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Author Topic: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum  (Read 16610 times)

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Offline Duce

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Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #29 from previous page: February 16, 2014, 12:02:53 PM »
The whole thread came about, once again - by the OP, who admittedly went into personal debt to buy an X1000 and OS4 without doing his homework about what is or is not supported onboard by the hardware by the OS.  He then went on a tangent about how he was going to sue Hyperion and A-EON because he didn't do any fact checking.

After he got laughed out of the building on that, he became an ardent MOS supporter and was buying a SAM 460.  He proceeded to go to Morph Zone with tinfoil hat on head and pretty much alienated himself there as well.

When anyone points out flaws and insanity in his logic, he whips out the "I AM A LEARNED AND JUST MAN DUE TO JAH AND REGGAE!" and posts links to some reggae video that for whatever reason to him seem to explain away the fact he went into hock buying an expensive computer without checking what it could or could not do.  Pretty much the gist of it, and it makes the old Doomy antics seem sane, lol.

And I agree, the factional nonsense is what's hammering the nails into the coffin of what is already a very skint amount of collective users in the Amiga scene.  It's mutually assured destruction and has caused people to retract from the community, if not the hobby itself.

Then again, maybe I'm being too logical.  If something is too costly, or doesn't do something that I require, I simply don't purchase it and refrain from polluting the scene as a whole if I can avoid doing so.  Personal choice is a truly wonderful thing, and there's enough options in this day and age to have everyone covered regardless of what they prefer.
 

Offline Lionheart

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Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2014, 04:59:13 PM »
Quote from: amoskodare;758955
@Lionheart

LOL, that flamebait doesn't work on me pal, please try little harder ;)



In denial... Like you were?


Flamebait?  You accused me of being someone named Vox.  I'm merely pointing out the reason behind your accusation.


Quote from: yssing;758961

And I would like to know, why you think that AmigaOS is so bad.


Beyond being called "AmigaOS" what does it have to offer?  It's only selling point is the name, which it licenses from Amiga Inc. (a company run by a con-artist and used as a shell company for tax evasion)




Alone it costs around $150, but this price is usually included within the sale of a new motherboard or system.  Now does $150 seem worth it to you for something that can't even fully support the very limited amount of hardware it needs to run on?  Add on to that the ridiculously expensive hardware and you got a system most people can't afford and an operating system that offers nothing exclusive beyond the name.  

Quote from: spirantho;758967
I've never understood the need to bash OS4 by people who don't use it.... but all it does is drive a thicker wedge between groups of Amiga users.


People not being able to use it is the problem.  The fact that it requires expensive hardware most people can't afford limits the audience and interest in software development.  Continuing this kind of business model will end in failure.

Quote from: Duce;758970
The whole thread came about, once again - by the OP, who admittedly went into personal debt to buy an X1000 and OS4 without doing his homework about what is or is not supported onboard by the hardware by the OS.  He then went on a tangent about how he was going to sue Hyperion and A-EON because he didn't do any fact checking.


If you have to go into personal debt to buy an X1000 and OS4, you have a problem with your priorities.  I agree that he should have done his research.  However, A-EON does deserve some blame since they're selling the X1000 with Amiga OS4 and advertise features they know it doesn't support.  If you even look on their page for the X1000: http://www.a-eon.com/?page=x1000 they're still advertising their Amiga OS4 system with features that the OS they've included doesn't support and without disclaiming which ones are not supported.  Legally, this could be considered false advertisement since Amiga OS4 and features that it doesn't support are being advertised with it.
 

Offline yssing

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Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2014, 05:20:35 PM »
The price, is not higher than a windows licens.

Hardware comes as cheap as the SAM440, which is rather cheap.

A-EON deserves no blame, the produce and delivers, if you don't want to buy their hardware, then don't.

But why don't you just get a Pi with Aros, drink a nice cup of coffee and STFU!
 

Offline Boot_WB

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Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2014, 05:38:35 PM »
Quote from: Lionheart;758989
[...] A-EON does deserve some blame since they're selling the X1000 with Amiga OS4 and advertise features they know it doesn't support.  If you even look on their page for the X1000: http://www.a-eon.com/?page=x1000 they're still advertising their Amiga OS4 system with features that the OS they've included doesn't support and without disclaiming which ones are not supported.  Legally, this could be considered false advertisement since Amiga OS4 and features that it doesn't support are being advertised with it.

I sincerely doubt it, since they disclaim in the page you linked to that specs are valid at time of writing and subject to change. Also, they aren't selling the product through that website.

At the point of sale (Amigakit) there is a concise summary of which drivers are still in development on the specs page, as well as an FAQ which states clearly that only one core is used by AmigaOS (with a suitably vague forward looking statement wft future support for multiple cores).

I'm not going to beat the drum for Hyperion (I wouldn't buy a used A1200 from them after the last few years of shenanigans) but A-Eon have produced hardware which does what it says in the specs, are fairly up-front about the level of support for hardware in AmigaOS (XENA info seems pretty inflated given the lack of use), and aren't trying to hide information from anyone afaics. And I say that as someone who disagrees with most of their design choices. ;)
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Offline Iggy

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Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2014, 05:53:08 PM »
Or you could just "join us" (I love that phrase, its so Sam Raimi), with our just as high license fee and lower hardware cost, and learn what AOS could have become even before work was started on AOS4.

Then again, I actually find myself sticking up for OS4.
Its steadily (if slowly) improving, and as it is based on OS3.1, it IS an Amiga OS product.
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Offline Lionheart

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Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2014, 06:53:32 PM »
Quote from: yssing;758990
The price, is not higher than a windows licens.

Hardware comes as cheap as the SAM440, which is rather cheap.

A-EON deserves no blame, the produce and delivers, if you don't want to buy their hardware, then don't.

But why don't you just get a Pi with Aros, drink a nice cup of coffee and STFU!


The price/performance ratio of the Sam440 is a joke and its performance is on par with a used Mac running a PowerPC 750cxe.  Its only selling point is being able to run Amiga OS4 and even with that it's still not worth it.


Quote from: Boot_WB;758992
I sincerely doubt it, since they disclaim in the page you linked to that specs are valid at time of writing and subject to change. Also, they aren't selling the product through that website.


Saying that the specifications are valid from July 2012 and are subject to change doesn't change the fact that some features advertised were never supported to begin with.  The fact that they're not selling it directly on their site is irrelevant since they link to the site where you can buy it and because the issue is not where you buy it but rather how it is being advertised by the company that makes it.
 

Offline Lionheart

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Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2014, 07:17:44 PM »
Quote from: Iggy;758996
Or you could just "join us" (I love that phrase, its so Sam Raimi), with our just as high license fee and lower hardware cost, and learn what AOS could have become even before work was started on AOS4.

Then again, I actually find myself sticking up for OS4.
Its steadily (if slowly) improving, and as it is based on OS3.1, it IS an Amiga OS product.


Well according to Hyperion, AROS is apparently also built on OS 3.1's source code along with MorphOS. :razz:

Of course those statements are false and were only used by Hyperion to spread FUD to slow their development.  AROS has been around since 1996 and had to waste time cloning and reverse engineering everything. Even though Hyperion already had the 3.1 source code, some of that code is 68k assembly and couldn't be used.  Operating systems have changed since 1994 and developing a modern operating system wouldn't have required much use of 3.1 source code since a lot of new code has to be written to bring it up to date.  Even Hyperion had to use source code from AROS to build OS4.
 

Offline Boot_WB

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Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2014, 07:23:52 PM »
Quote from: Lionheart;758998
Saying that the specifications are valid from July 2012 and are subject to change doesn't change the fact that some features advertised were never supported to begin with.  

Which specification(s) from your link are you thinking of that aren't supported by A-Eon's hardware?

Quote
[snip marketing bollocks]

AmigaONE X1000 Latest Specifications:

 PA Semi Dual-core PA6T-1682M, nominal 2.0GHz (1.8GHz standard) PowerISA™ v2.04+ CPU
 "Xena" 500MHz XMOS XS1-L2 124
 ATI Radeon Evergreen or Northern Isles graphics card (option)
 2GB or 4GB RAM (option)
 1TB Hard drive
 22x DVD combo drive
 Boing Ball case
 Boing Ball keyboard and mouse (option)
 7.1 channel HD audio

Ports and connectors:

 4x DDR2 RAM slots
 10x USB 2.0
 1x Gigabit Ethernet
 2x PCIe x16 slots (1x16 or 2x8)
 2x PCIe x1 slots
 1x Xorro slot
 2x PCI legacy slots
 2x RS232
 4x SATA 2 connectors
 1x IDE connector
 JTAG connector
 1x Compact Flash

Revised specifications valid from July 2012 and are subject to change.

Quote
The fact that they're not selling it directly on their site is irrelevant since they link to the site where you can buy it

Yes, that link takes you to where the information is as I posted above.

You (apparently) would be shocked to hear of some of the things marketing departments get away with, that are heavily disclaimered in the small print before the point you accept the T&Cs and pay.

Quote
and because the issue is not where you buy it but rather how it is being advertised by the company that makes it.
A-Eon 'makes' the X1000.
Hyperion 'makes' AmigaOS.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 07:32:34 PM by Boot_WB »
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Offline yssing

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Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2014, 08:04:57 PM »
Lionheart, you really need to come with documentation for your claims.
 

Offline number6

Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2014, 08:07:25 PM »
Quote from: Lionheart;758989

It's only selling point is the name, which it licenses from Amiga Inc. (a company run by a con-artist and used as a shell company for tax evasion)



So, are you accusing Darren Cohen of being a con artist or just his clients whom he answers to...the Kouri family? (evil grin)

#6
 

Offline Lionheart

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Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2014, 09:08:08 PM »
Quote from: Boot_WB;759001
Which specification(s) from your link are you thinking of that aren't supported by A-Eon's hardware?


More like not supported by Amiga OS4. Xena (the onboard XMOS), Xorro (the proprietary hardware slot), on-board sound chip, on-board ethernet chip,...etc.  Although some of the on-board components were supplemented with add-on cards, I can't find the specifications for these components.  Which brings me to my next point: why would anyone be dumb enough to develop and waste money for on-board components that aren't supported only to have to use add-on cards in place of those components (further increasing the cost of the system)?



Quote from: Boot_WB;759001
You (apparently) would be shocked to hear of some of the things marketing departments get away with, that are heavily disclaimered in the small print before the point you accept the T&Cs and pay.


Actually I wouldn't.  I know how marketing works but in order to run a business you also need to cover your ass.  If you're target audience is one that can waste $3,000 on exotic hardware, it makes sense that they probably have enough money to sue you.

Quote from: Boot_WB;759001

A-Eon 'makes' the X1000.
Hyperion 'makes' AmigaOS.


Way to state the obvious genius. (^_~)b

Quote from: yssing;759004
Lionheart, you really need to come with documentation for your claims.


And you really need to be more specific as to what claim you would like documentation for.
 

Offline SACC-guy

Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2014, 09:24:46 PM »
@thread

Come on guys... this 10 post lion vox troll is just trying to get his goats
 

Offline yssing

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Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2014, 10:11:37 PM »
@Lionhart, all of them, if I only wanted a reliant soruce for some of them I would have said so.

@SACC-guy we all know he is a troll, like vox, no worse no better.
 

Offline Hans_

Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2014, 10:39:23 PM »
Quote from: Lionheart;759006
More like not supported by Amiga OS4. Xena (the onboard XMOS), Xorro (the proprietary hardware slot), on-board sound chip, on-board ethernet chip,...etc.  Although some of the on-board components were supplemented with add-on cards, I can't find the specifications for these components.  


Correction, the on-board sound is supported, so you can cross that off your list. The ethernet driver is still being beta tested and, yes, a plug-in card provides networking capabilities in the meantime.

I'm not sure what sort of support you're expecting for Xena & Xorro. Those two items are primarily for developers to play with. It's up to them to create something more useful than just flashing an LED. Developer tools are available, although last time I checked they were still pretty minimal (i.e., enough to get started). Likewise, a Xorro developer board is available for those who wish to design boards for this slot.

Quote from: Lionheart;759006
Which brings me to my next point: why would anyone be dumb enough to develop and waste money for on-board components that aren't supported only to have to use add-on cards in place of those components (further increasing the cost of the system)?

Most likely because development of the drivers for those components proved to be more difficult and take much longer than expected. Providing substitute cards meant that those difficulties didn't further delay the release of the board. It's a compromise.

A-EON may well wish that they had done certain things differently, but at least they're doing something instead of just talking about what should be done and criticising others.

Hans
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Offline Boot_WB

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Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2014, 12:46:05 AM »
Quote from: Lionheart;759006
More like not supported by Amiga OS4. Xena (the onboard XMOS), Xorro (the proprietary hardware slot), on-board sound chip, on-board ethernet chip,...etc.


So that would be 'none' then.
And also: "Way to state the obvious genius."

Quote
Although some of the on-board components were supplemented with add-on cards, I can't find the specifications for these components.


Lazy, or just not that bright? :P

Quote
Which brings me to my next point:


You had a first one?

Quote
why would anyone be dumb enough to develop and waste money for on-board components that aren't supported only to have to use add-on cards in place of those components (further increasing the cost of the system)?


Well, %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!. If I hadn't been making the same point over on AW.net for the past few days I might just disagree on principle. Ah well, point conceded.

Quote
Actually I wouldn't.  I know how marketing works but in order to run a business you also need to cover your ass.  If you're target audience is one that can waste $3,000 on exotic hardware, it makes sense that they probably have enough money to sue you.


And yet apparently you're naive enough to think you can take a marketing document with disclaimers all over it and nail someone to the wall with it in court even though you have inferred meaning way beyond that which is even implied, let alone stated, in the document.
Add to that the informative sales portal which clearly states the limitations of support in the current OS release for said hardware...

Quote
(^_~)b


Oooh, ascii art. I'm in awe of your l33tnessness.
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Offline Lionheart

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Re: How would you rate support to AmigaOS 4 in support forum
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2014, 01:33:37 AM »
Quote from: SACC-guy;759007
@thread

Come on guys... this 10 post lion vox troll is just trying to get his goats


edit by mod: comment deleted. ad hominem attacks are not allowed under our TOS. consider this a warning.

Quote from: yssing;759008
@Lionhart, all of them, if I only wanted a reliant soruce for some of them I would have said so.

@SACC-guy we all know he is a troll, like vox, no worse no better.


Then I suggest you take your own advice and STFU then.  I don't have time to debate with OS4 fanboys who are dumb enough to buy expensive over priced hardware from a company that knows they're stupid enough to buy it as long as they slap an "Amiga" sticker on it.


Quote from: Boot_WB;759016
And yet apparently you're naive enough to think you can take a marketing document with disclaimers all over it and nail someone to the wall with it in court even though you have inferred meaning way beyond that which is even implied, let alone stated, in the document.
Add to that the informative sales portal which clearly states the limitations of support in the current OS release for said hardware...


edit by mod: comment deleted. ad hominem attacks are not allowed under our TOS.

If someone advertises a complete system with a list of features and you find out later on after you bought it that the OS they advertised it with doesn't even support those features, then that's considered false advertisement. I also can't find any mention of the specifications of the add-on cards they used to replace the on-board components they advertised and therefore cannot verify if the specifications are even the same.  

edit by mod: comment deleted. ad hominem attacks are not allowed under our TOS.

Do I think A-Eon could have done more to not misrepresent the capabilities of the computer they're selling? Absolutely.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 02:32:45 AM by eliyahu »