Best IDE to CF HDD solution

[AmigaBruno]

Thanks for all your replies! I'd never even heard of the option of using SD cards as an Amiga hard drive before. I've only found one adaptor for this on eBay. I've never even used a CF card to do anything at all, but as people think this is ideal for an Amiga hard drive, it seems that now is the time to start using them. The main thing is to put my new A1200 to some use which takes advantage of the AGA graphics. Not all that much AGA software has ever been produced, so the most important thing is to get an AGA version of Deluxe Paint, or some other graphics software with some detailed instructions on how to use it. This may mean downloading an AGA version of Deluxe Paint and buying a book by a third party, possibly in German. Searches on eBay for Deluxe Paint don't usually bring up an AGA version. Only one has just come up on eBay UK, but I don't want to pay that price at the moment, due to all my other expenses of the IDE to CF adaptor and CF card, Virgin Media, and actually having a social life.

[stefcep2]

Dpaint 4.5 and 5 were AGA.

On amibay"

Max transfer and mask

    When using onboard IDE and scsi.device, a maxtransfer setting of 0x1fe00 (or lower) is required on all partitions with any file system (to avoid read- and write-errors).
    Be aware that wrong (too high) values are mentioned too many times on EAB.
    Specific max transfer settings are not required if you use IDEfix97 on internal IDE, when using PFS3 All-in-One or when using PCMCIA
    I do not know which drivers for third party IDE controllers are affected. It is likely that drivers made before 1994 (before EIDE, and later ATA-2 in 1996) are affected.
    The maxtransfer setting limits the max size of one file transfer. It has no effect on speed. (Even battlefield 3 uses 128kB and less )
    The reason for the max transfer issue has recently been found, see this thread. (Also due to changing ATA specs)
    Mask settings are for DMA capable controllers and not required for Amiga IDE or PCMCIA use.

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=19899

[AmigaBruno]

I found this on http://uk.ebid.net/for-sale/disque-dur-amiga-1200-2300-jeux-aga-cd32-ecs-ocs-102073203.htm  for a device which looks similar to most of them (translation follows) -



"Certains jeux (Hybris, Sensible Soccer 512 kb, Toki, Pang,  Turican, Arkanoid, Carnage, Donkey Kong, Final Fight, DrMario,  Dynablaster, Grand Monster Slam, Ghouls n'Ghots, Golden Axe,  International Karate +, Jim Power, James Pond 1 & 2,Lotus,  Micromachines, Motorhead, New Year Lemmings 199192, Pacmania, Rick  Dangerous, Speedball, BCKid, Strider ....) FONCTIONNENT SUR UN AMIGA  1200 DE BASE SANS EXTENSION MEMOIRE, avec une méthode qui permet de  lancer un jeu sans passer par le workbench (notice explicative fournie).

              Une extension mémoire de 4 Mo minimum est obligatoire  pour faire fonctionner le Workbench , les jeux AGA, CD32 et certains  jeux OCS,ECS."
       
     
Some games (Hybris, Sensible Soccer 512 kb, Toki, Pang,  Turican, Arkanoid, Carnage, Donkey Kong, Final Fight, DrMario,  Dynablaster, Grand Monster Slam, Ghouls n'Ghots, Golden Axe,  International Karate +, Jim Power, James Pond 1 & 2,Lotus,  Micromachines, Motorhead, New Year Lemmings 199192, Pacmania, Rick  Dangerous, Speedball, BCKid, Strider ....) WORK ON A STANDARD AMIGA  1200 WITHOUT RAM UPGRADE, with a technique which allows a game to run without the Workbench (instructions included).
     
A RAM upgrade of 4Mb minimum is essential to use Workbench, AGA, CD32, and some OCS and ECS games.
 
So, I wonder if someone can explain this and tell me which of these devices (if any) will run most games without a 4Mb RAM upgrade.

[Robert17]

It probably needs extra Ram as it's using WHDLoad for those games - it's a way of loading games from an icon in workbench without using the floppy disks, but it needs a few mb extra memory.

Where are you located? Someone near might have some software/games they'd be happy to pass on

Robert.

[AmigaBruno]

It probably needs extra Ram as it's using WHDLoad for those games - it's a way of loading games from an icon in workbench without using the floppy disks, but it needs a few mb extra memory.

Where are you located? Someone near might have some software/games they'd be happy to pass on

Robert.

I'm in London, but that's not important. Lots of or even all commercial Amiga software is available for download. The point is that these IDE to CF adaptors are publicised as an easy way to gain access to a vast collection of Amiga software, but now it seems that (at least when it comes to games relying on custom floppy disk formats) you need a RAM upgrade which probably costs more than the price of this IDE/CF device. The alternative is to buy an IDE CF adaptor and a blank card, then copy applications and games onto the card using a cheap USB CF reader (which is required either way if you want to copy any software onto the card youself), but some floppy games can't be loaded from the card unless I buy additional RAM. The way to avoid this is to accumulate some more floppy disks. AFAIK the cheapest RAM expansion, apart from eBay auctions, is http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=1100 for £71.99.

[Coolhand]

dont buy one of those overpriced relics, unless you're just interested in collecting the hardware or something.  I don't really see how they can justify those prices when you can get a much better spanking new proper 128mb accellerator for less than a 4mb hawk or something, anyway.

you can run some older games, ones that came on a single disk for example, i think though that most (i'm assuming over 50% but perhaps more even?)games wont actually run on a 2mb amiga - the preloaded cards from ebayers don't cover this point at all, its all very misleading if you're not doing the research into it.

for a proper WHDload rig that will run anything you throw at it, you need at least the 128mb accellerator (yes all that ram is useful, for example, running the 'talky' cd32 beneath a steel sky from CF) (£80?) an adapter and decent CF (maybe 15 total - you can get cheaper from china, but thats what you'll pay for guaranteed amiga compatibility on ebay/uk stock - you'll also have to configure this and load all the WHD load games on yourself) and a WHDload license (another 15) without the license, a few games are crippled or wont run.

so £130 minimum, if you wanted to save some time and get a preload thats £145, (the preloaded cards don't come with a WHDload license either) though that gives you access to a huge library, you could do all that on a fairly old pc with emulator for just the cost of WHDL license but wheres the fun in that.

the other way is to get a device that will store and load adf images, a floppy emulator, that you install in place of your floppy drive, allows you to load stuff from virtual floppies, your amiga can't tell the difference.

[AmigaBruno]

OK, I think that's enough to help me decide! Thanks for all your comments.

At the moment, I plan to get an IDE to CF adaptor and a blank CF card. The CF card will be a Sandisk Ultra, but could be smaller than 4Gb. I'll also buy a USB CF card reader to transfer some Amiga software onto the card. I'll see how I get on with that. I haven't used my A1200 for a few days now, because it's still floppy based and I've been concentrating on my A500 Plus with GVP SCSI hard drive, 3Mb RAM, and now plugged into a 1084S monitor.

Please search for and read my other recent threads for details of my other Amiga activities.

[AmigaBruno]

Well, I've just an adaptor with cable and a blank 4Gb CF card on eBay  for a total of £17.85. They're both from the same seller, so should  arrive at the same time in a few days from now.

I've also bought a USB CF card reader for £3.50 which should arrive on the same day.

[AmigaBruno]

I've now got the CF card reader, the IDE CF card adaptor and the CF card itself. I hope later today to get it installed, formatted, partitioned, a copy of Workbench installed onto it, then some applications, games and demos copied onto it and running.

I realise now that I haven't prepared myself enough in advance, so I need some advice. I could format the CF card either while inserted in the Amiga IDE CF adaptor or in the USB CF card reader using an emulator. If I format it while in the Amiga it will have to be FFS format under Workbench 2.05. I haven't got a copy of Workbench 3 on floppy disk at the moment, but that didn't come with the SFS filing system. I've never used SFS, anyway. My ADF transfer kit stopped working again some time ago, so I can't use that at the moment. I know I'll need to partition the 4Gb CF card, but I'm not sure how many partitions I need.  

The first thing I'll do is check I've got the right screwdriver to open up the A1200, but I probably have.

If all else fails, I'll buy another one of these IDE CF kits next week, already formatted, partitioned, and with lots of games and demos pre installed.

It seems there are no A1200 RAM upgrades I can afford at the moment, so I'm stuck on 2Mb. This kit may enable me to copy some non AGA applications and games which require more than 2Mb and/or some Fast RAM onto floppy disk, though. After that, I could run them on my A500 Plus with 3Mb RAM, which can be cheaply upgraded to 8Mb or even 9Mb RAM.

[AmigaBruno]

My progress so far is as follows. Of course, there are some things I've forgotten about the Amiga, as well as some things I never knew. I never had a hard drive for my Amigas in the past.

I've found out I've got the right kind of screwdriver to unscrew my Amiga A1200. My old A500 required a torx screwdriver of a specific size. Luckily, I lived next door to a hardware store at the time. I returned the original screwdriver a few minutes later for one of the right size.

I watched a video on Youtube about how to format and install the CF card. It recommended using HD Toolbox to format and partition the CF card, before transferring it to a PC running WinUAE to install a version of Classic Workbench by Bloodwych of EAB.

Unfortunately, I've only got Workbench 2.05 at the moment, which doesn't contain HD Toolbox. I can't find any HD software on it at all.

I inserted the CF card into the CF card reader while running Ubuntu Linux, which can read and write various formats. It said that the card was in
MS-DOS format, but there was no option to reformat it as any other format.

I now plan to fit the IDE CF adaptor to my Amiga A1200, with the power off, then turn it on and see if the hard drive light comes on. I will then insert the CF card with the power off before turning the A1200 on again to see if I get any options to format and partition it. I know this setup is compatible with the A600 as well, so I hope this will enable me to get started. If this fails, then I'll try to format and prepare it under WinUAE, but I haven't run it recently and I never ever liked the idea of emulating an Amiga on a PC. I had it running a demo disk called Demonia 31 a few months ago.

[AmigaBruno]

My work installing the CF card as a hard drive has ended with me successfully installing the interface, so that the hard drive light flickered, but that's all so far! There's no sign of a new hard drive waiting to be formatted.

I suddenly feel very tired, so I think it's time for bed.

I hope to format the CF card either on the A1200 or under WinUAE sometime later today (Thursday).

One problem is that I don't know if I can get my ADF transfer kit working again, so the only transfers for the moment would be onto the CF card itself.

[fishy_fiz]

If youre on a budget I wouldnt even bother with a CF card. Theyre much more expensive than a standard 2.5inch ide drive, and actually marginally slower (although seek times are better on a CF card).
Im not sure where this whole CF card being a good option for an a600/a1200 came from, but unfortunately I fell for it and got a 32gig card. While this works fine I couldve either saved a decent chunk of money (32gig cf cards are pretty pricey per gig), or got a 320gig 2.5inch ide drive for the same price.

Remember, its mostly the a1200's ide port that dictates speed, not the storage medium (the a1200's IDE port is so slow that there'll be little difference, regardless of theoretical speed of a device).

Should be easy enough to find a 20gig or so drive for about $10 on ebay. If money was a concern Id go that route. Amikit are pretty expensive too, Id steer clear of them too unless you want to effectively donate to them for dealing with amiga stuff.

[AmigaBruno]

If youre on a budget I wouldnt even bother with a CF card. Theyre much more expensive than a standard 2.5inch ide drive, and actually marginally slower (although seek times are better on a CF card).
Im not sure where this whole CF card being a good option for an a600/a1200 came from, but unfortunately I fell for it and got a 32gig card. While this works fine I couldve either saved a decent chunk of money (32gig cf cards are pretty pricey per gig), or got a 320gig 2.5inch ide drive for the same price.

Remember, its mostly the a1200's ide port that dictates speed, not the storage medium (the a1200's IDE port is so slow that there'll be little difference, regardless of theoretical speed of a device).

Should be easy enough to find a 20gig or so drive for about $10 on ebay. If money was a concern Id go that route. Amikit are pretty expensive too, Id steer clear of them too unless you want to effectively donate to them for dealing with amiga stuff.

Obviously, I've already bought the CF card, so your solution involves me spending even more money. Apart from that, I was told that 4Gb was the maximum size of CF card allowed with this setup or even on the A1200 at all, including if it was an actual IDE hard drive. There's also the fact that it gives me another way to transfer files between the A1200 and any computer or device which can read CF cards.

I'll contact the seller now to see if he's got any suggestions on how to format and partition the CF card. His instructions only explain how to install the adaptor and where to download games.

[ElPolloDiabl]

Ask someone to send you the 3.0 or 3.1 disks in adf. Otherwise they are included in Amiga Forever about $30, but I haven't checked in a while.

[AmigaBruno]

Ask someone to send you the 3.0 or 3.1 disks in adf. Otherwise they are included in Amiga Forever about $30, but I haven't checked in a while.

I've already got the Workbench 3.1 set of disks in ADF format, but I may have to copy them onto Amiga floppy disks. Unfortunately, my ADF transfer kit hasn't worked for some time. Perhaps I can use these ADF files under WinUAE, but last night I was getting lots of errors saying something like "Can't create device" followed by some numbers, although earlier on I managed to get the Kickstart 2 and Kickstart 3 boot screens. Eventually, all I could get were the 1.3 and AROS boot screens.

[Leffmann]

Do you have a Kickstart 3.0 or 3.1 ROM to use with WinUAE, so you can emulate an A1200?

The most straight forward way to do this is to install ClassicWB in WinUAE and then attach the CF hard drive, partition and quick-format it, and copy the finished ClassicWB to the CF.