Does Linux have an Amiga feel?

[commodorejohn]

I thought you were both writing roughly the same thing.

Not remotely...
 

The majority of people only use facetwitmytube, they only need a simple appliance.

I have my doubts about that assertion (they really don't use a computer for anything else?) and I certainly don't buy his 95% figure, unless he can come up with some data to back it and isn't just pulling it out of his ass.

He is making the distinction of people using facebook or html5, but that is just for comparison of user types.

Unless I misunderstand, when he mentions HTML5 he's talking about web authoring using HTML5, not browsing HTML5 sites.

There are plenty of ways you can consume and plenty of ways you can create.

There are indeed, but he (along with pretty much every other tablet zealot) is claiming that the majority (95%, according to him) of people just aren't creative and only exist to be media-consuming couch potatoes, and therefore the creative potential of a platform is irrelevant and nobody needs a real computer.

In the UK they are talking about teaching programming in schools again (they only teach you how to use things like word, excel, some form of database right now).

And it's high friggin' time.

[persia]

Surely you mean in secondary education, they must still teach programming at the tertiary level.

I thought you were both writing roughly the same thing.
 
The majority of people only use facetwitmytube, they only need a simple appliance. He is making the distinction of people using facebook or html5, but that is just for comparison of user types. Not because facebook and html5 are the only thing you can use a computer for. There are plenty of ways you can consume and plenty of ways you can create. In the UK they are talking about teaching programming in schools again (they only teach you how to use things like word, excel, some form of database right now).

[persia]

And what is creative?  There are video, audio and image editing apps on iOS, surely this is being creative.

[ChaosLord]

And an entry-level computer in either desktop or laptop form factor can be had for less than half that, if you even buy it new from an OEM; and it can run a far broader range of much more useful software. Your point?

My entry level desktop PC cost $99.00 brand new in 2004 from a respectable retailer.  The next year I went back bought another one for $99.00.

It came in a case with a power supply all put together.  A normal retail computer.  It came with a PS/2 mouse and a PS/2 keyboard.  It came with 4 USB ports, 1 VGA port, 1 Ethernet 100Mbps port,  1 floppy drive, 1 40GB hard drive, 512MB of RAM (expandable to 2GB but I only expanded it to 1GB), PCI slots and an AGP gfx card slot.  It had a 1.5Ghz AMD Sempron 2200 processor.  It came with an onboard gfx chip that did various resolutions up to and including 1280x1024x16.7 Million colors @ 60 hz.  It also came with a CD-ROM drive and some empty drive bays so I could expand it, which I did later add a DVD-Burner for $49.00 and a 500GB drive for $119.00



I am pretty sure that a $99.00 PC in 2004 beats a $500.00 ipad in 2013 price-wise and reliability-wise.

[psxphill]

Surely you mean in secondary education, they must still teach programming at the tertiary level.

Higher education isn't called a school in the UK. Even people with degrees barely know how to program these days.
 

And what is creative? There are video, audio and image editing apps on iOS, surely this is being creative.

Probably something you could make money from. Editing your selfies doesn't really count.

[commodorejohn]

And what is creative?  There are video, audio and image editing apps on iOS, surely this is being creative.

There are; they're not as good as PC software for the equivalent tasks, both because of the inherent limitations of the platform (image editing by dragging your fingers all over the very image you're trying to work on? No thanks!) and because Apple's design standards emphasize simplicity over capability because otherwise the poor dear users might get confused or something.

Probably something you could make money from. Editing your selfies doesn't really count.

I wouldn't restrict it that much; plenty of people do creative stuff as a hobby. But yes, editing selfies and noodling on a crappy touch-piano is nothing like real digital painting or arranging music in a home studio.

[persia]

@commodorejohn

Actually I've been meaning to challenge something that you have been implying, that less people are programming when the evidence clearly points to more people programming than ever.  Just look at the App store or Google Play.

I also find it ironic that you as an Amiga fan would talk about limited apps, iOS has apps far more sophisticated than Deluxe Paint or the video toaster software, so if using 'limited" apps is an issue why do you still use an Amiga?

[persia]

Your original message does not contain the word "school."  It contains the word "teach" something they do in primary, secondary and tertiary institutions.

Higher education isn't called a school in the UK. Even people with degrees barely know how to program these days.
 

 
Probably something you could make money from. Editing your selfies doesn't really count.

[commodorejohn]

Actually I've been meaning to challenge something that you have been implying, that less people are programming when the evidence clearly points to more people programming than ever.  Just look at the App store or Google Play.

I never implied any such thing. You've been the one maintaining that 95% of people (a figure that you still have yet to back up in any way) don't program or do any other creative pursuits on PCs and only need Facebook and email and that's why nobody needs PCs anymore. (Don't pretend this isn't what you were saying. I'll go back and grab the quotes if you want.)

I also find it ironic that you as an Amiga fan would talk about limited apps, iOS has apps far more sophisticated than Deluxe Paint or the video toaster software, so if using 'limited" apps is an issue why do you still use an Amiga?

"More sophisticated" in terms of overall horsepower applied to a task? Sure; even the original iPhone beats out an Amiga for that. And some iOS software does manage to ignore Apple's "don't do anything that might confuse the computer-illiterate" guidelines, and is more capable for it. The platform as a whole, however, is still geared away from productivity and towards passive consumption. That makes it simply not a good platform for creative pursuits. All this you have yourself admitted multiple times in this very thread.

Whereas - say what you will about the Amiga - it never had that problem, because, like classic Windows and classic Mac OS, it dates from the days before the industry started this push towards computer-as-glorified-TV. In the Amiga's heyday, it was expected that if you bought a computer, you were either going to do work on it or engage in creative pursuits, not just fart around on Facebook and watch YouTube. Consequently, the Amiga has a full complement of quality creative software which doesn't try to compromise on delivering a full-fledged desktop creative workstation experience - and I don't really care whether you think they're "ew, primitive," I'd take an Amiga with a handful of quality programs over iOS shovelware any day.

[psxphill]

Your original message does not contain the word "school." It contains the word "teach" something they do in primary, secondary and tertiary institutions.

It did
 
 

I thought you were both writing roughly the same thing.
 
The majority of people only use facetwitmytube, they only need a simple appliance. He is making the distinction of people using facebook or html5, but that is just for comparison of user types. Not because facebook and html5 are the only thing you can use a computer for. There are plenty of ways you can consume and plenty of ways you can create. In the UK they are talking about teaching programming in schools again (they only teach you how to use things like word, excel, some form of database right now).

 
 

I also find it ironic that you as an Amiga fan would talk about limited apps, iOS has apps far more sophisticated than Deluxe Paint or the video toaster software, so if using 'limited" apps is an issue why do you still use an Amiga?

I would say that nostalgia was the main reason. I question whether iOS has anything that could do what a toaster does. Not sure about deluxe paint, are there any pixel art packages on iOS?

[fishy_fiz]

Its funny how people bring up software that even the classic amiga user/fan considers to be *very* basic and simplistic as some sort of example of amiga software. Even in the Amiga's heyday stuff like Dpaint5 was very basic. The only time this wasnt the case was in the mid to late 80's.
ImageFX, Lightwave, Art Effect, Cinema4d, Photogenics, and dozens of others are what I think of when it comes to amiga graphics software. All nicely intertwined together with AREXX scripts and so.
Yes the raw grunt is missing, but Id take this sort of stuff over what's available on the toy type platforms (ios platforms) anyday when doing creative stuff.

[swift240]

No not realy the only way Linux is comparable to any Amiga is the safe and easy way to use it, its a friendly OS just like Amiga OS.

Amiga first, Linux Second and Windows no where in sight. (however Windows 7 is not to bad)

Mike.

[Blinx123]

No not realy the only way Linux is comparable to any Amiga is the safe and easy way to use it, its a friendly OS just like Amiga OS.

Amiga first, Linux Second and Windows no where in sight. (however Windows 7 is not to bad)

Mike.

Not that I have anything against Linux (typing this on Debian), but how is it easier to use than Windows? Installing a new graphics driver in Windows is unlikely to blow anything up. The same can't be said about Linux, where seemingly marginal tasks can lead to much grief.

[fishy_fiz]

No not realy the only way Linux is comparable to any Amiga is the safe and easy way to use it, its a friendly OS just like Amiga OS.

Amiga first, Linux Second and Windows no where in sight. (however Windows 7 is not to bad)

Mike.

Im with Blinx there. Windows is much friendlier than Linux. In fact AmigaOS shares more in common with Windows than linux when it comes to user land space. Granted what a person is used to is what they'll find easier, but Linux is hardly "friendly". Some distros are easier to use than others, but that doesnt stop it being convoluted under the hood.

[Blinx123]

Im with Blinx there. Windows is much friendlier than Linux. In fact AmigaOS shares more in common with Windows than linux when it comes to user land space. Granted what a person is used to is what they'll find easier, but Linux is hardly "friendly". Some distros are easier to use than others, but that doesnt stop it being convoluted under the hood.

Yea. Amiga OS is definitely more like Windows.
It's not always a good thing, since stuff like torrent software or unpackers are easier to get for Linux and are already included with most distros, while Windows/AmigaOS are pretty barebones and leave you with a sense of not knowing what to do.

Windows/AmigaOS are definitely easier to use and way harder to break though. I would probably have to spend 5 hours and 10 pints of beer to screw things up inside Window's registry the way I did for Linux with one silly command.

MacOSX is probably the weirdest of the bunch, btw. It's kind of a blend between the geeky Unix world and what made Windows famous.

[commodorejohn]

Windows/AmigaOS are definitely easier to use and way harder to break though. I would probably have to spend 5 hours and 10 pints of beer to screw things up inside Window's registry the way I did for Linux with one silly command.

And then you'd at least have ten pints in you to soften the blow!