Ease off bashing AmigaONE X1000?

[Hans_]

Oh spare me the crap about how hard and expensive it is. I work at intel and see other engineers doing things here all the time for nearly nothing on hardware they just toss together to test ideas. As mentioned if the Raspberry-PI guys can build a machine as cheap as they do I dont want to hear how hard it is to get it done. I see it every single day I go to work.

The Raspberry Pi is built around a single ARM SoC with everything that they need, including GPU. They also took full advantage of available Linux drivers, and manufacturing at higher volumes than we're talking about. If something similar existed in the PowerPC world, then it would definitely be much easier. But, it doesn't.

Anyway, why don't you prove me wrong then. Go and "toss together" a PowerPC motherboard with PCIe & PCI slots, make sure that every bit of hardware on the board has AmigaOS 4.x drivers before putting it on the market, and sell it for a reasonable price.

Good luck. You're going to need it. ;-)

Hans


P.S. The Raspberry Pi is pretty slow and very limited (e.g., slow SD-Card, no SATA, etc.). It suffers (amongst other things) from bandwidth constraints caused by the CPU and GPU sharing bandwidth. Comparing what A-Eon is doing with the Raspberry Pi is a bit of a joke.

P.P.S. Did you factor in the salaries of those engineers at Intel when you calculated that their exploits cost "nearly nothing"?

[vox]

Oh spare me the crap about how hard and expensive it is. I work at intel and see other engineers doing things here all the time for nearly nothing on hardware they just toss together to test ideas. As mentioned if the Raspberry-PI guys can build a machine as cheap as they do I dont want to hear how hard it is to get it done. I see it every single day I go to work.

Good. We are all eager to see someone (you) producing competition, a PPC board of any kind that will be supported by MorphOS/AmigaOS 4, including software support afterwards. Its always easy to say something someone else is suppose to do is easy.

Again, Pi is total low end, powerful like a smartphone, with software  was developed by 3rd parties and produced in at least 10 000 bacthes to  get as low price as possible.

So spare us the crap. I see it every single day on TV - fluffy promises of what could be done.

[gertsy]

....
Anyway, why don't you prove me wrong then. Go and "toss together" a PowerPC motherboard with PCIe & PCI slots, make sure that every bit of hardware on the board has AmigaOS 4.x drivers before putting it on the market, and sell it for a reasonable price.

....

A bit of tossing going on here.  But agree. If there was money to be made it would be happening. There isn't, so it's not. Simple as that.  Those who are in it do it for more than money but also do it sustainably.

It would be great if you could successfully build a hardware/OS product by community/committee but you can't.

[agami]

As long as we agree that 'ease off" does not mean stopping altogether.

And how's that Xena "custom" chip working for y'all. Is it rocking your world? Is the community coming up with all sorts of amazing uses for it?

[eliyahu]

And how's that Xena "custom" chip working for y'all. Is it rocking your world? Is the community coming up with all sorts of amazing uses for it?

cheap, trolling comments like that are exactly what is not needed in a grown-up discussion. if you already know the answer to that question, and you know it's a sore point, then bringing it up deliberately to stir the pot is trolling.

don't do it again.

-- eliyahu

[haywirepc]

XENA is awesome. People with X1000's can open up their case and show people the chip. definitely worth 3k by itself.

:quickdraw:

[Megamig]

Hardware is fully functional and its not a prototype.
Fact that OS 4.1 does not support all its features (but Linux does) is well known. Having it out now is better then waiting 2014 or so for OS 4.2 to be out. As well as you get license for OS 4.2

a) Who would spend $3,000+ on a Linux machine?
b) A-EON should discount the x1000 until fully operational under OS 4.x
c) A license to 4.2 is not worth thousands of dollars
 
Back to the Raspberry Pi argument. You could buy 90+ (model b) or 125+ (model a) for the same cost as one X1000. Some people like C= USA and E-on believe that just because you add a Amiga logo or use a model designation such as 1000 it warrants a huge premium.
 
So where does this put Individual computers? Should Jens start selling his ACA cards @ $600+ each, his Indivision @ $1,000 because of the limited market. There is a lot that can be learned from Individual Computers such as reasonable pricing and innovative products. As far as those bitching about modifying their Amiga 1200s to get ACA cards to work - buy a X1000 if you can't be bothered.

[Megamig]

@haywirepc
 
There is only one Xena worth talking about. Xena: Warrior Princess!

[TheMagicM]

I dont care.   I use MorphOS 3.2 and a G5.  :-)

[nicholas]

I dont care.   I use MorphOS 3.2 and a G5.  :-)

+1

[smerf]

Hi,

Don't know what to really say on this subject, but I do use Amiga Forever on my Windows machines and it keeps me smiling.

SOS just another day

smerf

[James2002]

a) Who would spend $3,000+ on a Linux machine?
b) A-EON should discount the x1000 until fully operational under OS 4.x
c) A license to 4.2 is not worth thousands of dollars
 
Back to the Raspberry Pi argument. You could buy 90+ (model b) or 125+ (model a) for the same cost as one X1000. Some people like C= USA and E-on believe that just because you add a Amiga logo or use a model designation such as 1000 it warrants a huge premium.

I agree with you prices is everything. Even with my prepaid card I can only fit $2,500.00 on it.  I dont have enough credit to even buy that.  C=USA was very over priced on everything.

Would I love to buy Amiga computer? Yes if it was reasonable price. The biggest concern is how many people will buy overpriced hobby.  When I build my computers I try to stay under 600.00 USA dollars.

Operation system that works with hardware is a must.

[slayer]

This may be slightly off-topic but, given the above, here's some of what I like about "Project Cyrus" (the future A1-X2000):
- Freescale have committed to long-term supply of the CPU, so any work done supporting it will last years
- There's an upgrade path to a high-end quad-core machine (via the P5040) without requiring reengineering of the board, or a single new driver to be written
- Choosing an already supprted sound-card instead of having an audio chip on-board lowers board costs, board design & testing costs, and eliminates the need to create yet another driver (or scrounge around for a supported chip that will remain available long-term)

Spot on Hans :pint:

[klx300r]

The incessantly negative attitude of many on A.org has definitely driven away a number of good members. If you look on places like AW.net where it's a much more friendly forum for all flavours, you'll probably find a number of members who used to frequent here....

broken record still playing here I see:smack:
@ eliyahu

+1 for effort! I can just see your lip bleeding from biting down on it so hard mate

[Duce]

It's not an issue of the X1000 being slammed specifically here.  Harsh, insulting criticisms from people driving their own personal preferences has long been an issue here.  Any given week it might crop up as "Oh well OS4 sucks 'cuz MOS has a pretty butterfly logo", or "MOS sux cause OS4 is actually called Amiga OS and has the boing ball".  There's weirdo zealots on each side.  It's mutually assured destruction at its finest, really.  A bunch of people using obscure OS's no one in the real world has really heard of, let alone used - arguing semantics rather than simply use what they prefer and encourage the scene as a whole without any of this OS propaganda nonsense.  It's like arguing religion.  There's no winner, there's just what fits your ideals personally the best.  You use what you like, I'll use what I like.  Try everything you can and make your own choices, and discuss opinions civilly.  You'll be a better person and have more fun if you try everything you can get your hands on and make your choices from all the offerings.

I use them all, OS4, MOS, and fiddled with AROS a bit.  I can offer slamming criticism to each of them, and praises to each of them.  I understand those saying OS4 hardware is terribly overpriced and I've often darn near prayed for Hyperion to support the PPC Mac lineage.  I admittedly overpaid greatly for underpowered OS4 hardware in late 2008 when I pre-ordered my SAM 440.  I am using MOS more and more (and have paid for it), and becoming more familiar with it, but it's still a bit foreign to me and I don't really like old Mac hardware,  so I still prefer OS4 at this time.  I was extremely disappointed after buying a PPC Mac laptop with the understanding the onboard, in-built Wireless would be supported in the most recent MOS release, which it isn't.  AROS I've never been able to get running 100% solid, but I am still fiddling with it and hope to gain more experience with it.  Each OS, or hardware platform - we will all have different experiences with each offering and we'll all end up using what we most prefer.  What each individual "prefers" does not quantify their OS of choice as "the best and only real Amiga solution".  We are all Amigans, and it drives me nuts when people seem to get off on driving factional lines between something as personally preferential as OS choice.  If your OS of choice differs from mine, I'd *LOVE* to hear your opinions on it in a civil fashion - but the "Derp, u use Brand X OS variant, u r a poopyhead" argument gets real old, and people HAVE left A.org over it.

To blatantly chide users of an "enemy OS" in the Amiga scene is cutting off your nose to spite your face.  There are facts and opinions, both are easy to flesh out and discuss openly and politely.  Give your opinions.  Opinions are not fact.  Open conversation about our choices in what is a very small hobby computing market is what at one time made this forum site what I considered the best Amiga site on the web.  Nowadays, it can tend to resemble people flinging feces at each other like zoo monkeys.

Open, civil criticism of different variations of what is essentially the same darned thing for all intents and purposes is counter productive at best, and horribly destructive and childish at worst.  Civil criticism can be done as easily as venom filled bits of diatribe here, and the latter only makes you look as someone pushing an agenda.  Foolish at best.

Just once I'd like to see us all get on the same page.  We're all running the same race here.  It's a hobby, and I do find it shameful and redundant to still be playing the "OS Wars" cards that we were playing in the 1980's era Amiga vs. IBM compatible days.  We don't have the numbers to drive wedges between factions, as a whole.

So much time is wasted driving wedges between the "camps" - wouldn't it be just great if we could simply agree that we're all Amigans and maybe use our time better to get more up to date programs like Open Office, modern printer drivers or modern, capable web browsers on *ALL* these "modern" Amiga's?

[vox]

I agree with you prices is everything. Even with my prepaid card I can  only fit $2,500.00 on it.  I dont have enough credit to even buy that.   C=USA was very over priced on everything.

Points you displayed as quote are filled  and agreed with sarcasm and bashing. There is a civil way to see the same. But yet even at A.org majority of voters says bashing is undeserved or that it should stop.

Would I love to buy Amiga computer? Yes if it was reasonable price. The  biggest concern is how many people will buy overpriced hobby.  

You can get better credit card, or reach for classic bank loan. Or take cheaper model, you know its not the only one.
A lot of people wish to have high end Mac but often can buy just basic one. In time, patience and saving, you can reach a goal.
Not just everything instantly.

Operation system that works with hardware is a must.

You are right about the OS, but sometimes is required to go first with  hardware. If we see AOS 4.2 2014, should Trevor wait so long with X1000?  In reality we got AOS 4.1.6 as it is for X1000, and X2000 developed  meanwhile. I don`t see failure in both.

When I build my computers I try to stay under 600.00 USA dollars.

You have SAM 440 in your league.

a) Who would spend $3,000+ on a Linux machine?

Who would buy $3000 Linux machine you say?

Answer is provided within - a true Linux (and AmigaOS) geek.

b) A-EON should discount the x1000 until fully operational under OS 4.x

You mean Hyperion should step up from its 115 euros? Well, even unplanned, they have made 4.1.6 work and I express gratitude for that

`c) A license to 4.2 is not worth thousands of dollars

No, but at least I will not pay for OS once its done. Its worth about 115 euros.

I find parallel with C-USA very offending. Yes AmigaOne has Amiga name and logo, but for true reason as it runs AmigaOS, and not licensed to resell common x86 hardware with their themed Linux. Its design that never existed before, to whom AmigaOS was ported and deserves credit.

AmigaOS survival doesn`t stand on X1000 - there are SAMs.

But path forward obviously has something to do with it.

Parallel would be most of MorphOS users crying because they just can`t find enough used G5 Macs, or finding them not fully used or terribly overpriced, and add to bonus with Mac logo ...

@Duce

So much time is wasted driving wedges between the "camps" - wouldn't it  be just great if we could simply agree that we're all Amigans and maybe  use our time better to get more up to date programs like Open Office,  modern printer drivers or modern, capable web browsers on *ALL* these  "modern" Amiga's?       

Agreed, my parallels use MorphOS just because that is OS in state most similar to AOS4 (PPC, RAM limits, similarly small community ...)