Cyberstorm MKI upgrading the 68060 from 50mhz to 75mhz?

[slaapliedje]

So I thought what the hell, I found this on eBay; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemVersion&item=230404340431&view=all&tid=886057929013

It was 30 bucks, if it's a fake?  not too big of a deal.  At 30 bucks it probably is.

So, the question is though, can I swap out the 68060RC50 out of my Cyberstorm MK1 and the crystal and that's all I need?

I've seen several over clocking guides, but they've all been for the MKII or MKIII, never the MKI.

This claims in the main description that it's a MC68EC060RC75, so I'd need to find a 75mhz crystal, correct?  or if I wanted to over clock it, maybe get a 100mhz one?

As I said, I haven't found any information on the MKI, so maybe I'm way off base there.  I figured it was only 30 bucks, so why not?

slaapliedje

[mongo]

An EC060 won't work in a Cyberstorm.

[slaapliedje]

This post says he managed to get an MK2 to work with one.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24713

slaapliedje

[mongo]

This post says he managed to get an MK2 to work with one.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24713

slaapliedje

His EC060 wasn't really an EC060. Yours most likely is.

[slaapliedje]

Guess I'll find out!

slaapliedje

[mechy]

The EC wont work unless its got a working mmu/fpu,which is probably unlikely.
mech

[slaapliedje]

Well, ignoring this particular Chip, is it possible to overclock, or get a faster clocked CPU for it, and if so, is that all that is needed, the chip and the oscillator?  (or if just overclocking, the oscillator is all that's needed?)

I think I have one of the earlier 68060RC50s, I'll post the cpu info tomorrow, but if I recall it was one of the first revisions.  It does have a heatsink and a fan on it.

slaapliedje

[danbeaver]

Well, ignoring this particular Chip, is it possible to overclock, or get a faster clocked CPU for it, and if so, is that all that is needed, the chip and the oscillator?  (or if just overclocking, the oscillator is all that's needed?)

I think I have one of the earlier 68060RC50s, I'll post the cpu info tomorrow, but if I recall it was one of the first revisions.  It does have a heatsink and a fan on it.

slaapliedje

You can likely get a Revision 6 to over clock in the 60 to 66 range, but not much higher.

[matthey]

I also recall that some of the early 68EC060 chips were full 68060s. They were probably rejects of the full mask. The later 68EC060 processors received their own mask (which was shrunk so should allow rev 6 clock speeds) which are highly unlikely to have the missing FPU and MMU. IMO, save yourself some trouble and stay with a full 68060 even if it's a little slower. Nova Coder's 3D ports need the FPU if that is the reason for wanting to overclock now.

Well, ignoring this particular Chip, is it possible to overclock, or get a faster clocked CPU for it, and if so, is that all that is needed, the chip and the oscillator?  (or if just overclocking, the oscillator is all that's needed?)

It depends on the accelerator and the amount of overclocking. The oscillator can affect the timing of the CPU, memory, Amiga chipset speed and I/O bus, and various chips on the accelerator (some of which have a rated maximum speed and temperature which increases). Some accelerators have multiple oscillators or locations for them to be able to independently clock the different pieces. Some accelerators use frequency dividers for the different pieces and don't tolerate changing the oscillator much at all. You can get some overclocking tips from this web site:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~davem2/amiga.html

I think I have one of the earlier 68060RC50s, I'll post the cpu info tomorrow, but if I recall it was one of the first revisions.  It does have a heatsink and a fan on it.

Most of the early revision 68060s will clock to 60MHz which is worth trying. I haven't heard of an overclocked CSMK1 but there is a good chance that the accelerator and CPU will tolerate it although SCSI modules or SIMMs may not.

[slaapliedje]

I also recall that some of the early 68EC060 chips were full 68060s. They were probably rejects of the full mask. The later 68EC060 processors received their own mask (which was shrunk so should allow rev 6 clock speeds) which are highly unlikely to have the missing FPU and MMU. IMO, save yourself some trouble and stay with a full 68060 even if it's a little slower. Nova Coder's 3D ports need the FPU if that is the reason for wanting to overclock now.

Well, that actually is why I initially looked into it, but eventually I want to start programming on it, so less compile time the better.  Quake 1 is almost playable at 50mhz.

It depends on the accelerator and the amount of overclocking. The oscillator can affect the timing of the CPU, memory, Amiga chipset speed and I/O bus, and various chips on the accelerator (some of which have a rated maximum speed and temperature which increases). Some accelerators have multiple oscillators or locations for them to be able to independently clock the different pieces. Some accelerators use frequency dividers for the different pieces and don't tolerate changing the oscillator much at all. You can get some overclocking tips from this web site:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~davem2/amiga.html

I had found that site before, but as I said in the original post, no info on overclocking the MK1.  Not sure if I want to be the guinea pig...

Most of the early revision 68060s will clock to 60MHz which is worth trying. I haven't heard of an overclocked CSMK1 but there is a good chance that the accelerator and CPU will tolerate it although SCSI modules or SIMMs may not.

I don't have the SCSI module, and at least half the SIMMS are brand new.  I'd rather not overclock it, but get an actual CPU that runs at that, and swap the crystal out.  But you're right, there could be other components that are set with specific timings.

slaapliedje

Edit: my revision on my chip is Revision 1
System: 68060MC 0-1f43G,2f43G-0g65V Revision 1
Register:
 CACR=$A08008000
  PCR=$04300101
BUSCR=$00000000

[matthey]

Well, that actually is why I initially looked into it, but eventually I want to start programming on it, so less compile time the better.  Quake 1 is almost playable at 50mhz.

Nova Coder's Quake II is very playable with 68060@75MHz on a gfx board. My XBOX360 nephew played it with no complaints about the speed (just the controls). A gfx board helps some but not as much as glQuake where I get 640x480x16 25fps on a Voodoo 3 or 4.

I had found that site before, but as I said in the original post, no info on overclocking the MK1.  Not sure if I want to be the guinea pig...

There is overclocking info on CSMK2 and CSMK3 but I have seen none on the CSMK1. I haven't seen any on the QuickPack 060 accelerator either which would also be interesting.

I don't have the SCSI module, and at least half the SIMMS are brand new.  I'd rather not overclock it, but get an actual CPU that runs at that, and swap the crystal out.  But you're right, there could be other components that are set with specific timings.

Most Rev 6 68060s are marked 50MHz and there are people overclocking to 100MHz or more. I wouldn't put to much value in the 68060 clock ratings. Some SIMMs are more overclockable too. The faster timing SIMMs can usually be overclocked more but there are some with rather slow markings that will work at 50ns. It's unlikely to harm the SIMMs or CPU itself by overclocking. A more likely problem is the memory controller chip but there is usually enough tolerance to allow a mild overclock. There may be a jumper or flash memory setting to increase the wait state if the memory can't keep up. I would expect a new 60MHz oscillator only would have a 90% chance of working and give a 20% CPU speed boost. Memory becomes faster too if you don't have to add a waitstate. The custom chips and I/O may be overclocked which gives a speedup but can cause problems with motherboard memory. AGA seems to be more over clockable than ECS but 60MHz should work in both cases. It's good to monitor the temperature of the chips and provide adequate cooling. Aggressive overclocking can be tricky but mild overclocking is generally pretty safe (accelerator manufacturers did it sometimes).

P.S. You could always buy an fpgaArcade with the 060 add-on board if you don't feel safe attempting an overclock on the CSMK1.

[slaapliedje]

I do have the Radeon, I was trying out the AGA version of Quake 1, which suggested at least a 66mhz 060.  Quake2, I think suggested a 75mhz one.

I wish I could get glquake working on it, but from what I understand only the Voodoo is supported?

Is the FPGArcade out yet?  I was kind of looking into getting one, but last I looked, it was still in development.

slaapliedje

[ChaosLord]

All the EC 060 chips I have bought were fake.  They were really FULL 100% working 68060 chips with full working MMU and FPU.

But I only bought 1.  I can say for a fact it was manufactured in the 1990s but I can't narrow it down any more than that.

I :knuddel: my 68060.  What a wonderful chip.

[slaapliedje]

Ha ha!  Yeah, I was kind of thinking along those lines.  EC meant Embedded Controller, and more than likely are full 68060s, that were just sold to the embedded makers for cheaper.  It would have taken Motorola more money to create several different chips, and at that point in the game, the 68k was almost EOL.  

It is the same thing with Intel (and I'm sure AMD).  They have a test process, and if it doesn't pass the test 100%, they sell the chips at a lower clock.  At least I know that's what they used to do during the Pentium days.  I had overclocked the Pentium 75 to 100mhz, never had any issues.  Well at least that I could tell with how crash prone Windows 95 was...

So the question is though, would I need to just swap out my crystal with a 75mhz one?  

Guess I'll look and see.

slaapliedje

[ChaosLord]

I do have the Radeon, I was trying out the AGA version of Quake 1, which suggested at least a 66mhz 060.  Quake2, I think suggested a 75mhz one.

I wish I could get glquake working on it, but from what I understand only the Voodoo is supported?

Is the FPGArcade out yet?  I was kind of looking into getting one, but last I looked, it was still in development.

slaapliedje

1. The 060 card for FPGA arcade is not available for sale yet.

2. There is no PCI slot on the FPGA arcade so your Radeon will blow away the gfx performance of a FPGA Arcade forever and ever and ever and ever.

+ Your Radeon has massively more gfx ram than a FPGA Arcade.

FPGA arcade only has 64MB of gfx ram maximum.  You can add another 128MB of ram by buying the 060 daughtercard when it is available but that is it.  For a total ram of 192MB.  Your Radeon has more ram than that all by itself.


Blitting speed on Radeon is faster.
But...
The transfer speed, transferring gfx data from the CPU to the gfx card should be 3x to 4x faster on FPGA Replay than on your loaded deluxe Amiga Real Machine.

Remember when we were talking about transfer speed in another thread?  Well the guy who made the 060 card for FPGA Replay very nicely posted bustest results for me when I asked.  That is how I know its transfer speed is faster.  It uses more modern ramchips and so forth than our trusty old Classic Amigas.