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Author Topic: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?  (Read 41451 times)

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Offline nicholas

Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #89 on: July 05, 2013, 01:39:26 PM »
Quote from: Mrs Beanbag;739920
Here here.

Back in the day I used to run Slackware with Fluxbox windows manager, because it ran nicely on my low-spec PC. But it had its shortcomings in the user experience department, so taking up the Open Source spirit I thought I'd delve into it and fix some things myself. And nobody was interested. I added something so simple as a button on the toolbar to return to the desktop, and nobody saw the point of it because there is a keyboard shortcut for that already, why would you want to use the mouse? The word "shortcut" ought to imply that it's supposed to be the alternative way to do things. I had people seriously tell me that since Fluxbox was intended to be lightweight, making it user-friendly was missing the point somehow, and if I wanted usability why don't I just use Gnome or KDE?

So, frankly, as for the "fix it yourself" mentality, well I can do that but if that's the response then screw it. I don't want to spend weeks staring at somebody else's poorly-documented code trying to work out where to put a single line fix that would have taken the maintainers five minutes, only to be told I shouldn't even have bothered.


Feature!=Fix ;)
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline rdolores

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #90 on: July 05, 2013, 02:39:20 PM »
I voted no.  I've experienced several versions of Ubuntu as well as other distros going  back to Slackware.  But having said that, I just remembered Aeros which is actually a Linux/AROS hybrid.

http://www.aeros-os.org/

AROS is a re-implementation of AmigaDOS3.1 therefore has a real Amiga feel.  What Aeros does is use the Linux kernal for its wealth of drivers and access to its library of applications and puts the AROS UI on top of it.  Pretty cool trick.  I tried it when it first came out.  Was a bit  buggy, but should be more stable now.  It is based on the Broadway distro of AROS.  I prefer the Icaros distro myself.  But it's definitely worth  a look.  It will work with most x86 or x64 machine including laptops.  There is also a version for the Raspberry PI which just came out.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 02:50:27 PM by rdolores »
A1000 - 2 Floppies, 2 MB RAM, OS 1.0-1.3
A500 - 170 MB HD, 8 MB RAM, OS 1.3/2.04
A2000 - 350 MB HD, 8 MB RAM, A2630, OS 2.04
A2500 - 540 MB HD, 8 MB RAM, A2630, OS 3.9
A1200 - 20 GB HD, 64 MB RAM, Blizzard IV
Amithlon - 49 GB HD, 768 MB RAM, PIII-1G
AROS - 80 GB HD, 2 GB RAM, P4-3.2GHz
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #91 on: July 05, 2013, 02:48:01 PM »
If we are going down that route then I change my vote to yes because of Amithlon.



Did someone say ARIX? ;)
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline rdolores

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #92 on: July 05, 2013, 03:27:55 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;739930
If we are going down that route then I change my vote to yes because of Amithlon.



Did someone say ARIX? ;)


Almost forgot about that.  Strange animal the likes of which we may never see again.  It doesn't just have the Amiga feel.  It is an Amiga.  It uses a combination of modified Amiga side calls and Linux hardware drivers to deliver incredible performance.  It was like having a super 68040, with RTG and AHI machine using an old PIII, 512MB machine that could barely run  Windows XP.  Still have that machine somewhere around.

Big difference between Aeros and Amithlon.  One is Amiga-Like, the other is an Amiga.  Amithlon was much lower level than Aeros which makes it more efficient but also much more difficult to implement.  It's almost like its talking to the Linux drivers (graphic, sound, usb, etc...) directly from AmigaDOS without going thru any HAL.  Aeros feels like there's more layers in between.
A1000 - 2 Floppies, 2 MB RAM, OS 1.0-1.3
A500 - 170 MB HD, 8 MB RAM, OS 1.3/2.04
A2000 - 350 MB HD, 8 MB RAM, A2630, OS 2.04
A2500 - 540 MB HD, 8 MB RAM, A2630, OS 3.9
A1200 - 20 GB HD, 64 MB RAM, Blizzard IV
Amithlon - 49 GB HD, 768 MB RAM, PIII-1G
AROS - 80 GB HD, 2 GB RAM, P4-3.2GHz
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #93 on: July 05, 2013, 04:07:04 PM »
Quote from: rdolores;739932
Almost forgot about that.  Strange animal the likes of which we may never see again.


My lips are sealed.......
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline gaula92

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #94 on: July 05, 2013, 08:27:45 PM »
I'd googled around and it seems ARIX is somehow alive :P
 

Offline rdolores

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #95 on: July 05, 2013, 09:49:47 PM »
Quote from: gaula92;739962
I'd googled around and it seems ARIX is somehow alive :P


Will this be closer in spirit to the Amithlon or to Aeros?
A1000 - 2 Floppies, 2 MB RAM, OS 1.0-1.3
A500 - 170 MB HD, 8 MB RAM, OS 1.3/2.04
A2000 - 350 MB HD, 8 MB RAM, A2630, OS 2.04
A2500 - 540 MB HD, 8 MB RAM, A2630, OS 3.9
A1200 - 20 GB HD, 64 MB RAM, Blizzard IV
Amithlon - 49 GB HD, 768 MB RAM, PIII-1G
AROS - 80 GB HD, 2 GB RAM, P4-3.2GHz
 

phoenixkonsole

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #96 on: July 05, 2013, 10:17:33 PM »
Hi,

the idea behind AEROS is to have "enough" linux under the hood to run Linux apps. It is easy to remove "those" extra layers. Since i started with 40MB of Linux i must say "it is easier to run just AROS on top".
 
My version of Amithlon would be Arithlon and would allow, like AEROS, to run Linux apps but it would have 68k JIT accelerated AROS in front. I have it on my todo list.
 

Offline persia

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #97 on: July 06, 2013, 12:34:40 AM »
The sales figures do a quite adequate job of showing the decline of the desktop.  Really except for us computer archaeologists the appeal of a desktop at home is very limited.



The personal computer's role changes, becoming one of many contextual devices rather than the central hub connecting them.

Quote from: commodorejohn;739901
Keep repeating "post-PC" to yourself, man. Maybe one of these days the power of belief will make it true!
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 12:38:21 AM by persia »
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #98 on: July 06, 2013, 12:41:44 AM »
And yet they're still being made, and absolutely nobody in the OS market except head-up-its-ass Microsoft is even trying to downplay the importance of real computers running real computer operating systems (and even MS aren't dumb enough to cut desktop functionality altogether.) News flash: the decline in PC sales reflects nothing more than the fact that we're currently in the middle of a plateau where the needs of PC users are, largely, served just as well by equipment they already have or can acquire cheaply used as by new, high-end computers.

Also, claiming that PCs are dying because people aren't watching as much video on them is like saying that cars are obsolete because more people are having sex on beds.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline stefcep2

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #99 on: July 06, 2013, 06:09:24 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;739900
The Windows 8 debacle is an open invitation for a good alternative OS, alright - but so was the Windows Me debacle, and the Windows Vista debacle, and Linux isn't really any better-suited to fill that gap now than it was then, because the guiding forces behind Linux still don't get usability or simplicity of design.


Linux had a golden opportunity during the netbook craze.  Only time I've seen linux pre-installed on hardware in general electronics/TV/ stores like JB Hifi.

And people returned them once they realised what they'd bought!

Quote from: commodorejohn;739900

....These are people for whom "user-friendly" is the same thing as "idiot-oriented;" the kind of people who give the world things like Gnome 3. They don't get usability, they don't get ordinary users, and Linux is never going to get anywhere in the desktop market until they do.


Thats the gist of it all really.

 Linux fanatics always blame the user for not being "smart enough", not accepting of linux's "differences", not willing to learn etc.  Whereas what the user is saying is that there is a better way to do it, and they've seen it elsewhere.

To which the reply invariably is: " If you don't like like it, make it better yourself, or leave".

The user, invariably chooses the latter option.
 

Offline persia

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #100 on: July 06, 2013, 02:01:51 PM »
It's more a realignment, than an actual death.  The PC was the core of the computer world, everything you had fed off it.  Now it's just one device of many that serves those needs.  It's just one of many choices.  There is no one device that everyone must have, it's all context driven, what you need to do determines the device(s) you need.  Nobody needs a PC to do facebook and youtube, but in the past they would buy a PC because it was the only choice, now it's not.  PCs are a declining percentage of smart devices.
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Offline Madshib

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #101 on: July 06, 2013, 02:41:36 PM »
Quote from: persia;739978
The sales figures do a quite adequate job of showing the decline of the desktop.  Really except for us computer archaeologists the appeal of a desktop at home is very limited.



The personal computer's role changes, becoming one of many contextual devices rather than the central hub connecting them.

That is a really misleading statistic. By volume more video on other devices huh? That simply means that more people are watching netflix, hulu, and other services are being streamed to PS3s, XBoxes, and other media direct devices. That just tells me that people stopped watching movies on their laptops/desktops as streamed from the internet and moved from the office to their living room. They are more so qualifying their place in the market than making a statement to move to a tablet or other device.
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #102 on: July 06, 2013, 03:43:28 PM »
Quote from: persia;740016
It's more a realignment, than an actual death.  The PC was the core of the computer world, everything you had fed off it.  Now it's just one device of many that serves those needs.  It's just one of many choices.  There is no one device that everyone must have, it's all context driven, what you need to do determines the device(s) you need.  Nobody needs a PC to do facebook and youtube, but in the past they would buy a PC because it was the only choice, now it's not.  PCs are a declining percentage of smart devices.
First off, you're blatantly changing your position here, I guess because you finally realized that the one you were taking was nonsense. "Ooh, ooh, it's not an actual death! Despite the fact that I've been crowing about the 'death of the PC' at every opportunity for two or three years!"

In any case, A. I've still seen no reason to believe that the number of people in this fabled "Facebook mall-rat" demographic, who only use a computer for yammering about their pets on Facebook and watching funny cat videos on YouTube, and therefore have no use for a real computer once they get a Facebook slab, is anywhere near as huge as tablet evangelists think it is, and B. claiming that PCs are "a declining percentage" of gadgets because of declining sales is still completely baseless, given that there are countless machines out in the field that already meet or exceed the requirements for many people, and no evidence whatsoever that they aren't being used.

(Additionally, these figures never bother to take into account people who build their own PCs rather than buy from an OEM, but hey! When you want to make the numbers turn out your way, I guess you gotta leave data out somewhere.)
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline persia

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #103 on: July 06, 2013, 11:39:51 PM »
Your TV does internet, XBOX, PlayStation, Wii do internet, phones do internet, tablets do internet, zeus knows what else will do internet.  The PC age, where the desktop was dominant is no more, devices other than PCs form the majority of smart devices.  The market is proving it as we speak.  Who needs a desktop?  Those who do serious work such as developing apps for other smart devices.  Who doesn't need them?  Most everybody else.  The PC is just one device amongst a host of devices.  This is what Apple and others have meant by post-pc.  Apple continues to develop desktops too, so if they meant what you believed them to mean they'd be kicking a dead horse.  

Speaking of horses, no one would argue that we are in the post-horse transport era, yet I can still ride a horse if I want to.
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Does Linux have an Amiga feel?
« Reply #104 from previous page: July 07, 2013, 12:15:25 AM »
Quote from: persia;740052
Your TV does internet, XBOX, PlayStation, Wii do internet, phones do internet, tablets do internet, zeus knows what else will do internet.
Yes, an assload of devices can now "do Internet" (apparently we're  borrowing phrasing from a seventy-year-old grandma, doing the Internet  with the Bookface and the VideoTube and the whatsits?) None of them do  it as well as a PC or laptop; of those, only tablets even come  close. A smartphone is definitely easier to carry in your pocket than a  laptop, and it's a perfectly fine thing for keeping a grocery list or  checking email on the road; for actual web browsing, it's heavily  constrained by screen size, with the experience being anywhere from  "tolerable but not great" on sites with "phone" versions to downright  comically bad on sites designed for a full-sized screen.

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The PC age, where the desktop was dominant is no more, devices other than PCs form the majority of smart devices.  The market is proving it as we speak.
The market is proving nothing of the kind, unless you've got some  figures on actual usage you're not sharing. Once again: sales  figures only convey information about what people are buying, not  what they are using and in which contexts they are using it. There  is absolutely no reason to assume that everybody who buys an iPhone goes  and throws out their desktop, unless you're desperately trying to make  things sound like you want them to sound using data that doesn't  actually support that assertion.

Quote
Who needs a desktop?  Those who do serious work such as developing apps for other smart devices.  Who doesn't need them?  Most everybody else.
Who needs a desktop or laptop? Anybody who does any kind of  meaningful work on a computer, anybody who enjoys creative pursuits  using the mass of good creative software for PCs, anybody who  doesn't like touchscreens or shıtty rubber Bluetooth keyboards in floppy  fold-out "poor man's laptop" cases, anybody who enjoys games that aren't the Bejeweled crap flooding the iOS or Android markets or watered-down console garbage, anybody who wants cost-effective mass storage, etcetera, etcetera.

Who doesn't need them? Slackjaws for whom the computer is a glorified TV, who spend their entire free time watching Jenna farkin' Marbles and desperately trying to get her to "like" them on Facebook, and for whom the closest they ever get to any kind of creative pursuit is spinning wild tales about the "post-PC era" at the slightest provocation. Yeah, those people probably don't need a real computer; they might hurt themselves on its non-patented square corners. They should be much safer with a smooth, featureless 6oz. slab.

Quote
The PC is just one device amongst a host of devices.  This is what Apple and others have meant by post-pc.  Apple continues to develop desktops too, so if they meant what you believed them to mean they'd be kicking a dead horse.
The fact that Apple's business arm has a great deal more sense than its marketing arm (which is probably just repeating "post-PC" in an attempt to get people to believe it, and buy more iPads) does not change the meaning of the words "post-PC era," because those words actually mean set things and combine in regular ways, and insisting that they mean something different together is poor communication. If they really are only trying to say that people use other things than PCs for some tasks, I have news for you: people have always used things other than PCs for some tasks. Did the microwave bring about the "post-oven era?"

Quote
Speaking of horses, no one would argue that we are in the post-horse transport era, yet I can still ride a horse if I want to.
This would be a meaningful analogy if horses were actually better at a wide variety of tasks than cars and more comfortable for long-term use. It's actually the opposite, so working from your logic, I look forward to the upcoming post-tablet era.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/MT-32/D-10, Oberheim Matrix-6, Yamaha DX7/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini, Ensoniq Mirage/SQ-80, Sequential Circuits Prophet-600, Hohner String Performer

"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup