Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Amiga Kit Amiga Store Iridium Banner AMIStore App Store A1200/A600 4xIDE Interface

AuthorTopic: Project: Optical tank mouse  (Read 2378 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mrknight

Project: Optical tank mouse
« on: September 18, 2013, 07:14:23 AM »
My tank mouse is quite unreliable. I've cleaned the rollers and the ball but sometimes the cursor still get stuck. It's quite annoying. I changed to another mouse which works better but still not perfect.

The other day I got an idea; Why not change the ball to an optical sensor? That way I can still use the original tank mouse but with the reliability of an optical mouse. I haven't done much research yet but it seems that if I am to buy a sensor I also need a matching LED and a lens. A better idea might be to buy a cheap mouse and use that sensor.

What are your opinions about this project? Have you done something similar? Is it going to be easy or too complicated? I'd like to hear your opinions.
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Project: Optical tank mouse
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2013, 08:25:25 AM »
Probably be better to gut an existing optical mouse and put it inside the body of a tank mouse, than to do a straight conversion.  Whatever you do, post pics!  :D
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline polyp2000

Re: Project: Optical tank mouse
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2013, 08:39:00 AM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;748287
Probably be better to gut an existing optical mouse and put it inside the body of a tank mouse, than to do a straight conversion.  Whatever you do, post pics!  :D


Better still - make a kickstarter project - Have the case 3D printed and do a small run of them!

Offline Duce

  • Off to greener pastures
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 1699
  • Total likes: 0
    • http://amigabbs.blogspot.com/
Re: Project: Optical tank mouse
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2013, 10:00:54 AM »
Guy did it with an Atari mouse here, but in his case it was pretty much a gut one and stuff it full of another mouse.  Not sure how you'd do it if one wanted to use the original Amiga connector vs. some sort of adapter.  Don't imagine it'd be hard to do if you swapped the guts of an old optical PS2 mouse into the Amiga one and used something like the Micromys adapter, or use a PS2/USB adapter with it in conjunction.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=26542.0
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 10:09:49 AM by Duce »
 

Offline Metalguy66

Re: Project: Optical tank mouse
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2013, 01:58:14 PM »
I would say that someone should make a drop-in replacement PCB for the AMIGA mouse.

But there are several problems. One, all of the optical sensors available now (except surplus stock of obsolete parts) output SPI only. They no longer have "quadrature" outputs. Agilent made some early on that did, but aside from buying them a few at a time for exhorbant prices, it's hard to get your hands on any quantity. So this means youd need an additional microcontroller to take the SPI vector data and use that to generate quadrature output pulses for the AMiga.

Two, the lense assembly would have to be custom made to fit the Amiga mouse case. Injection molding is not cheap, and 3d-printing has not reached the level of precision necessary to do an actual lense.

Best idea for you, is to get one of the availble PS/2 or USB to AMIGA mouse adaptors, and find the PC mouse you really like, and use it..
------------------------------------------------------------------
kjones66@earthlink.net  http://www.rasterline.com
AMIGA & ATARI 8-BIT repairs, upgrades, mods, restoration.
 

Offline salax54

Re: Project: Optical tank mouse
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 06:18:14 PM »
I've done something similar a while ago, to match my Walker replica.
Here's the procedure: http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=21060
However, this does not connect to a real Amiga, the motherboard in the Walker is an ordinary pc; i changed the mouse plug from a USB to a 9-pin DSUB to match the sockets of the case. Inside the case, the cable is extended towards the mobo, and changed back to a USB connector..
Even did the modding of a tank mouse into an optical one while building my A2000PPC mod. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqgdIHVqqrI You can see it in use at 2:31.
If what you want is to use it with an Amiga, you'd either have to find a way to fit something like a cocolino inside the mouse, or rewire stuff inside your Amiga... :hammer:
 

Offline motrucker

Re: Project: Optical tank mouse
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2013, 08:18:00 PM »
It would seem you would have to use an adapter to use the mouse after such surgery. It would no longer be an Amiga mouse.
I just went with the Micromys adapter. They are great, and work with the newest optical mice...
A2000 GVP 40MHz \'030, 21Mb RAM SD/FF, 2 floppies, internal CD-ROM drive, micromys v3 w/laser mouse
A1000 Microbotics Starboard II w/2Mb 1080, & external floppy (AIRdrive)
C-128 w/1571, 1750, & Final Cartridge III+
 

Offline Tenacious

Re: Project: Optical tank mouse
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2013, 10:04:19 PM »
Quote from: salax54;748320

If what you want is to use it with an Amiga, you'd either have to find a way to fit something like a cocolino inside the mouse...  


Not a bad idea.

The tank mouse also had inexpensive contacts for the mouse buttons.  After mine wore out, I tried to replace them with clicky micro switches.  It seems straightforward, but matching the heights and location of the actuating nub was difficult.  My repaired mouse never had a good 'feel'.
 

Offline mrknight

Re: Project: Optical tank mouse
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2013, 12:48:08 AM »
Nice to see your advice/ideas/concerns.

First, I never planned to  find a sensor that output Amiga compatible signals. I can program Atmel  AVR's so that's not a problem. I just have to learn how to read the  data from the sensor and then convert it to Amiga format. If fact, I  have a couple of spare ATtiny2313 with should be useable in a prototype. I probably could find a smaller one that is more production friendly.

I  bought a cheap mouse online and I will gut it and see if I can use the  sensor, lens and LED. What worries me a bit is the space inside the  mouse case. But with the ball out of the way there will hopefully be  enough space to mount the sensor/lens without having to damage the mouse  case.

A new PCB has to be designed. I guess I can use a protype  board to begin with. I haven't designed a PCB for many years but I  guess it's like riding a bike...

Yes, I could get a proper  optical mouse and a signal converter if I wanted, but I like the  challenge. I became and engineer because I like to build and develop  stuff. The end use is secondary.
 

Offline mrknight

Re: Project: Optical tank mouse
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2013, 12:52:25 AM »
Quote from: Tenacious;748338
Not a bad idea.

The tank mouse also had inexpensive contacts for the mouse buttons.  After mine wore out, I tried to replace them with clicky micro switches.  It seems straightforward, but matching the heights and location of the actuating nub was difficult.  My repaired mouse never had a good 'feel'.

Did you change to another kind of switches? Then I can understand if you had problems. I changed both switches in my mouse and I changed it to the very same kind of switch and I never had any problems with the mouse since then.
 

Offline Retrofan

Re: Project: Optical tank mouse
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2013, 02:30:18 AM »
I'm using a tank mouse for my own "C64X": http://eab.abime.net/758139-post74.html

You can use an adaptor to use an optical mice and insert it inside the same way. Unfortunately I don't like very much Mounty's ones (although I'm using one on my A1200), but Kipper2K will make his own version in a near future I hope.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 02:33:04 AM by Retrofan »
A1200, Lateral 32GB CF, internal Dvd, ACA 1230/56 with an MKII Fast ATA at 9,5Mb/s, another A1200 BPPC project in progress (more or less), and posting from my own/better C64x in my Tv using Hdmi.
 

Offline Tenacious

Re: Project: Optical tank mouse
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2013, 02:34:02 AM »
Quote from: mrknight;748345
Did you change to another kind of switches? Then I can understand if you had problems. I changed both switches in my mouse and I changed it to the very same kind of switch and I never had any problems with the mouse since then.


No, I didn't, couldn't find them.  You see the point, though.  The mechanical relationships for the buttons are surprisingly precise.
 

Offline mrknight

Re: Project: Optical tank mouse
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2013, 04:16:26 AM »
Quote from: Tenacious;748350
No, I didn't, couldn't find them.  You see the point, though.  The mechanical relationships for the buttons are surprisingly precise.

If I remember correctly, these are the switches I bought:
http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=S1120

It's in Australia so I guess you can't buy them but at least you can see the specs and name and all that.

Edit:
Found these on eBay. Could be the right one!
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261274322241
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 05:08:59 AM by mrknight »
 

Offline mrknight

Re: Project: Optical tank mouse
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2013, 12:44:40 AM »
An update: I got a $2 optical mouse from eBay and I had a look inside. The sensor is a MX8733 and it has a USB/PS/2 interface. Now I need to read up on the PS/2 and create some kind of MCU based testbed to evaluate it.