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AuthorTopic: UltimatePPC rumor  (Read 2012 times)

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Offline Jose

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2015, 05:35:05 PM »
"Isn't this the PPC accelerator that uses a CPU that is binary incompatible with CPUs used in existing accelerators and motherboards?"

IIRC, they considered that and were evaluating using another processor, I think it's in one of the news on their site. No other real news after that, I doubt they'll make it too. Would be great news though if they did...
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Offline Acill

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2015, 07:15:13 PM »
Interesting project, but I fail to see the point of it all? The 68040 is nice if it allows classic software to run, but not having a PPC that works with the original PPC and the recent stuff just seems like a lot of work for a card that has zero software support?

Dont get me wrong, this is amazing looking, I just dont see why starting over from a new hardware level is a good idea in a market thats as small as it currently is.
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Offline Kremlar

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2015, 10:14:05 PM »
Quote
Dont get me wrong, this is amazing looking, I just dont see why starting over from a new hardware level is a good idea in a market thats as small as it currently is.

I agree.  I thought it was a cool idea at first.  In my opinion the small market is moving away from PPC as it is - especially the classic market.  Don't see the point.

Classic future is in bigger/faster FPGA cores.
 

Offline Jose

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2015, 11:03:12 PM »
Well, if they wanted to cover the classic 68k market only they wouldn't be making a PPC accelerator in the first place. Have you looked at the prices the Cyberstorm PPC commands ? :)
\\"We made Amiga, they {bleep}ed it up\\"
 

Offline TheMagicM

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2015, 11:38:47 PM »
I think its cool I guess.  IMO...all this new overpriced/underpowered hardware kinda sucks.  I'd rather effort (read: more money) be put into bounties for MorphOS/OS4 software to encourage more development.  More software = more users.
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Offline SACC-guy

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2015, 06:57:41 AM »
Amiga "needs" both hardware and software products!!!
Look at the response Jens has on his usb cards (which needed drivers) and other products.
 

Offline KimmoK

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2015, 01:43:38 PM »
Quote from: Lurch;791351
Now that sounds interesting, and being x86 it would be cheaper to make. I'm in :-)


I doubt you find usable x86 SoC that is cheaper than PPC.

I bet ultimateppc people have changed P10xx chip to a T10xx. (eur40...50 & 1.4Ghz).
« Last Edit: June 23, 2015, 01:50:13 PM by KimmoK »
- KimmoK
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Offline Iggy

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2015, 02:23:53 PM »
Quote from: KimmoK;791513
I doubt you find usable x86 SoC that is cheaper than PPC.

I bet ultimateppc people have changed P10xx chip to a T10xx. (eur40...50 & 1.4Ghz).


Actually, an X86 SoC would be a lot cheaper, but a PPC would make more sense.
And you are right that a T1022 or T1042 would be a likely choice. It would make OS4 or MorphOS support easier as those use the same e5500 core that is used in the processor used in the X5000.
Legacy PPC support? Is that really that important? After all, you are talking about a small handful of applications.
Running OS3.1 apps under OS4.1 with real hardware for apps that directly access specific locations, now that could get interesting.
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Offline KimmoK

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2015, 12:27:22 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;791516
Actually, an X86 SoC would be a lot cheaper...

Do you have more info/link at hand?

BayTrail is not as powerfull as desktop x86, but there might be some USD30 component that I have missed. (it has been USD100+ on BOM that I saw)

CherryTrail might be closer to 50% of i7 performance per/Mhz, their initial price was:
Atom x5-8300 PCIe 2.0 x1 (max 1080p OpenGL3.1, max 2GB RAM, USD150...249?)
Atom x5-8500 PCIe 2.0 x2 (max 4k OpenGL3.1, max 8GB RAM, USD250...349?)
Atom x7-8700 PCIe 2.0 x2 (max 4k OpenGL3.1, max 8GB RAM, USD350+?)

So, to me it seems PPC is alot cheaper. (even though might perform only less than what cherrytrail core does)
(PPC prices start from USD30 or so, if cheapest 1Ghz part (without GFX output) is used)

PPC SoC example for ultra low end 1Ghz:

APM82181-SKE1000T USD18,5
http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store/em/EMController/Processors/AMCC/APM82181-SKE1000T/_/R-5000740400286/A-5000740400286/An-0?action=part&catalogId=500201&langId=-1&storeId=500201&listIndex=-1&page=1&rank=1

https://c1170156.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com/UK_AMC_APM82181-SKE1000T_DS.pdf


UPDATE:
"The price listed on Z3740 and Z3770 pages on Intel website is respectively $32, and $37."
Still more than cheapest 1Ghz PPC.
But I have no info what is cheapest available intel SoC... and for what real price.
I know that for example some BayTrails (if not all of them) are available only for existing customers. (and not for long)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 12:55:57 PM by KimmoK »
- KimmoK
// Windows will never catch us now.
// The multicolor AmigaFUTURE IS NOW !! :crazy:
 

Offline Iggy

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2015, 01:46:48 PM »
@ Kimmok,

Yes, X86 IS a lot cheaper.
I could give you examples using desktop cpus, but they require an additional chipset.
So...here is a four core AMD Soc that runs at 2.4 GHz AND has a built in GPU.
http://www.semiconductorstore.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=50134
$97, is that expensive (especially considering the added value of the gpu)?

And your examples are a little skewed.
You should be comparing SoCs, not whole X86 systems with PPC SoCs.

But...I actually prefer a PPC solution myself.
The chips I'm interested in are low cost derivatives  Freescale's e5500 core, the T1022 and T1042.
At only a little over $100, the T1042 could give us a four core system at up to 1.4GHz that would fit very nicely in a board similar to the SAM460.
Those chips would also make awesome PPC accelerators.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 02:06:18 PM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline KimmoK

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2015, 02:31:08 PM »
@Iggy
>So...here is a four core AMD Soc that runs at 2.4 GHz AND has a built in GPU. http://www.semiconductorstore.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=50134 $97, is that expensive (especially considering the added value of the gpu)?

Thanks for link.
It is expensive if someone is "just" building an accelerator.
But if also GPU planned to be used, then it's ok.
(it just might be super hard to implement driver for it, for Amiga environment)

(PPC SoC with simple 2D output cost about USD50. AMD does 3D.
AMD without GPU is USD38 while PPC is about USD18, so PPC is cheaper but with fraction of AMD performance))

>You should be comparing SoCs, not whole X86 systems with PPC SoCs.

I was.

>At only a little over $100, the T1042 could give us a four core system at up to 1.4GHz
Freescale lists:
-USD38 (+ tax and stuff) for T1024 and their material indicate that they might release also single core T1014.
-USD60 (+ tax and stuff) for T1042

As those chips are pin compatible, one should analyze what is target of the accelerator build.
68k CPU emulator would use only one core, AOS4.1 classic uses only one core etc...

But sure, if there is some use for more cores quad core version should be selected because the price difference is so small vs the total price of such accelerator.


Addition, more about the AMD SoC:
https://www.amd.com/Documents/AMDGSeriesSOCProductBrief.pdf

This seem like superb value for money, if you do not need the GPU (2Ghz 38USD):
http://www.semiconductorstore.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=50128
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 02:46:47 PM by KimmoK »
- KimmoK
// Windows will never catch us now.
// The multicolor AmigaFUTURE IS NOW !! :crazy:
 

Offline Iggy

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2015, 05:11:41 PM »
@ Kimmok,

I was psyched about the e5500 cored products when they were introduced, but these new chips have a really good price to performance ration.
And they should definitely have better performance than the AMCC cpus currently used by Acube.
I mentioned these to Trevor awhile ago, but they are a little below his target market.
They would be a perfect match for Acube's line though.
And we could use a good, low cost PPC board.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline eliyahu

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2015, 08:19:42 PM »
@thread

looks like the ultimateppc developers have punted on appearing at the amiga 30th anniversary event this weekend in amsterdam. :(

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Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2015, 08:47:28 PM »
Quote from: eliyahu;791603
looks like the ultimateppc developers have punted on appearing at the amiga 30th anniversary event this weekend in amsterdam. :(

Heh.  Somebody gave them a tag on their name on the event website.  Dislike.  :(
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Offline spudje

Re: UltimatePPC rumor
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2015, 08:58:36 PM »
So I guess that's what it is indeed, the contents of the OP, a rumor!!!