remember?

[commodorejohn]

I did a bigish post to reply to you. But then I realised why bother. Your posts basically come down to "This %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! isn't for me!" and varying interpretations on this theme. So that's fine, go XP it up as much as you like. But stop with constant derailment already. You're like one of these old ladies I see on public transport that complain about anything and everything.

Do you have the appropriate class license to backseat-mod, Crit?

[CritAnime]

You only have to look through your posts to see the incessant old woman levels of moaning. Doesn't need any mod credentials to comment on that

[polyp2000]

Can we please get back on Topic? or just close this thread?

Once again someone starts a thread regarding Linux , @commodorejohn  predictably pipes up and the thread degenerates into a slanging match.

I am really surprised that lessons havent been learned from last time.

Nick

[Duce]

Question still remains - has John even tried Windows 8 yet, or is the incessant badmouthing still based on "facts" garnered from "credible" blogs and stories passed down from the ancients?   You might not see value in something, but that doesn't make it crap out of the box when there's no facts and actual usage case presented.

I love hearing peoples opinions on things, but they often fall flat when people readily admit they haven't even tried the things they are smack talking.

Win 8 is what it is, and anyone that's used it will tell you the pro's and con's.  IIRC, the guy was the same guy that claimed tablets and smartphones were a passing fancy and that no one in their right mind would ever have a credible use for something like an ipad.  Might be of no use to you, but the people virtually throwing money at companies like Samsung and Apple, well - BS walks, the market talks, eh.

It's the ones that have no experience with things that present things as facts that often become the muttering old men in the corners, shaking their fists at "these damned newfangled kids!11!!!"    

Sorry, the "I've seen a screenshot and read a blog and that tells me something sucks" doesn't cut it.

[TheMagicM]

@CritAnime @polyp2000:

Best thing to do is not reply to his uneducated banter.  

Other than that..good replies in this Linux thread.

[CritAnime]

Try http://elementaryos.org if you like minimalistic, light and fast OS, based on Ubuntu. I like it a lot, another interesting and very nice looking "theme" turning into a distro itself is the upcoming http://www.webupd8.org/2014/02/numix-announces-new-linux-distribution.html

p.s. never had any issues with Linux.. for me personally, it just works.. and it works great.

So given the recommendation I decided to take the plunge from trialing on a USB stick to installing on a actual HDD.

(clicky the pic for a bigger version)


From a newbie point of view it seems friendly enough. As most of the *buntu/debian systems tend to be. It seems lightweight too at just a little over 500mb of RAM used at system load. I am not sure how well the effects work on older end GPU's but I plan to try on a crappy old netbook with shoddy Intel accelerated graphics and see. Package management is done through the Ubuntu store or you can use terminal to easily grab stuff with a apt-get install command.

It's based on the current Ubuntu 12.04 LTS so it should remain well supported for a while. Seems a good system.

Edit:

The Terminal programs running are HTOP from process management and Midnight Commander.

[Kremlar]

Because, once again, they are not "minor" exceptions. They are very major exceptions, coming down to every single time you want to launch a program from what ought to be the Start menu.

 
 When configured in Apps view, I don't consider clicking the "Start" button "using the Metro interface".  It's simply a full screen view of all the programs installed on your PC, searchable and easy to find.  There are no touch friendly UI elements involved.
 
 When I say "minor" exceptions I mean things like using the Control Panel to add a user, which requires using the "Metro" interface.
 
 

And none of those are actually important to me. I don't need multiple-display support because I don't use multiple displays, the taskbar "improvements" are dubious (combining instances of apps was irritating when XP introduced it, and I've had it turned off on every install,) I don't need search because I can maintain a sensible directory structure for files on my hard drive so that I always know where to find things, I don't need "quick tasks," and image previews in Explorer are another thing I've kept off in XP because they take up hard-disk space and aren't that useful. Any of those (and any of the under-the-hood improvements) may be fine for you, and I wouldn't complain about their presence in an OS (as long as I could turn off the ones that annoy me,) but they're nothing worth putting up with the ever-increasing bullshít quotient of newer Windows versions for.

 
 You may think you're making your point, but you're not - you're making mine.  That you are grumpy and too comfortable with how things are and are unwilling or unable to accept change - even if things are better or there are better ways.  Please don't take me the wrong way - not trying to be insulting.  If that's how you feel then that's fine, but it's not correct to say that things are not improved or better when they clearly are.  
 
 Are some things worse?  Sure, a couple.
 Are some things the same?  Yes.
 Are many/most things better?  Absolutely.
 
 

With a sensibly-maintained Start menu (and simple Start-menu maintenance really should be one of the first things a Windows user learns,) I need at most three or four keystrokes or a couple mouse clicks to get to the program I'm looking for - no more involved than your method, no waiting time for the search result, and no need to consume the entire screen just to launch one program.

 
 So, you spend all this time organizing and maintaining your Start Menu hierarchy but are unwilling to get use to a few new UI elements that will make your life much easier?  I can get to any program I want with either a SINGLE mouse click (taskbar) or at most 2 plus 1 or 2 keystrokes (Apps view).  All without having to spend time maintaining a Start Menu hierarchy.  
 
 

I don't give a shít about computer amateurs; I care about my use of my computer. Insisting on forcing everybody to use dumbed-down access methods designed to coddle amateurs so that they never have to put in the smallest basic effort to learn not to be amateurs is just obscene.

 
 The things I'm talking about are not dumbed down, they're simply their to make you more productive whether you are an amateur or not.
 
 
 

Who died and made you king? I'll use whatever God-damned methods I please.

 
 You can sit on your bicycle ass backwards too but it doesn't make it the right way to ride a bike.
 
 
 

No, I don't. I don't care if other people find them useful, but there's nothing I need them for that isn't already better served by my laptop and my dumb-phone.  

 
 Good for you, and that's fine - but the vast majority of other people find great value in those things, and they are more productive using them.  And they're not wrong.

[Kremlar]

Win 8 is what it is, and anyone that's used it will tell you the pro's and con's. IIRC, the guy was the same guy that claimed tablets and smartphones were a passing fancy and that no one in their right mind would ever have a credible use for something like ]an ipad. Might be of no use to you, but the people virtually throwing money at companies like Samsung and Apple, well - BS walks, the market talks, eh.

 
 But all those people are brainwashed!!!!  
 
 Sorry for my part of derailing this thread.  At the ripe old age of 40 with family and kids and very little time I find myself sometimes fighting to stay modern too, and my gut is always pulling me towards staying with what's comfortable.
 
 I have to make a conscious effort to expose myself to new ideas and new things, and when I do I usually feel excited and invigorated about things I never thought I'd like.
 
 Linux is something I have not spent a lot of time with, but this thread has convinced me to put some more effort in that direction!
 
 Thanks

[Thorham]

I don't need multiple-display support because I don't use multiple displays

:eek: Really? Multiple displays are so cool that I use an old CRT SVGA monitor as my second display. Anything better than going back to a single monitor. You should try it sometime

So, you spend all this time organizing and maintaining your Start Menu hierarchy

Arguably that only takes a few clicks after installing a program.

they are more productive using them.

But what do they produce? Who actually makes anything on a tablet or smart phone? Aren't those devices aimed at consumption rather than creation? If so, then I can certainly see how anyone mostly interested in creation doesn't find those devices very interesting.

Personally, I find those devices utterly uninteresting, because I'm simply not impressed by them. Computers with touch screen interfaces. Meh. When are we going to see some really cool stuff? Developments that are on par with the early part of the modern computer revolution which made computers available to anyone?

At the ripe old age of 40

:laughing:

I find myself sometimes fighting to stay modern too, and my gut is always pulling me towards staying with what's comfortable.

If you're fighting to stay modern, then what I wonder is: Why bother? Is there anything wrong with being old fashioned if you're not like a grumpy person about it?