Open Source Amiga OS

[ElPolloDiabl]

The coldfire is interesting, but cold you get the same speed from 68060
at 100mhz?
While we are at it can we have an FPGA implentation of AGA for people still on an A500 or A2000. If you can get at least a 1000 people interested, the project is worth doing.

[slaapliedje]

The coldfire is interesting, but cold you get the same speed from 68060
at 100mhz?
While we are at it can we have an FPGA implentation of AGA for people still on an A500 or A2000. If you can get at least a 1000 people interested, the project is worth doing.

If I recall correctly, the reason the Coldfire project was picked up by the Atari ST/TOS guys and not the Amiga guys is due to it not having 100% of the instruction set that the 68060 supports.  It didn't bother the TOS guys that much because TOS is open source and they were able to tweak the core OS to emulate the bits that were missing through software.  

Here is the story from the Natami team;  http://www.ppa.pl/sprzet/12-questions-to...-natami-team-part-1.html

An FPGA implementation for the OCS/ECS machines to get AGA would be AWESOME!  From both the users and the developers point of view, since then all the developers could actually target AGA or better, without feeling like they're leaving out a huge chunk of users.

slaapliedje

[Manu]

Contrariwise, just because my neighbor invests an assload of time in learning Blender's arcane interface doesn't mean that it was a good use of time and he wouldn't have been better served spending that time to learn his way around the actual functionality of a program with a saner, cleaner UI.

You're grasping at straws here. Prove it

The fact that people can use a tool for something doesn't make it necessarily a good tool. Political prisoners have written on cell walls with their own crap; they still would've been better off with a pen and paper.

Ahh come on, if don't have anything to say why even try.

This is like saying that if I haven't managed to break through a wall by banging my head against it, I just need to bang harder. Strictly speaking it might be true, but wouldn't it make more sense to use a sledgehammer?

And what kind of reasoning is that ? But hey that may be just what you need to do. Bang your head against the wall a few times and sit down in front of Blender and learn something new. In your case the sledghammer in Blender was there all the time you just didin't search long enough to find it.

I never bad-mouthed Inkscape, because I've never used Inkscape. But the fact that you can accomplish good results with the GIMP means only that its backend functionality is good, which I never disputed. It's still a giant pain in the ass to use.

Pain in the ass only matters in how often you do something. Of course I cannot know what you need to get done in GIMP from time to time basis but in my case after a few years using it quite often it's not hard at all. It takes me somethimes a a quick google to refresh my memory if I need to do something that I did a year ago and don't quite remember.

What. I was never talking about algorithms or backend functionality of any sort. What I said was that skinning GIMP to look like Photoshop won't make its UI behave like Photoshop. It'll still be a half-assed, incomplete clone of Photoshop's UI.

I can't argue because I'd never would want GIMP to look like Photoshop, in fact I run circles  around Adobe products if I can. At work I have had to use InDesign or Illustrator. Often I eneded up doing it in Inkscape insted because that's the tool I used more and the UI i know better thus I worked faster with it.

My point is you can cry all day long about how good A is to learn instead of B, but at the end of the day what matters is how often you have use of the programs. Try to use Illustrator once a year and see how easy that is to use. That I call a pain in the ass.

[slaapliedje]

The age old argument of "I spent all my time learning it THIS way, and this other program wants to do it THAT way.  It sucks because it's different!"

I find it funny that when Pagestream was released for Linux, guess what style interface it used?  That's right, the one that Gimp uses.  With a separate toolbox from the main window.  It's perfect for dual screens.  

I realized the other day, when trying to use Dia or Flow to create some network diagrams, that I just don't use Applications anymore... weird, I know...  I'm a Linux system administrator by profession, and I can get things done faster by the command line.  Graphical user interfaces are starting to annoy me.  Maybe it's because when I come home, I play around on my Amiga, and love how it's set up.  Only thing I use Windows for anymore is when I'm in the mood to play an (eye-candy) game.  A good chunk of those are coming to Linux, so that'll eliminate that need.

But overall, the majority of graphical applications I do end up using are Evolution (email) and web browsing.  I could probably use Mutt instead of Evolution, too bad the Web is so graphical these days... or I'd ditch that too!  

But as this thread is about the benefits or the want to open source Amiga, the whole "this open source application's UI sucks!" isn't even remotely on topic.

The Amiga, much like most other graphical interfaces, have guidelines for 'proper' application interfaces.  Much like Gnome and KDE, etc on the Linux side and on the Windows and Mac side.  But they are just guidelines.

I've found every 3D rendering software I've ever played with to be annoying, except perhaps Maya, which was way cool, but I really don't have the talent to use them.  But I also won't go into forums and rant about how much they suck.  I have ranted back at people who put the hate on the Gimp, simply because it's all open source, if you have such a vicious hatred toward it, FIX IT.  The GPL even would let you fork it and call it GIMPSucks if you so wanted to.  You would probably piss off a lot of people, but then so do politicians

slaapliedje

[commodorejohn]

You're grasping at straws here. Prove it

You prove it.

Ahh come on, if don't have anything to say why even try.

The irony that this would be your response to an actual argument is rather staggering.

Pain in the ass only matters in how often you do something. Of course I cannot know what you need to get done in GIMP from time to time basis but in my case after a few years using it quite often it's not hard at all. It takes me somethimes a a quick google to refresh my memory if I need to do something that I did a year ago and don't quite remember.

The fact that you've trained yourself around a crap UI does not make it not a crap UI.

I have ranted back at people who put the hate  on the Gimp, simply because it's all open source, if you have such a  vicious hatred toward it, FIX IT.

Why? There are perfectly good alternatives out there, and it would be far less of a waste of time to use them instead than to try to fix a project created by a culture of people who never cared about good design in the first place.

[Manu]

You prove it.


The irony that this would be your response to an actual argument is rather staggering.


The fact that you've trained yourself around a crap UI does not make it not a crap UI.


Why? There are perfectly good alternatives out there, and it would be far less of a waste of time to use them instead than to try to fix a project created by a culture of people who never cared about good design in the first place.

LOL!  Oh the irony of your replies..... I knew your would take it like a pissing contest.

Ok you won. Feel better now.

[nicholas]

http://xkcd.com/386/

[slaapliedje]

http://xkcd.com/386/

Ha ha, thank you for that, nicholas.  Best way to start off the day!

@commodorejohn  There really aren't any OPEN SOURCE alternatives to the Gimp.  It's the only thing out there even remotely close in functionality to the "industry standard" of Photoshop.  So if the UI is the only thing bothering you, rewrite it.

People who generally call open source supporters as 'freetards' and then turn around and complain that free software sucks and everyone should use something else just don't get it.  Much like the hippies of old didn't get that if they wanted to be actual world shapers, they needed to stop sitting around in drug circles and get out there and change the world.  Unfortunately when they did that they mostly became greedy yuppies.  Stallman remained a hippy neckbeard, but started a huge movement to real software freedom.  And for this he is mocked.

I like that he doesn't own a cell phone

slaapliedje

[wawrzon]

im all for open source in case of amiga, but this is mostly because i relaize there is no place for anything else anymore. open source in most cases cannot replace industry standards. i like inkspace, it is within what i need a usable alternative to illustrator, blender seems ok, especially that it reminds of lightvawe, though the methods are not always that loigical, but gimp is truly not an option!

[nicholas]

Ha ha, thank you for that, nicholas.  Best way to start off the day!

@commodorejohn  There really aren't any OPEN SOURCE alternatives to the Gimp.  It's the only thing out there even remotely close in functionality to the "industry standard" of Photoshop.  So if the UI is the only thing bothering you, rewrite it.

People who generally call open source supporters as 'freetards' and then turn around and complain that free software sucks and everyone should use something else just don't get it.  Much like the hippies of old didn't get that if they wanted to be actual world shapers, they needed to stop sitting around in drug circles and get out there and change the world.  Unfortunately when they did that they mostly became greedy yuppies.  Stallman remained a hippy neckbeard, but started a huge movement to real software freedom.  And for this he is mocked.

I like that he doesn't own a cell phone

slaapliedje

As the late Ghandi once said: "Be the change you want to see in the world".

[stefcep2]

Ha ha, thank you for that, nicholas.  Best way to start off the day!

@commodorejohn  There really aren't any OPEN SOURCE alternatives to the Gimp.  It's the only thing out there even remotely close in functionality to the "industry standard" of Photoshop.  So if the UI is the only thing bothering you, rewrite it.

See thats the Linux mantra.  

Linux users are happy to tell people how much "better" their platform is but when users tell them "You know there is stuff here that from a users point of view is actually ****.." the response is:

"well fix it yourself, you have all the tools, all the source, to make it work exactly how you want it, for free that's the really good thing about open source"

To which the user thinks:" I'm not a ****ing programmer, I just want to use the damned thing without tearing my hair out...how do I remove this **** off my hard drive."

BTW people don't RUN operating systems, they run applications.  And any free app on Linux usually has good or better app on Windows, for free as well if you want it.

[stefcep2]

@CoomodoreJohm.

Most open source fanatics actually have no idea of the importance of usability, especially in the design of their interfaces.  

Who cares if your program can crunch all the filters on a jpeg, but it frustrates the hell out of the user to get to use these tools?

Th Linux community does not know or care that a good user interface is 50 % the programs value.  MS is learning quickly about that by putting a touch screen interface on the desktop..

[nicholas]

See thats the Linux mantra.  

Linux users are happy to tell people how much "better" their platform is but when users tell them "You know there is stuff here that from a users point of view is actually ****.." the response is:

"well fix it yourself, you have all the tools, all the source, to make it work exactly how you want it, for free that's the really good thing about open source"

To which the user thinks:" I'm not a ****ing programmer, I just want to use the damned thing without tearing my hair out...how do I remove this **** off my hard drive."

BTW people don't RUN operating systems, they run applications.  And any free app on Linux usually has good or better app on Windows, for free as well if you want it.

Well use those apps yourself and STFU dictating to everyone else what they should or should not be using.

[commodorejohn]

To which the user thinks:" I'm not a ****ing programmer, I just want to use the damned thing without tearing my hair out...how do I remove this **** off my hard drive."

Yup. And this would be why 90% of the Linux userbase is Linux programmers...and why desktop Linux has something like a 1-3% market share.

Well use those apps yourself and STFU dictating  to everyone else what they should or should not be using.

Nobody was saying anybody should or shouldn't be using anything. You wanna bang your head against the wall of crap UI and tell yourself that it's better for you, you go right ahead. We just want to note that you may find it feels pretty good to stop doing that.

[haywirepc]

Aros is open source...

The amiga grave robbers will never let amiga 68k os to go open source...

But then, AROS 68k can fill that gap. (eventually)

I still check in here all the time. Still love amiga, but I use linux for my everyday machine, and boot to windows for games. (not for long though I think!)

A nicely customized finely tuned linux system after some work is the closest feeling to me of my old amiga love. Yes I have an aros box, but because browsing is not great, I find myself just using my main rig running linux most.
Also, I'm not going to run an os that only uses one of my 8 cores...

[Terminills]

Yup. And this would be why 90% of the Linux userbase is Linux programmers...and why desktop Linux has something like a 1-3% market share.


Nobody was saying anybody should or shouldn't be using anything. You wanna bang your head against the wall of crap UI and tell yourself that it's better for you, you go right ahead. We just want to note that you may find it feels pretty good to stop doing that.