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Offline slaapliedje

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Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #104 from previous page: July 02, 2013, 12:36:33 PM »
Quote from: paolone;739570
Yes, yes... but 2 out of 3 were born as commercial products (StarOffice and Netscape Navigator).

True, just like some of us would like something open source to be born out of the Amiga OS product.  And as we can see, both of them have flourished a lot more than when they were commercial.

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Offline nicholas

Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #105 on: July 02, 2013, 01:52:19 PM »
Quote from: paolone;739570
Yes, yes... but 2 out of 3 were born as commercial products (StarOffice and Netscape Navigator).


Yes, and they were both complete market failures.

Once they were opened up they both became massive successes.

It's interesting to note that OpenOffice lost most of it's market share to the forked LibreOffice not long after Oracle started to close up it's development.
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Offline OlafS3

Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #106 on: July 02, 2013, 02:10:30 PM »
we have more than two "closed source" OSs? Which?
 

Offline nicholas

Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #107 on: July 02, 2013, 02:26:53 PM »
Quote from: OlafS3;739598
we have more than two "closed source" OSs? Which?


Amiga OS - Closed and dead. The only OS with the legal right to be known using the trademarks "Amiga" or Amiga OS".
MorphOS - Semi-Open and semi-closed. Doesn't have the legal right to be known using the trademarks "Amiga" or "Amiga OS".
OS4 - Closed. Doesn't have the legal right be known using the trademarks "Amiga" or "Amiga OS" either but does have the right to use the trademark "AmigaOS".
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Offline OlafS3

Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #108 on: July 02, 2013, 02:47:34 PM »
I of course thought of living OS (in development). AmigaOS (68k) is heavily patched but no sources and either no team developing it.
 

Offline slaapliedje

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Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #109 on: July 02, 2013, 02:52:50 PM »
Quote from: OlafS3;739603
I of course thought of living OS (in development). AmigaOS (68k) is heavily patched but no sources and either no team developing it.

Here I'll give my thanks to some of the people like PeterK who have reverse engineered libraries and / or have released them as open source.  The new icon.library specifically kicks major butt.

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Offline OlafS3

Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #110 on: July 02, 2013, 03:17:21 PM »
+1
 

Offline mfilos

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Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #111 on: July 02, 2013, 04:02:11 PM »
As well as DonAdan with the modules:
- dos.library
- graphics.library
- scsi.device
- battmem.resource
- bonus (for A3000/A4000)
- cia.resource
- filesystem.resource
- mathffp.library
- misc.resource
- potgo.resource
- wbfind
- wbtask
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Offline slaapliedje

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Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #112 on: July 02, 2013, 04:07:34 PM »
Quote from: mfilos;739607
As well as DonAdan with the modules:
- dos.library
- graphics.library
- scsi.device
- battmem.resource
- bonus (for A3000/A4000)
- cia.resource
- filesystem.resource
- mathffp.library
- misc.resource
- potgo.resource
- wbfind
- wbtask

THIS!!  :D  This is the awesome of the coders in the Amiga community.  Actually I knew about scsi.device and graphics.library, but the others?  It'd be nice to have one Sticky post with all the updated libraries to help those that don't live on the forums or are just getting into (or back into) the Amiga scene.

slaapliedje
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Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #113 on: July 02, 2013, 04:59:55 PM »
Quote from: slaapliedje;739604
Here I'll give my thanks to some of the people like PeterK who have reverse engineered libraries and / or have released them as open source.  The new icon.library specifically kicks major butt.


+2!!  This new icon.library made my A500 so fast that I bumped Workbench up from 8 colors to 16 colors, just to slow it back down.  ;)

Also +1 to it would be great to have a one-stop list of where to download all the new libraries, etc., from, instead of having to hunt all over forums and Google searches.  I'd suggest a Wiki, heh.  ;)
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Offline slaapliedje

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Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #114 on: July 02, 2013, 09:50:45 PM »
Wiki would be awesome for such things.  Also for setting up a development environment.  That info is all over the place.  Maybe I'll set up a new domain for hosting such things.  Though I know for code there is already amiga.sourceforge.net

slaapliedje
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Offline MadshibTopic starter

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Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #115 on: July 02, 2013, 11:09:53 PM »
So basically, if AOS was released as an Open Source project, no one has given a clear idea as to where they want it to go. AROS is not AOS but that seems like everyone's easy answer.

Put the key in the door and retire this thread.
 

Offline slaapliedje

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Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #116 on: July 02, 2013, 11:36:43 PM »
Quote from: Madshib;739638
So basically, if AOS was released as an Open Source project, no one has given a clear idea as to where they want it to go. AROS is not AOS but that seems like everyone's easy answer.

Put the key in the door and retire this thread.

If I recall correctly, one of the biggest omissions of AmigaOS is memory protection, or lack thereof.  If I recall, even AmigaOS 4 doesn't have it?  Or maybe it was only recently added.

AROS is a good example of where it would go, simply for the multi-platform support.  Amiga everywhere was what one.. *cough* person *cough* kept touting as the next awesome thing.  If they had just released the code, we'd probably have that already, and AROS wouldn't need to reverse engineer all of the functions.

I think 4.x is going in the direction that it would have gone, though I really think it's only being able to run on very select hardware is what is killing it's popularity.  We all know what made the Amiga awesome in the first place is the custom chipset, but custom chips aren't really viable anymore, simply because the CPU can provide so much raw power, not to mention the graphics chips.  Oddly though the sound chips still pretty much suck.

I always kind of figured that if the hardware had improved and Commodore hadn't gone bust, we'd have something similar to the way the Atari Jaguar was set up.  Custom Graphics and Sound chips with a 68000 for bootloading the whole thing.  Would keep the software that is already written working, but give a nice fat bus speed for everything that is coded for the new hardware.  Make the hardware fresh enough and fast enough that you wouldn't need to get any upgrades for 5 or so years.  I think the biggest problem with PCs these days are sloppy coding and the constant upgrade path.  Sure it's slowed down in recent years, but the fact that newer software takes so much more memory and so much more processing speed, but doesn't have much better graphics / sound is disturbing.

That's where the AmigaOS shines.  The OS itself is so lightweight and yet versatile, that really what it needs is bug fixes.  Maybe add a few APIs to be native, like SDL, OpenGL, OpenAL, etc.  Upgrade the languages to the latest (Perl, Python, C++11, etc) and make it easier to write software for, and a reason to write software for it.  If programmers can look at how things were written to so tightly use the hardware, maybe it'll give them inspiration to make their software not require 8gb of RAM!

For what it's worth, today I told my manager that some computer was running at 99.9% CPU usage and was crawling because of some java software that is simply supposed to do something like FTP files.  I made the comment, "He needs to write his software for computers that are made today, not 20 years from now."  I have already gone blue in the face from them re-writing something as simple as transferring files in Java, and using UDP... but that's a bit off topic...

The Amiga is from an age when computers were fun, and not everyone knew how to 'use' them.  When if you had a computer, you were most likely picked on as a geek.  That's part of where the nostalgia comes in, but it could potentially bring more people back into the fold if the source code were available, and we could all learn from it as well.

But I would vote for bug fixes before features!  Which I think is the way that most of the new libraries are going.  Getting PeterK's icon.library installed really does improve the overall experience of the Amiga!  I really need to look at the other ones!

slaapliedje
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Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #117 on: July 02, 2013, 11:50:50 PM »
Quote from: slaapliedje;739643
If I recall correctly, one of the biggest omissions of AmigaOS is memory protection, or lack thereof.  If I recall, even AmigaOS 4 doesn't have it?  Or maybe it was only recently added.
As far as I know OS4 doesn't have memory protection. The problem is that the Amiga software architecture is designed on the presumption of processes having free access to the memory map; message-passing is done by handing off pointers between processes, API calls are done by simply jumping to system code with no context-switching. Trying to add memory protection to that would impose huge performance penalties, if it would work at all.
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Offline slaapliedje

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Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #118 on: July 03, 2013, 12:14:29 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;739647
As far as I know OS4 doesn't have memory protection. The problem is that the Amiga software architecture is designed on the presumption of processes having free access to the memory map; message-passing is done by handing off pointers between processes, API calls are done by simply jumping to system code with no context-switching. Trying to add memory protection to that would impose huge performance penalties, if it would work at all.

Yeah, that was my understanding of it as well (from last time I looked into it, and saw articles on one of the 'complaints').  It was kind of hard from the beginning to have such a thing as memory protection.  I do know Linux requires an MMU which is why it won't work on a raw 68k for this reason (unless I'm remembering incorrectly, which is quite possible).

As far as I'm concerned, as long as applications aren't jerks, they should be happy together.  I think memory fragmentation is a bigger issue, isn't it?  (Having so many different banks of memory, some slower than others can't be all that fun to write around in.)

slaapliedje
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Offline nicholas

Re: Open Source Amiga OS
« Reply #119 on: July 03, 2013, 12:57:12 AM »
Quote from: slaapliedje;739649
I think memory fragmentation is a bigger issue, isn't it?  (Having so many different banks of memory, some slower than others can't be all that fun to write around in.)


Put this as the first line in your startup-sequence.

http://www.platon42.de/files/util/TLSFMem.lha
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini