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Author Topic: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems  (Read 18466 times)

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Offline spirantho

Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2014, 05:08:36 PM »
I think a 440ep (not flex) is fine for most things... it's only 3D games that would struggle. The onboard graphics on it are much better than the 460's chip... I have no troubles with mine at all.
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Offline vox

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Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2014, 05:15:06 PM »
Quote from: amigakit;760751
You will be very surprised at how it pushes the emphasis on key AmigaOS developments in specific fields.  Having both the X1000 and X5000 means that AmigaOS is headed in a new direction away from low memory, low powered hardware to a new generation of hardware
and software needing the power of the X1000 and X5000.

One day youy say development is divided, other day its linked.

As x1000 user I clearly say there is no currently software that really needs X1000. Yes, x1000 is great hardware, but AmigaOS is in sad state currently when compared what it COULD use. Since it will be more or less the same, same situation will repeat when Cyrus is beta tested.

Once OS 4.2, TW and Libre are out, situation MIGHT be a bit like you say.
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Offline KernelTopic starter

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Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2014, 12:27:25 AM »
Quote from: gizmo350;760800
This sale will give you an idea of going price....
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/161245447618?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
 
 I would love to buy this but a bit too rich for me... wonder how high it will go!


I was thinking of bidding on it but I did in fact email ACube and received a response that another batch is in production and scheduled for the May timeframe, so I'll wait it out.  I'm still working on bringing my A3K back to life anyhow.  Might just keep adding money to the pot and end up with an X-1000... who knows.

I already planted that seed with the wife and we all know it just takes a seed and eventually something comes to fruition ;-)
 

Offline giZmo350

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Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2014, 12:49:34 AM »
Did ACube specifically state that more SAM 440EP Flex boards would be available? That would be great! I sold my SAM460 as it was quit quirky but I am really wanting to get a 800MHz SAM440 now. I already have another new Silverstone case to house the board. The SAM 440 ebay auction is up to $720..+ bucks now! Wow... who ever wins it may kick themselves in the butt later when more boards are available at a lesser cost.
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Offline KernelTopic starter

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Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2014, 02:59:34 AM »
Quote from: gizmo350;760830
Did ACube specifically state that more SAM 440EP Flex boards would be available? That would be great! I sold my SAM460 as it was quit quirky but I am really wanting to get a 800MHz SAM440 now. I already have another new Silverstone case to house the board. The SAM 440 ebay auction is up to $720..+ bucks now! Wow... who ever wins it may kick themselves in the butt later when more boards are available at a lesser cost.


Well, right now the cost is approx. what it would be for the same setup as bought new if my calculations are correct... here is the email excerpt (I asked about "Sam" in general not a specific model...):

Hello,

Shipping to USA is 55 euros for the board alone and 71 euros for an A1-500.
There is a new batch in production that will be ready for mid-May.

2014-03-15 4:30 GMT+01:00 :
message = Will ACube be getting any Sam boards back in stock soon or are they out permanently?
 

Offline magnetic

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Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2014, 03:08:45 AM »
kernel

Try to get your hand on a Pegasos2. Its the best platform atm for os4 (kind of ironic) especially with price ratio. And you can run Mophos, YDL, Ubuntu, OS X, Suse and more!
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Offline amoskodare

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Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #50 on: March 16, 2014, 05:13:18 AM »
Quote from: Kernel;760835
here is the email excerpt (I asked about "Sam" in general not a specific model...):

Hello,

Shipping to USA is 55 euros for the board alone and 71 euros for an A1-500.

The "A1-500" suggiest that they mean Sam460ex as that is the motherboard used in AmigaOne 500.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 05:16:08 AM by amoskodare »
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Offline utri007

Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2014, 10:24:11 AM »
Quote from: magnetic;760836
kernel

Try to get your hand on a Pegasos2. Its the best platform atm for os4 (kind of ironic) especially with price ratio. And you can run Mophos, YDL, Ubuntu, OS X, Suse and more!


Pegasos 2 has a limited possibilities to choose graphics card. It is not a possible to use Radeon HD cards with it.
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Offline vox

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Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2014, 12:10:19 PM »
Quote from: utri007;760849
Pegasos 2 has a limited possibilities to choose graphics card. It is not a possible to use Radeon HD cards with it.

Which 2D card at this time ... and therefore is limit itself. When I try to run my Payback not even warpz3d emulation works, and bang, I wish I had 9250 I had decade ago and not 6870 monster card.
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Offline som99

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Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2014, 12:26:18 PM »
Quote from: vox;760853
Which 2D card at this time ... and therefore is limit itself. When I try to run my Payback not even warpz3d emulation works, and bang, I wish I had 9250 I had decade ago and not 6870 monster card.

What system are you using the 6870 on? Also it's not a monster card but a top mid range card from the end of 2010, but it was a competitive card for it's price and still pulls of quite good in new games and most of the time does medium setting in 1920x1080 without problems :)
 

Offline vox

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Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #54 on: March 16, 2014, 02:15:34 PM »
Quote from: som99;760855
What system are you using the 6870 on? Also it's not a monster card but a top mid range card from the end of 2010, but it was a competitive card for it's price and still pulls of quite good in new games and most of the time does medium setting in 1920x1080 without problems :)

x1000. It was a best card AmigaKit was offering at time, RADEON BARTS, as well as its best Radeon I ever had, sadly very little really used under Linux. on AmigaOS 4 it has quite a similar function as my ages old ISA Trident or Cirrus Logic - to make a 2D display.
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Offline Boot_WB

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Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2014, 02:39:13 PM »
@OP

OS4.x compatible systems:

1) Amiga + Blizzard/Cyberstorm PPC

Compatible with AmigaOS4.x for classic (developed as a seperate release from AmigaOS4.x)
Not guaranteed to be supported by latest OS release, so you may be left lagging behind. In the long term, has to be a boat anchor to development and testing.
Not all (useful) hardware supported - Blizzard PPC scsi chip being one, so you may be left using slow internal IDE bus.
The slowest of AmigaOS supported hardware, but the last real "Amiga".
Will almost certainly not support latest Linux releases.
Will run AROS
Will run MorphOS with a supported RTG card (2 hour time limited demo version, not currently possible to register).

2) AmigaONE SE (G3)
Dreadful, slow, buggy. Avoid.
The slowest 'NG' hardware. A few people have got them running relatively stably, but it's not going to be an easy experience.

3) AmigaONE XE (G3/G4)
Seem to be a lot more stable, although ymmv with a particular board.
The best (or at least the most numerous, resulting in a higher number of 'good' boards) of the Eyetech AmigaONE boards produced.
Good expandability (4? PCI slots), depending on mods made to the board you MAY be able to use a PCI>PCIe adapter and RadeonHD cards*.
Onboard ATA may need to be limited to PIO modes, onboard USB may not work, can be replaced with PCI cards.

4) micro AmigaONE (G3/G4)
Seem to have more problems than the XE, limited expandability, has onboard graphics (Radeon M9/32MB VRam iirc).
Discuss with uA1 owners for more detail on various issues/quirks.

5) Pegasos 2 (G3/G4)
Similar features to AmigaONE XE, but without any of the problems. Stable as hell in fact.
Supports AGP graphics cards.
Onboard Gigabit ethernet (not sure if supported by AmigaOS) and Firewire 400 (not supported by AmigaOS).
Also runs Linux, Mac-on-Linux, MorphOS, etc (Not sure of AROS support).

6) Sam440ep / flex
Well supported by AmigaOS, but weak cpu.
Flex model has good expansion (PCI), plain ep model less so.
Can be bought new for low** cost (
7) SAM 460 (aka AmigaONE 500 when sold in a case)
Better CPU (G4 class, but no altivec iirc)
Good expandability (PCIe x 4 (x16 physical connector for GFx cards), PCIe x 1, PCI x 1
Expensive, but shiny and new.
Onboard audio had several problems, mainly soved through driver updates, but also a manufacturing error (missing resistor) on the audio subsystem on some (not all) individual units. Not sure if all audio problems are entirely soved yet, check with Metalheart and others on AW.net for more info. Can be easily worked around with audio PCI card.
Onboard SATA is mutually exclusive with onboard PCIe x 1 slot (only one can be in use - pick your poison).
Has limited onboard graphics (SM502)

8) AmigaONE X1000
Powerful (~G4-G5) cpu (Multiple cores/64-bit modes supported in Linux, but not in AmigaOS 4.x at all).
Good expandability (2 x PCIex16 graphics slots (only 16 lanes assigned - can be 1 x 16x, or 2 x 8x) , 2 PCIe slots, 2 PCI slots.
Onboard USB2.
Has Xena (use yet to be determined) bolted to CPU GPIO lanes (use-case for this high-speed, low-latency interface is yet to be determined), and to Xorro slot. Xorro slot can be fitted with an I/O board to present interface outside the case (again, usefulness yet to be determined).
Seem to be a very stable board, although PCI bus is shockingly slow (possibly lack of DMA in AmigaOS4 PCI drivers on this board) so even using a PCI based graphics card may be very slow.

Frankly, were I determined to buy an AmigaOS compatible board, I'd go for the Peg2, Sam440, the X1000 or the SAM460.

Not bothered about having a new board? Peg2 - best all-rounder, most stable G4 board, has altivec.
Just to test compatibillity/play around with as a curiosity? Sam440
As an AmigaOS4.x main machine at a reasonable** price? Sam460
As a dual-booting useful Linux workstation capable of doing some real number crunching/high memory applications, which also runs AmigaOS4.x? X1000

The new boards have companies behind which will give you good hardware support (A-Eon, A-Cube). The Peg2's have had fantastic hardware support for nearly a decade, but are not under any warranty. Eyetech boards aren't in any way supported, although you may be able to get repairs/hardware-mods performed by 3rd parties.

Hardware assessed, I would also base my decision on what is supported RIGHT NOW in AmigaOS, not what has been implied/promised/bet-it-won't-take-two-years'ed.
The last few years have shown how little Hyperion can be relied upon to pull their weight with respect to moving AmigaOS forward, as nearly all progress has been either 3rd party (funded by A-Eon mainly), or community volunteers gaining access to continue elements of OS development (Lyle Hazlewood, Fredrick Wistrom).

Multi-core? Gallium 3D? I'll believe it when I see it _working_.
Open-office? Warp3D? Much more of a chance of appearing, as it's a 3rd-party effort funded by Trevor.

* RadeonHD cards are currently supported in 2D only (Respect to Hans's 2D work, which seems to function well from what I have read (haven't used myself)). Hardware video scaling on these cards requires 3D drivers, which are dependent upon Hyperion's Gallium3D work, which has been some years and appears to have made little progress.
Consequently, video playback performance on these cards really sucks, so until/if/when/somewhere-over-the-rainbow 3D drivers arrive (and video scaling via textures) you're probably better off sticking with a Radeon 9xxx if you want to be able to watch videos or play 3D games.

** Used in the relative sense.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 06:55:40 PM by Boot_WB »
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Online amigakit

Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2014, 03:52:46 PM »
Quote
it has quite a similar function as my ages old ISA Trident or Cirrus Logic - to make a 2D display

This is completely wrong.

If you run the compositing Boing Ball demo from Hans De Ruiter, you will see the clear performance difference between a RadeonHD 6870 and lower specced cards.  The demo is much smoother and faster.  If you run M.A.C.E full game with FPS in 1920x1080, you can also see the performance difference with RadeonHD 6870.

And A-EON has some software coming out in the next three months that will demonstrate some more of the power of the RadeonHD on AmigaONE X1000 over other AmigaOS 4 hardware.  

Choosing lower specced second hand hardware may not be the best choice soon...
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Offline KernelTopic starter

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Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2014, 04:20:20 PM »
Quote from: amoskodare;760842
The "A1-500" suggiest that they mean Sam460ex as that is the motherboard used in AmigaOne 500.


Good point - I've asked for clarification from them and will follow-up when I receive it.
 

Offline KernelTopic starter

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Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2014, 09:11:30 PM »
Quote from: Kernel;760864
Good point - I've asked for clarification from them and will follow-up when I receive it.


Ok, they responded:

Hi,

Only Sam460 and A1-500.

Regards,

2014-03-16 17:19 GMT+01:00
 
To be clear, the “batch” – is this just Sam460ex motherboards and A1-500 systems or will there also be Sam440ep-Flex boards available?
 

Offline takemehomegrandma

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Re: Opinions / Info - AmigaOS 4.x Systems
« Reply #59 from previous page: March 16, 2014, 09:14:49 PM »
Quote from: utri007;760849
Pegasos 2 has a limited possibilities to choose graphics card. It is not a possible to use Radeon HD cards with it.


However, the possibilities to use Radeon HD cards for anything useful in OS4 is rather limited, where a Radeon 9250 offers 2D acceleration, 3D acceleration and overlay. And technically speaking, there are many possible AGP cards that would work in a Pegasos 2 so I wouldn't call it "limited selection", but as usual it's a matter of drivers, which has always been an Achilles Heel in OS4...
MorphOS is Amiga done right! :)