Philosophical Question - Amiguing

[OlafS3]

You would blast yourself from the road, I suspect.

Propably... but it would the fastest drive of all times :-)

[OlafS3]

Hmmm, there are other improvements as well, not only the engine.
About "Direct Access", I agree. But the reason why they don't do that anymore (IMHO) (Windows, at least) is because they have to support a very large selection of hardware. It's impossible to do unless you have some abstraction layers. But, I think we might be moving away from that. Apple seems to be heading to that direction constructing iOS. At a certain level, they know exactly what to expect and they would be able to use more the true power of the hardware...

I hope that AROS will come to a point somewhen in future with full multicore support. AROS running natively on newest hardware with full support that would certainly become the fastest platform on earth. Of course if you call it "Amiga" or not then is a matter of definition.

[nicholas]

I hope that AROS will come to a point somewhen in future with full multicore support. AROS running natively on newest hardware with full support that would certainly become the fastest platform on earth. Of course if you call it "Amiga" or not then is a matter of definition.

That would be very cool indeed, but I reckon MenuetOS might be a tad faster.

http://www.menuetos.net

[psxphill]

it does not make the "challenge harder" because the system might be more complex but you have much better development environments than on any amiga-platform.

I don't think you read what I wrote. I was saying that it's more challenging to write Amiga software. Anything you can do on an Amiga in assembler you can do in C# on a modern PC and it's much easier to write the code and debug it.
 

"Bloated" here means much more overhead and they were programmed for resource-rich environments whereas AmigaOS runs on even limited systems.

Instead of bloated, you should use "feature rich". A lot of the overhead comes from features that everyone wants in AmigaOS/AROS that would completely break every piece of Amiga software ever and make it run much slower.
 

You can see on AROS 68k how hard it is to get even near the efficiency of AmigaOS 68k.

AROS 68k is slow because nobody has spent the time to make it fast. It would have helped if they'd had x86 & 68k versions on day one. Microsoft went through the same pain with Windows on ARM, which means that Windows 8 on x86 is faster than previous versions.

[agami]

Sure it is... for you, and you can't speak for everyone.

Can you please stop speaking for everyone?

What an absolute nonsense :rolleyes:

Sure I can, I am eminently qualified to do so and am often asked to do just that.
My qualifications aside, the defensive responses you and others have made in response to the original philosophical question are revealing enough, but here is some science to go with what I'm stating:

If you, myself, or any other Amiga user who originally used an Amiga in the late '80s and early '90s were placed in an FMRI and then you, me, or any of them engaged in their favourite use of the Amiga i.e. playing a game, modifying the GUI/MUI, coding; the areas of the brain that would light up would be the same as those relating to nostalgia.

There have been numerous neurological and psychological experiments done on the subject of nostalgia, by all means do your own research to better inform yourself.

[Thorham]

Sure I can, I am eminently qualified to do so and am often asked to do just that.

Of course you are :lol:

the defensive responses you and others have made in response to the original philosophical question are revealing enough

Just responding to what I see as pure nonsense.

but here is some science to go with what I'm stating:

If you, myself, or any other Amiga user who originally used an Amiga in the late '80s and early '90s were placed in an FMRI and then you, me, or any of them engaged in their favourite use of the Amiga i.e. playing a game, modifying the GUI/MUI, coding; the areas of the brain that would light up would be the same as those relating to nostalgia.

There have been numerous neurological and psychological experiments done on the subject of nostalgia, by all means do your own research to better inform yourself.

I don't need science to tell me how I feel. The very notion is absurd.

[commodorejohn]

Sure I can, I am eminently qualified to do so and am often asked to do just that.

Really? Do tell! Where does one go to get a degree in Speaking for Absolutely Goddam Everyone?

My qualifications aside, the defensive responses you and others have made in response to the original philosophical question are revealing enough

Ooh, fun. It's been far too long since we had an amateur armchair-psychology smackdown.

If you, myself, or any other Amiga user who originally used an Amiga in the late '80s and early '90s were placed in an FMRI and then you, me, or any of them engaged in their favourite use of the Amiga i.e. playing a game, modifying the GUI/MUI, coding; the areas of the brain that would light up would be the same as those relating to nostalgia.

There have been numerous neurological and psychological experiments done on the subject of nostalgia, by all means do your own research to better inform yourself.

But tell me, what about those of us who didn't use an Amiga way back when? Obviously we can't have the level of nostalgia you're implying here, since we don't have a history with it.

And I'd like to know by what line of reasoning nostalgia and knowingly-considered positive assessments are mutually exclusive, anyway.

[agami]

Really? Do tell! Where does one go to get a degree in Speaking for Absolutely Goddam Everyone?

Political Sciences at pretty much any university.

But tell me, what about those of us who didn't use an Amiga way back when? Obviously we can't have the level of nostalgia you're implying here, since we don't have a history with it.

Nostalgia only applies to something experienced in the past, so obviously a person who gets on an Amiga today for the first time cannot be nostalgic. That wasn't what the original question was about.

And I'd like to know by what line of reasoning nostalgia and knowingly-considered positive assessments are mutually exclusive, anyway.

One is related to sense memory and the other isn't.

[commodorejohn]

Political Sciences at pretty much any university.

Cute.

Nostalgia only applies to something experienced in the past, so obviously a person who gets on an Amiga today for the first time cannot be nostalgic. That wasn't what the original question was about.

The original question made no such distinctions, using an unqualified "we" and implying that any such reactions were unlikely to be due to anything but nostalgia.

One is related to sense memory and the other isn't.

I didn't ask what the difference was, I asked where this idea that you can't have nostalgic fondness for something and at the same time have a conscious, reasoned appreciation for it comes from.

[agami]

I didn't ask what the difference was, I asked where this idea that you can't have nostalgic fondness for something and at the same time have a conscious, reasoned appreciation for it comes from.

It has been conclusively proven that in the presence of sense memory surrounding a subject matter, be it positive or negative, a person can never form an objective assessment related to the same subject matter. It has to do with how the amygdala consolidates emotion originating in the limbic brain with other related aspects from higher level brain functions into the hippocampus.

The limbic brain is very simple, there aren't multiple areas for the different kinds of love one may feel i.e. love of a partner, love of a child, love of a friend or family member, love of a pet, or love of inanimate objects. All those hit the same area. Of course with differing intensity and also filtered through some of the higher brains to provide context. Same goes for dislike or hate. And with animals and inanimate objects like a car or a computer we assist this emotional bond through anthropomorphism.

We can certainly discuss things objectively and we can produce written materials that read objectively, when we think about them in absence of any emotional context. But the instant we start adding adjectives describing emotions like 'I enjoy' or 'it's fun', we are automatically applying a subjective view.

[spirantho]

If you, myself, or any other Amiga user who originally used an Amiga in the late '80s and early '90s were placed in an FMRI and then you, me, or any of them engaged in their favourite use of the Amiga i.e. playing a game, modifying the GUI/MUI, coding; the areas of the brain that would light up would be the same as those relating to nostalgia.

Sure, when I'm playing a game of Cannon Fodder, the nostalgic response would trigger.

BUT (and it's a big but)....

So would the part of the brain governing enjoyment. The fact that there are nostalgic impulses in the brain does not over-ride or replace the same impulse that were triggered in the first place. It's not just nostalgic, it's an enjoyment. If you take away the nostalgic influence, and put us in the FMRI right now, it would still trigger the enjoyment parts of the brain.

For instance: if I play Cannon Fodder now, I get a nostalgic "glow", and also enjoyment from playing it. But if I fire up a game I've never played before, such as "Defender of the Crown", I just get the enjoyment. There is no nostalgia as I've not done it before.
"Ah!", you're probably thinking, "but the association is still there as you're using the same computer".
But what if I play it on a different computer? Is it still nostalgia? I'm not using the same computer, nor the same game. It's a new experience to me. Does that stop me enjoying it? Of course not. Maybe you'd say that I associate the different computer with my old one, but we're getting a bit tenuous here.
Maybe you'd say that the technology reminds me of the time, and it's the time I'm nostalgic for.... but in that case what about youngsters? My wife was playing Sonic recently, and she never had Sonic and was born in 1990. Was it nostalgia? Of course not, she grew up for the most part in the 2000's. When she enjoys an Amiga game, is she nostalgic? No, she just enjoys it. Heck, she loves playing Wizard War on my Dragon 32 and she's about 8 years younger that game!

And now we come to another point. When I was growing up, I wasn't coding PCI drivers for Amigas in ANSI C. I was using Sinclair BASIC to write little games and stuff. The two are completely different, I never did these things back then, so how can I get nostalgic? My AmigaOS 4 machine is completely different to what I was using back then, the only similarity is the OS, but even that is far advanced from what I had in the 90's.

Sure, nostalgia plays a part in many uses of the Amiga, but NOT ALL of them.
Call me defensive, delusional, whatever, but sweeping generalisations about everybody in any one group is not good psychology! Just because one person in a set associates using an Amiga with his childhood does not mean that the same holds true for the rest of us. We are all different. As a psychologist you will know how complicated the brain can be. There are any number of sensory experiences associated with our actions, nostalgia is but one of a million.

Saying that everybody has the same reason for using a particular computer is completely indefensible. You might as well blame it on our parents.

[Boot_WB]

My favourite film is "The Producers" from 1967. Nostalgia? No, it's just an awesome film.

I watched it for the first time a few months back on a friend's recommendation. Hilarious!

Off topic:
A good record player and a good record will have very little noise or resonance, and the detail is astounding - especially when compared to a CD. Admittedly you need a really good set-up, but it's quite possible (my Linn set-up being an example!)

Absolutely. Dark Side of the Moon tends to be one of my 'refefence' albums to see the level of detail in the overdubbed voices. I have a nice Rogers A100 Amp, but my turntable is in need of a new stylus (currently unusable).
It's no Linn, but a custom 'Connoisseur' kit from the 70s which is belt-driven by a 16-pole 240 AC motor with a simple gearing to 33 1/3 and 45 at 50Hz - beautfully smoothed by the high rotational inertia of the (quite heavy cast gunmetal) platter and gives no discernable wow/flutter.
Simple & elegant technology based on understandable physical quantities & geometry, a syunthesis of electrical and mechanical engineering.
(Lots of shiny brass grub-screw fittings & gimble for the tonearm too. :-) )

[spirantho]

Thus proving that Amiga people - no matter what flavour of AmigaOS they use, 3.x, 4.x, MorphOS or AROS - all have two things in common:
taste and discernment.

[Megamig]

Lets put it this way. Using sex as a metaphor
 
Amiga = A easy partner who is ready in an instant
Windoze = Requires loads of foreplay to be of any use
Atari TOS = For those who lack taste or sight
Mac OS = Frigid and useless
Linux = By the time you figure it out you are over it
 
Amigas are cherished for their user friendliness, simplicity and ease of use.
End of story!

[nicholas]

Do your vinyl justice and play them on a Technics SL-1200/1210 with Ortorfon carts.

No point having a great amp and speakers if you're not feeding them the best input.

[Mrs Beanbag]

Lets put it this way. Using sex as a metaphor

Um no, let's not put it that way.