Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware  (Read 12425 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline spirantho

Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2013, 06:47:08 AM »
Quote from: minator;743469
If you a attempting a scientific test of a microprocessor running a specific bit of code then the above might be valid, sometimes.  But the result will be completely meaningless because that's not what people buy.


It's still meaningless. If you want I can benchmark a Core i7 and have it produce results slower than an Amiga 500.  That's why it's meaningless, you need to know all the facts and there has to be constraints.

If a benchmark isn't the same across machines, then it has to be transparent, and the differences must be documented.

It's kind of like running quake benchmarks. One person runs it at 1600x1200 with a software renderer, the other plays it with Quake and runs it at 320x200.

Which is the better computer? without all the facts, you can't say. Ergo the benchmark is useless.

Quote

It is not some small part of the system being compared but the entire thing.  It's how fast can system X produce a result compared to system Y.


Which only makes that benchmark valid for that operation using that software, and shouldn't be used in the computing equivalent of "my dad can beat up your Dad" arguments.  It tells you nothing because it doesn't tell you where the bottleneck is.
You could run the same task now and have a wildly different result, therefore you're testing the software (which can get changed) and applying it to the system. That is not good benchmarking! At the very least it should be made clear the EXACT system being benchmarked, the software used, the compiler used and the compilation options. For all we know he could have used numbers from a debug version!


Quote
Consider the Top500 supercomputer list.  It tests systems where *everything* is different.  You are not only allowed to modify the source code but you are expected to!


I suspect those will more tightly regulated. I severely doubt the  Top500 is worked out by trawling the forums for numbers and not even knowing what changes were made and what the systems were, which is how that graph came about
--
Ian Gledhill
ian.gledhill@btinternit.com (except it should be internEt of course...!)
Check out my shop! http://www.mutant-caterpillar.co.uk/shop/ - for 8-bit (and soon 16-bit) goodness!
 

Offline itix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 2380
    • Show only replies by itix
Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2013, 10:39:18 AM »
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline itix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 2380
    • Show only replies by itix
Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2013, 11:10:15 AM »
Ehm...

Quote from: spirantho;743454
Those timing graphs are completely irrelevant. They were made by Piru (a MorphOS developer), and do not compare like with like (the different versions were made on different people's systems with a different version of the software, probably compiled by a different compiler) - they're not comparing one system with another, they're comparing a truckload of variables, making the comparison useless for anything except propaganda.


Ok...

Quote

I believe the order for most uses of AmigaOS 4 is:
AmigaOne X1000
Pegasos II G4
AmigaOne XE G4
Sam 460 1.1GHz
Sam 440 Flex and EP (faster CPU, 800MHz)
Pegasos II G3 600MHz
Sam 440 Flex and EP (Slower CPU, <733MHz)
AmigaOne XE G3
Micro-A1
CS-PPC
Blizzard PPC


We are very scientific here, arent we?

I mean, good that you are critical. But denying benchmarks and providing your own chart based on personal feelings does not compute :)
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline Blizz1220

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 189
    • Show only replies by Blizz1220
Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2013, 11:59:36 AM »
@Itix

Completely OT here but I was just wondering how possible would
it be to develop OS4Emu for LinuxPPC ...

Might get some more "accurate" results in benchmarking :crazy:
 

Offline spirantho

Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2013, 12:31:08 PM »
Quote from: itix;743499
Ehm...

Ok...

We are very scientific here, arent we?


Don't see anything wrong with that :)

Quote

I mean, good that you are critical. But denying benchmarks and providing your own chart based on personal feelings does not compute :)


I'm not "denying" benchmarks, I'm just saying that they're not providing the whole picture, which they're not. Heck, we don't even know if Altivec was enabled for both platforms, and if so in what Altivec was used.

My chart is an impression from my own usage of hardware and from what other people have said. But I'm not passing it off as fact, that's the difference - it's just an (educated) impression.

What's most annoying, though, is that the OP was quite specific about what he wanted - an OS4 speed comparison - and yet the same old MorphOS benchmarks get wheeled out of retirement. Who cares how fast a G5 Mac is when you want to run OS4?
--
Ian Gledhill
ian.gledhill@btinternit.com (except it should be internEt of course...!)
Check out my shop! http://www.mutant-caterpillar.co.uk/shop/ - for 8-bit (and soon 16-bit) goodness!
 

Offline _ThEcRoW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2005
  • Posts: 753
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by _ThEcRoW
Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2013, 02:27:28 PM »
Since when os4 hardware has altivec?. Probably x1000 the only one, and then software isn't taking advantage of it.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 02:33:49 PM by _ThEcRoW »
Amiga 1200 desktop. Apollo 030/50 Mhz 8mb ram + ClassicWB + Wb 3.1
Amiga 500 + ACA500Plus + 16gb CF | ECS Power!!!
C64 DTV + Keyboard mod. Waiting for a 1541 disk ve...
Mac Mini G4 1.42Ghz 1gb OSX(tiger)/Morphos 3.7 Registered
C64mini + usb drive with loads of games...
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2013, 02:50:09 PM »
Quote from: _ThEcRoW;743512
Since when os4 hardware has altivec?. Probably x1000 the only one, and then software isn't taking advantage of it.


Peg2 G4 does and maybe the A1XE.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline ThemambomanTopic starter

  • Lifetime Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 164
    • Show only replies by Themamboman
Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2013, 03:09:51 PM »
Quote from: magnetic;743484
once again to debate the speed of the cpu is kind of laughable when you have an OS that is optimized and super fast on even slow processors. WIthout any real software to use this horsepower whats the point? And again, without proper video drivers quite useless as many sam people have discovered.



So, as a potential SAM440ep-flex buyer, what should I look out for?  I'm already planning to get the RadeonHD driver, a mid-to-high end PCIe RadeonHD card (with pci-to-pcie adapter, of the kind recommended by the RadeonHD website).
 

Offline som99

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2005
  • Posts: 1566
    • Show only replies by som99
    • http://www.som99.se
Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2013, 04:02:20 PM »
Quote from: Themamboman;743518
So, as a potential SAM440ep-flex buyer, what should I look out for?  I'm already planning to get the RadeonHD driver, a mid-to-high end PCIe RadeonHD card (with pci-to-pcie adapter, of the kind recommended by the RadeonHD website).


As a SAM440ep-flex owner (800MHz version) I have bought the PCI to PCI-E adapter but haven't gotten hold of any drivers yet :(
 

Offline Tom01

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 8
    • Show only replies by Tom01
Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2013, 04:34:46 PM »
Lame and Blender are altivec enabled on MorphOS and AOS4 for PA6T, G4 and G5 cpus.
This is not comparism of cpus, but of complete systems with software that is available on the respective systems.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 03:47:33 PM by Tom01 »
 

Offline ThemambomanTopic starter

  • Lifetime Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 164
    • Show only replies by Themamboman
Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2013, 04:40:32 PM »
Quote from: som99;743522
As a SAM440ep-flex owner (800MHz version) I have bought the PCI to PCI-E adapter but haven't gotten hold of any drivers yet :(


Is this what you need?

http://hdrlab.org.nz/projects/amiga-os-4-projects/radeonhd-driver/

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1107

http://www.a-eon.com/?page=radeonhd
 

Offline ChaosLord

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2003
  • Posts: 2608
    • Show only replies by ChaosLord
    • http://totalchaoseng.dbv.pl/news.php
Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2013, 04:41:35 PM »
Quote from: som99;743522
As a SAM440ep-flex owner (800MHz version) I have bought the PCI to PCI-E adapter but haven't gotten hold of any drivers yet :(


Why can't you get the drivers?

Don't drivers come with the computer?
Wanna try a wonderfull strategy game with lots of handdrawn anims,
Magic Spells and Monsters, Incredible playability and lastability,
English speech, etc. Total Chaos AGA
 

Offline som99

  • Lifetime Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2005
  • Posts: 1566
    • Show only replies by som99
    • http://www.som99.se
Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2013, 05:04:46 PM »
Quote from: Themamboman;743526
Is this what you need?

http://hdrlab.org.nz/projects/amiga-os-4-projects/radeonhd-driver/

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1107

http://www.a-eon.com/?page=radeonhd


Oh thanks, didn't think of looking at amigakit to buy them :) Now I will give my SAM a go with a RadeonHD 6750 :) (using a flexible PCI Riser so full height cards ain't no problem)

Quote from: ChaosLord;743527
Why can't you get the drivers?

Don't drivers come with the computer?


AOS4.x does not come with RadeonHD drivers, I thought they where not for sale yet and still in beta (im quite new on AOS4.x) but now I got a link by Themamboman and will order the driver CD from amigakit for €43.04 :)

So as soon as the CD arrives ill give it a whirl :)
 

Offline itix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 2380
    • Show only replies by itix
Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2013, 06:36:08 PM »
Quote from: Blizz1220;743503
@Itix

Completely OT here but I was just wondering how possible would
it be to develop OS4Emu for LinuxPPC ...


Just create modified version of AROS.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline itix

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 2380
    • Show only replies by itix
Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2013, 06:57:14 PM »
Quote from: spirantho;743505

I'm not "denying" benchmarks, I'm just saying that they're not providing the whole picture, which they're not. Heck, we don't even know if Altivec was enabled for both platforms, and if so in what Altivec was used.


I posted a link to thread where these benchmarks were discussed 18 months ago. Go read it and find out what conditions were used.

There is no Altivec in SAM so it doesnt matter was Altivec enabled or not (lame benchmarks). I dont know if X1000 has Altivec or not. But if you go read that thread you are likely to find it out.

Quote
What's most annoying, though, is that the OP was quite specific about what he wanted - an OS4 speed comparison - and yet the same old MorphOS benchmarks get wheeled out of retirement. Who cares how fast a G5 Mac is when you want to run OS4?


There is OS4 speed comparison. Just filter out Macs and you get what you wanted. The hardware selection is quite scarce from OS4 user POV but these are the best benchmarks we have.
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline Blizz1220

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jan 2013
  • Posts: 189
    • Show only replies by Blizz1220
Re: Speed rankings of Next Gen hardware
« Reply #44 from previous page: August 03, 2013, 06:59:32 PM »
Quote from: itix;743533
Just create modified version of AROS.

I didn't even think about it that way tnx ...

Not that it would be badly needed either ...