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Offline spirantho

Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #44 from previous page: January 29, 2014, 09:40:21 PM »
Quote from: Erol;758186
sorry i have to be honest,  having owned a Neo Geo the sound is awful at least the Amiga has nicer 'composed' music.   I would rather play on a CD32 than a Neo Geo, BUT buy both and decide for yourself is my personal advice.


I think it depends on the game... but you need to remember that the NeoGeo games are made for a different market -they're made for the Arcade, so it has to be loud and "in-your-face".

Certainly the NG sound hardware is better than Paula - Paula has 16-bit sound at 22KHz (usually), whereas the NG has 15 channel sound, sampling at up to 55.5KHz (though I don't think all channels can do this). You'd expect it to be better, though - Paula was created in 1984/5 and never changed, whereas the NG sound chip I think came later.

I've certainly never had a problem with NG sound, but I don't think musical compositions are NeoGeo games' strong points, no. If you're going to compare with the CD32, though, you should compare the NeoGeo CD, which of course has CD Audio too (and some great soundtracks).
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2014, 10:26:31 PM »
Quote from: XDelusion;758187
And that spells out the current trend that to me seems to be killing the modern video game industry. With the exception of Nintendo, no one is designing video game hardware around the games they'd like to develop, rather (Sony and Microsoft) are trying to churn out something with the most impressive specs, bells, whistles, etc.  and paying mind to little else. As if match the specs of dated PC hardware is going to make good games a given...

...when the matter of the fact is that few games that come out on Sony or Microsoft any more are about gaming and are more about making shooters with more polys, higher res textures, more tits, more ass, more foul language, and more dark, deviant, and psychotic plot lines.
Amen to that. This is basically the entire reason I haven't bothered with current-gen gaming since Oblivion came out. Overblown, undercooked, samey crap that looks like the world's drabbest GPU demo reel (and plays like it, too,) ever drabber and drearier and displaying the same kind of "maturity means saying 'f***' a lot and having every female character dressed like a stripper" attitude that put me off getting into comic books back in the '90s.
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Offline XDelusion

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Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2014, 10:27:33 PM »
Quote from: gertsy;758189
Can't disagree with this. But that's not in Microsoft or Sony's direct control, they make the platform. Imagine a high quality version of Worms on these platforms now. I reckon it would sell like hot cakes.

I stopped at PS 2.



 Aside of Sony's Eye toy thingy they released for the PS 2, I'd say their actions prove that they are to blame. Take Nintendo for example, when they come out with a platform and, it's going to be unique because they have been developing a game that can be realized without said hardware. For instance, the Gameboy Advanced lacked a second screen, so they added one. Or the N64 had to sell with limited RAM, so they left room for an expansion so later down the road, gamers could cough out a little extra cash to experience games that took advantage of that memory. Sega did the same thing with the Saturn. They had foresight, something in mind that they had planned long before the hardware existed.

 Microsoft and Sony on the other hand are just trying to lure in your run of the mill PC developers who focus on more realistic graphics, and those other things I mentioned above. Essentually they are trying to cate to a demographic, a set audience. A core group of gamers who are expecting a particular kind of paint job, and a certain kind of style. Yes they want things to be newer, bigger, better, beyond the graphics, but what ever that "newer, bigger, better" is, it has to play it safe and build upon the genre of gaming that they all flock to.
 
 It's sort of like sports. There are SOOOOO many variations of sports out there, but if you were to hang out with people who love sports, you'd be convinced that there are really only about two or three. Football, Basketball, and Baseball.... well and maybe fighting. All other forms of sports generally get pushed to the way side, except during the Olympics.

 For the video game world, this is unnatural, the modern fan base for video games is unnatural, that is to say the home console market more so than the newere markets with cell phones and the like. Back in the day when video games were still highly experimental, there was nothing but inovation. Mind you, there was a ton of copy cat coding of course, but what I'm saying is that there was no safe formula.

Video games, though large, were still primarily underground, that is to say, in the hands of the developers, and passionate small company heads who hired them. There were no college grad, or old and clueless CEO's who were detached in heart, mind, and spirit from the product they were trying to sell, not to mention the audience. They were not around dictating to those with the real passion as to what they should develop. Granted, it didn't take long for such types to emerge, but in the early days, they were not EVERYWHERE!
 Just like how movies, musick, books, religion, and generally all things great and pure have gone. Joy!!!

 So anyhow, no jerk off CEO, no clueless old men or women, no cluless and ambition young college grads, just the love of what was being done, and an exploration, because as I said, no standard formula for "platformer" "sports title" "rpg" "action" "shooter", and so on, had been established yet. Games came out generally how ever the programmer(s) imagined it. They could not just refer to DOOM, Dragon's Layer, Super Mario, Half-Life, Knight of the Old Republic, and so on, and say,"aghh, here's what we'll do, we'll make something kind of like Half-Life, but instead you are doing this this and this.

 So we had a few copy cats, but a TON of un-orthodoxed video games pretty much all the way up to the Dreamcast era, but then it seemed like the market begin to really come under the grips of "commercial and business sense". Somehow a generation of gamers were born that only liked the same thing over and over again, and it is to this crowd that CEO's pander to. Or the pander to the concept that chidlren, who's minds are like a sponge and can absorb almost anything at a very fast rate, are infact slow, dumb, and clumsy, and therefore need shallow "kids" games, that are not too challenging, not to complex, don't inspire imagination, but they certainly do manage to market what ever they are marketting well... Sponge Bob? The Disney Princess archtype? Other forms of "animation" that are but a slap in the face to animation and story telling greats suhc as Ralph Bakshi, Don Bluth (Dragon's Layer), Chuck Jones, and the like.

I'm generalizing now, tried of typing, but you get the picture.

 I dont' think Microsoft needed such and such specs to develop Halo 15, or to make the characters in their games more and more shallow and cliche. It is clear that they had not vision or plan when the Kinect came out, as it released with absolutely nothing that was enjoyable to play with it. In fact I NEVER see any of my XBOX buddies using theirs. Same goes for the Sony Wiimote, I know some good 3rd party games support them, but really, how blatantly can you rip off Nintendo, then turn around and dog on them for this business sense...
...oh wait they recently turned around again and thanked them for being there to rip off. True story.

 Anyhow, the game market is crap, long live Nintendo, but shame on them for only putting safety nets at their factories. Ruthless!!!
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Offline Erol

Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2014, 10:28:49 PM »
Quote from: spirantho;758193
...I don't think musical compositions are NeoGeo games' strong points, no.


All valid points, certainly worth a purchase,  I know there is some great exclusive titles on the Neo Geo so its certainly worth buying for the experience.

My own personal view is if you have a great game but the sound composition is awful it wont make me like the game.  Mega drive also had the same effect on me, I just didn't like the sound.  Maybe because I'm a SID chip fan, i just know when it sounds wrong.
 

Offline XDelusion

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Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2014, 10:29:58 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;758197
"maturity means saying 'f***' a lot and having every female character dressed like a stripper" attitude that put me off getting into comic books back in the '90s.



Straight up, while in some ways comics got really good since the 90's...

...in far far far too many ways have they gone down hill and lost the essense of where they came from... healthy role models being one.
Earth has a lot of things other folks might want... like the whole planet. And maybe these folks would like a few changes made, like more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and room for their way of life. - William S. Burroughs
 

Offline Acill

Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2014, 04:21:48 AM »
If you want a Neo Geo get an arcade machine. You can find single slot and double slot ones for a couple hundred bucks. The games are carts just like the console but MUCH cheaper and easy to find on ebay as well.

If you dont want an arcade machine taking up space you can consolize the board pretty easily too.
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Offline bbond007

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Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2014, 05:59:18 AM »
I got my PS4 on launch back in nov for my Bday. From my self. Was going to sell it but...

I had pre-ordered it and was a little disappointed that it came without the camera which was pictured when I ordered it.

I did by the Plus, but I have not purchased any games for it yet. The only thing I really have played on it is Contrast. I figure I'll eventually get Knack once used gets down to about $20. Naughty dog will eventually release something :)

I got the PS4 on no interest credit, so it was easy to pay off over the last few months, so at least it did not cost much.

I receive a lot of gift cards typically over my bday and Christmas, and I'm glad I cashed all those in for an Nvidia Shield which leads me to my next point. Had I used my gift cards for the PS4 that would have been disappointing :)

Emulators on powerful devices like the Tegra4 are realistic compared to real deal and I don't perceive much lag at all. Also, you are not loading windows which does add to authenticity.

I'm sure the Mad Catz MOJO is a good alternative to Shield - just more of a true console.

NeoGeo is may have been the most powerful 2D console, or I think that honor may go to the sharp x68000. NeoGeo was impressive in the day, but the game library does not have much variation.

NeoGeo is pretty easy to emulate in hardware (and has been for a lone time) now because large sprites can be emulated with ease via opengl textured quads. Even the Dingo could emulate NeoGeo almost perfectly :)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 06:04:21 AM by bbond007 »
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2014, 07:16:08 AM »
Quote from: XDelusion;758198
Aside of Sony's Eye toy thingy they released for the PS 2, I'd say their actions prove that they are to blame....
.
.
 Anyhow, the game market is crap, long live Nintendo, but shame on them for only putting safety nets at their factories. Ruthless!!!


Understand your point of view but still I fail to see, apart from proprietary games, how Sony and Microsoft are directly responsible for what you, in my view, are clearly pointing out above is a result of what games houses know will sell and is the core reality of the mass market as confined by modern marketing.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 07:23:52 AM by gertsy »
 

Offline jj

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Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2014, 01:12:56 PM »
Quote from: spirantho;758180
The NeoGeo in fact ONLY has sprites. From memory, I believe the backgrounds you see are actually sprites of 32 pixels by 200 or whatever the height is. This is why NeoGeo games have parallax and things so easily - it's just lots of really tall sprites (the NG has no height limit on its sprites).

Minimum sprite size: 1×2
Maximum sprite size: 16×512
Maximum sprites per scanline: 96
Simultaneous scroll planes: 3
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Offline XDelusion

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Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2014, 09:16:11 PM »
Quote from: gertsy;758219
Understand your point of view but still I fail to see, apart from proprietary games, how Sony and Microsoft are directly responsible for what you, in my view, are clearly pointing out above is a result of what games houses know will sell and is the core reality of the mass market as confined by modern marketing.


 Well I suppose nothing is stopping 3rd party developers from developing inovative games for Sony or Microsloth's hardware... I just don't see it happen much, at least not like Nintendo does it.

 What I'm suggesting though is that the market is partially engineered. I mean people smoke crack, it's addictive, makes you feel horrible, and can eventually kill you, yet people do it! Same goes for the consumer market, a lot of it is based upon drawing crowds with a lot of buzz, a lot of boom, and a lot of bling, where as at the core, many of the products that people buy today, have any relevent use at the end of the day. Take Pier One Imports as an example. NOTHING in that store has any practical use, it's all for cosmetic effect. Heck you can't even actually sit on any of the (wicker) furniture in the store lest it eventually break and fall out from under you, yet people still shop at those stores like they are going out of style.
 Likewise, I think a lot of kids are sucked into the modern corporately and less artistically generated games of today's era, because of the hype, how it makes them feel to take on the role of Billy Bad Ass with a gun, and it gives them to talk about with their friends, again like Football, it's a macho occasion.
 Girls on the other hand generally seem to flock towards games that prepare them for the club, girls love clubs. So Dance Dance Devolution, and phsyically (not so much mentally or emotionally) fit games are the order of the day, what ever makes them feel "hot".

 Again, I'm generalizing, but I swear there are so many better offerings from Nintendo and from game machines past than what are on the PS 2, 3, 4, and 360 combined. Games that will be as fun or nearly as fun to pick up and play 20 years down the road as they were on the first day.

 Anyhow, I'm just ranting and raving, I sincerley hope I'm not coming across as a know it all or like I'm arguing with you, I'm truly not, I just don't have much faith in the tastes and opinions of the common consumer, I am convinced that people don't always really like what they think they like, but that's just me. :)

 On that note let me say what a breath of fresh air it is to have met so many young kids who prefer a Super Nintendo over an XBONE. Now that is saying something cause we all know how kids generally think about the pass times of generations past.
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Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #54 on: February 08, 2014, 03:42:26 AM »
At original poster IMO

1 Download NG emulator and games.
2 Run emulator and try all games which are not 2D fighting games.
3 Make sure you like enough of games which are not 2D fighting games.
4 Get a Neo-Geo CD console, a cake of 100 blank CD-Rs and get busy with Nero if you want the feel of real hardware on a big CRT TV with actual controllers.

The CD machines are incredibly hard to find, they made the 3DO sales look spectacular they were so obscure. Carts are too expensive, do not fancy £200 on some rubbish 2D fighting game that is inferior in every way to a £1 copy of Virtua Fighter 2 on even a Sega Saturn myself.

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Offline spirantho

Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #55 on: February 08, 2014, 09:19:51 AM »
The CD machines suffer from loooong loading times, but they are a good entry point and are cheaper and easier to find than the NeoGeo AES (nobody wants them as much!).

The 2d fighters are not all rubbish, though... some of them are excellent. Personally I'd rather play a good 2D beat-em-up than Virtua Fighter any day, and some of them aren't in the hundreds of dollars.
All a matter of taste though.
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Offline stefcep2

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Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #56 on: February 08, 2014, 10:04:20 AM »
@Xdelusion.  I'm a Ninty fan myself, but I've stopped at the Wii that I''ve soft modded so I can play off hard drive and play homebrew.  The Gamecube is my fave console though, some fantastic games come out on it and all are playable with Wii.  With component cables and on my 42 inch plasma things look great enough, even though its all SD.
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2014, 03:51:32 PM »
Quote from: stefcep2;758629
@Xdelusion.  I'm a Ninty fan myself, but I've stopped at the Wii that I''ve soft modded so I can play off hard drive and play homebrew.  The Gamecube is my fave console though, some fantastic games come out on it and all are playable with Wii.  With component cables and on my 42 inch plasma things look great enough, even though its all SD.

Well said.
The Wii U is just another step in the current evolution: Gamecube>Wii>Wii U.
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Frankly, I wish the PS3 or XBOX360 were more hackable as I find them more attractive than their replacements.
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Offline XDelusion

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Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2014, 04:01:32 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;758640
so why not stick with the Wii.


Answer: The New Games, and yes the tablet is nice. :)
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Offline Amiga_Nut

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Re: Neo Geo vs A1200
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2014, 03:15:53 AM »
Quote from: spirantho;758628
The CD machines suffer from loooong loading times, but they are a good entry point and are cheaper and easier to find than the NeoGeo AES (nobody wants them as much!).

The 2d fighters are not all rubbish, though... some of them are excellent. Personally I'd rather play a good 2D beat-em-up than Virtua Fighter any day, and some of them aren't in the hundreds of dollars.
All a matter of taste though.


Yeah some load times are really bad, might even be a single speed CD-ROM in the machine. But I was told that the machine is like the CD32 in that it has no boot sector or other lockout files so just burn CD-Rs and off you go :)

Ahh well I'm more of a Mortal Kombat fan myself in the old 2D fighter arena but the rubbish bit is more to do with IMO VF2 is the finest beat em up since Way of the Exploding Fist hit the C64, it's easy to learn and play initially, addictive as you progress and has many in depth move combos to master lol

I'm actually on the lookout for a CD machine too, Viewpoint is just a game every shmup fan needs to have at home :D