Cyberstorm MKI upgrading the 68060 from 50mhz to 75mhz?

[ChaosLord]

I do have the Radeon, I was trying out the AGA version of Quake 1, which suggested at least a 66mhz 060.  Quake2, I think suggested a 75mhz one.

I wish I could get glquake working on it, but from what I understand only the Voodoo is supported?

Is the FPGArcade out yet?  I was kind of looking into getting one, but last I looked, it was still in development.

slaapliedje

1. The 060 card for FPGA arcade is not available for sale yet.

2. There is no PCI slot on the FPGA arcade so your Radeon will blow away the gfx performance of a FPGA Arcade forever and ever and ever and ever.

+ Your Radeon has massively more gfx ram than a FPGA Arcade.

FPGA arcade only has 64MB of gfx ram maximum.  You can add another 128MB of ram by buying the 060 daughtercard when it is available but that is it.  For a total ram of 192MB.  Your Radeon has more ram than that all by itself.


Blitting speed on Radeon is faster.
But...
The transfer speed, transferring gfx data from the CPU to the gfx card should be 3x to 4x faster on FPGA Replay than on your loaded deluxe Amiga Real Machine.

Remember when we were talking about transfer speed in another thread?  Well the guy who made the 060 card for FPGA Replay very nicely posted bustest results for me when I asked.  That is how I know its transfer speed is faster.  It uses more modern ramchips and so forth than our trusty old Classic Amigas.

[mongo]

All the EC 060 chips I have bought were fake.  They were really FULL 100% working 68060 chips with full working MMU and FPU.

But I only bought 1.  I can say for a fact it was manufactured in the 1990s but I can't narrow it down any more than that.

I :knuddel: my 68060.  What a wonderful chip.

All 1 of them you bought?

Early EC060 chips were full 060 chips that may have failed the MMU or FPU tests. Later EC chips were manufactured with a different mask that doesn't have the FPU. All 75 MHz chips were LC or EC chips with no FPU.

[slaapliedje]

Just for fun, I tried looking up how much the 68060s were going for new...

Mouser Electronics have 240 in stock.  You have to order a minimum of 7 of them... but they're 850 dollars each!  http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Freescale-Semiconductor/MC68060RC60/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtLck3p7ZBovcYeUrhJZ7ee

That's insane!

slaapliedje

[paul1981]

So the question is though, would I need to just swap out my crystal with a 75mhz one?  

Guess I'll look and see.

slaapliedje

If you're 060 really is revision 1 (have I got this right?) then I wouldn't expect anything above 66 MHz. I'd try 60MHz first and check it's stable (and I mean the card as well because from what I gather no one knows how over-clockable the CS MkI is. Regarding the CPU, I had a revision 5 060 which ran at 66MHz in an Apollo 1260 but not at 75MHz. Apollo 1260's and Blizzard 1260's (the cards) are both clockable up to 100MHz however...but what's needed is a revision 6 060.
The truth is, unless you have a certified revision 6 060 (these will do 100MHz), then you can't be sure how high the CS MkI can go.

[nicholas]

Just for fun, I tried looking up how much the 68060s were going for new...

Mouser Electronics have 240 in stock.  You have to order a minimum of 7 of them... but they're 850 dollars each!  http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Freescale-Semiconductor/MC68060RC60/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtLck3p7ZBovcYeUrhJZ7ee

That's insane!

slaapliedje

You'd be better off buying a Nortel switch off ebay and ripping the 060 out of it. Much cheaper.

[slaapliedje]

All 1 of them you bought?

Early EC060 chips were full 060 chips that may have failed the MMU or FPU tests. Later EC chips were manufactured with a different mask that doesn't have the FPU. All 75 MHz chips were LC or EC chips with no FPU.

Worse scenario, I paid 30 bucks for a case badge that I can put on my computer at work.  

slaapliedje

[slaapliedje]

If you're 060 really is revision 1 (have I got this right?) then I wouldn't expect anything above 66 MHz. I'd try 60MHz first and check it's stable (and I mean the card as well because from what I gather no one knows how over-clockable the CS MkI is. Regarding the CPU, I had a revision 5 060 which ran at 66MHz in an Apollo 1260 but not at 75MHz. Apollo 1260's and Blizzard 1260's (the cards) are both clockable up to 100MHz however...but what's needed is a revision 6 060.
The truth is, unless you have a certified revision 6 060 (these will do 100MHz), then you can't be sure how high the CS MkI can go.

The exact text from 'cpu060'

Code: [Select]

System: 68060MC Mask 0-1f43G,2f43G-0g65V Revision 1
Settings:
(INST: Cache Burst)
(DATA: Cache Burst)
(BRANCH: Cache)
(Superscalar)
(WriteBuffer)
(Store/Load Bypass)

Register:
   CACR=$A08008000
     PCR=$04300101
BUSCR=$00000000
Then the warnings about tweaking these settings, etc.

It does have a heat sink and fan on it, which every thing I've read about the 060 says it should run cooler than an 040 and not need the heatsink or fan.  My A3640 had a heatsink without the fan.

slaapliedje

[matthey]

I do have the Radeon, I was trying out the AGA version of Quake 1, which suggested at least a 66mhz 060.  Quake2, I think suggested a 75mhz one.

Nova Coder made an RTG version of Quake II. Using the gfx card saves a little CPU time of doing the C2P so you should probably give that a try. I expect it will be slow in combat but you should be able to explore at sluggish speeds. Upgrading to 68060@60MHz might bring it up to somewhat playable speeds.

I wish I could get glquake working on it, but from what I understand only the Voodoo is supported?

That is correct. There is currently no AmigaOS 3.x drivers for the Radeon. You could get a used Voodoo 3 card. The speed of the Voodoo 3 3000 with SGRAM is comparable in 2D speed to the Radeon and offers 3D. You shouldn't need the memory with 128MB on the CSMK1 although you can leave both cards in.

Is the FPGArcade out yet?  I was kind of looking into getting one, but last I looked, it was still in development.

Yes, the fpgaArcade is available and shipping. The 68060 add-on board is not available yet though. That is what I'm waiting on too .

So the question is though, would I need to just swap out my crystal with a 75mhz one?  

Unlikely. The accelerator is likely feeding the clock back into the motherboard which would cause it to be overclocked to 75MHz and is unlikely to work without changes. The memory on the accelerator and motherboard may become a problem without adding wait states or changing to faster memory. My CSMK3 68060 runs at 75MHz but it has room for 3 oscillators and I feed the motherboard and SCSI with the original 50MHz. I had to cut a trace and add a 2nd oscillator for the CPU and memory to be clocked from. The high clock speed Apollo accelerator guys also have to modify the accelerator to clock the memory at 1/2 speed (and maybe the motherboard). It's not a good idea to overclock in one big step from 50MHz to 75MHz either. It's better to go in small steps while looking for problems like hot chips, timing issues and memory errors. Maybe now you see why I said that aggressive overclocking is tricky compared to mild overclocking.

[slaapliedje]

You'd be better off buying a Nortel switch off ebay and ripping the 060 out of it. Much cheaper.

Ha!  I was thinking the same thing!  Just crazy.

slaapliedje

[slaapliedje]

1. The 060 card for FPGA arcade is not available for sale yet.

2. There is no PCI slot on the FPGA arcade so your Radeon will blow away the gfx performance of a FPGA Arcade forever and ever and ever and ever.

+ Your Radeon has massively more gfx ram than a FPGA Arcade.

FPGA arcade only has 64MB of gfx ram maximum.  You can add another 128MB of ram by buying the 060 daughtercard when it is available but that is it.  For a total ram of 192MB.  Your Radeon has more ram than that all by itself.


Blitting speed on Radeon is faster.
But...
The transfer speed, transferring gfx data from the CPU to the gfx card should be 3x to 4x faster on FPGA Replay than on your loaded deluxe Amiga Real Machine.

Remember when we were talking about transfer speed in another thread?  Well the guy who made the 060 card for FPGA Replay very nicely posted bustest results for me when I asked.  That is how I know its transfer speed is faster.  It uses more modern ramchips and so forth than our trusty old Classic Amigas.

I hadn't even realized the FPGA arcade was out.  I did know the 060 daughter card wasn't.  

I still need to figure out why my memory speeds did what they did.  When I first ran bustest on them after installing the 060, they scored around 30mb/s.  Now they're only scoring 16mb/s.  At first I thought it was due to the memory upgrade, but even after taking the new memory out, it was still at 16mb/s.  But in the interim of testing all this out, I had a faulty IDE cable that ended up with me having to go to an earlier backup of my Amiga set up..... annoying to say the least.

Would be nice if I could get fully accelerated GL on my Radeon.

slaapliedje

[delshay]

Most Rev 6 68060s are marked 50MHz and there are people overclocking to 100MHz or more. I wouldn't put to much value in the 68060 clock ratings. Some SIMMs are more overclockable too. The faster timing SIMMs can usually be overclocked more but there are some with rather slow markings that will work at 50ns. It's unlikely to harm the SIMMs or CPU itself by overclocking. A more likely problem is the memory controller chip but there is usually enough tolerance to allow a mild overclock. There may be a jumper or flash memory setting to increase the wait state if the memory can't keep up. I would expect a new 60MHz oscillator only would have a 90% chance of working and give a 20% CPU speed boost. Memory becomes faster too if you don't have to add a waitstate. The custom chips and I/O may be overclocked which gives a speedup but can cause problems with motherboard memory. AGA seems to be more over clockable than ECS but 60MHz should work in both cases. It's good to monitor the temperature of the chips and provide adequate cooling. Aggressive overclocking can be tricky but mild overclocking is generally pretty safe (accelerator manufacturers did it sometimes).

.

The question is what is the difference between a 50Mhz & 60Mhz version besides the markings on the chip. What I need to know is what changed on the inside as both chips seem to overclock the same. This is probably why most users go for the 50Mhz version as there are unable to get more out of their card with a 60Mhz version.

50Mhz version are also easier to find too as well as being cheaper.

What users need to be aware of is what is marked on the outside is not always what's on the inside.

[matthey]

The question is what is the difference between a 50Mhz & 60Mhz version besides the markings on the chip. What I need to know is what changed on the inside as both chips seem to overclock the same. This is probably why most users go for the 50Mhz version as there are unable to get more out of their card with a 60Mhz version.

50Mhz version are also easier to find too as well as being cheaper.

What users need to be aware of is what is marked on the outside is not always what's on the inside.

The 60MHz rated 68060s may have additional testing done to verify the higher clock speed but they probably came from the same batch of processors as the 50MHz parts with the same mask. The 50MHz rated parts are more of an "unknown" while the 60MHz parts should be better on average than the rest of the batch as they should be test verified picks with the rejects marked as 50MHz. All the comparisons are thrown away when going to a new mask though. The rev 6 was a die shrink where the 50MHz parts will outperform the old mask 60MHz parts in practically every case. Motorola could have easily marked the rev 6 as 75MHz but they had already decided to kill the 68060 (for PPC) for everything but embedded and military applications where there was less advantage to marketing the higher clock speeds.