R-IDSC-E/R SCSI-to-IDE bridge board

[blakespot]

Hey folks,

So some years ago I picked up an R-IDSC-E/R device that lets IDE devices be used on the SCSI bus. The board is a bridge that makes the SCSI host think the IDE device is a SCSI device. As far as I know, they work well for Amiga and Mac.

I have just put the unit to use and have a 4GB CF card with 3 Amiga partitions on it and copied my old OS 3.1 HD contents to it and it boots fine and things have been running well.

I just noticed, thought, several instances of double clicking in WB on a file in a window (lacking an icon) and executing it in the little pop up field that comes up causes the system to freeze. This did not happen with my spinning disk. These are demo files, I speak of.

Are there known issues with these SCSI converters?

More info on the board can be found here:

http://www.synack.net/~bbraun/ridsce.html

And here is a sort of manual for the device I own:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060312054101/http://www.iodata.com/manuals/R-IDSC-E050418.pdf

I am having issues executing certain demos that are without an icon - just clicking on them in the list view in the workbench or typing their name in the shell. Other shell commands work fine, like those in c/. The IDE lite on the board flashes and the front HD lite stays lit and the system freezes. I am using Phase 5 2060 board as the SCSI controller.

Is there an issue with certain file scenarios on this converter bridge that folks know about? Thanks.




bp

[midwan]

Hi there,

I have the exact same adapter on my Cyberstorm's MKII 060 SCSI interface for a few years now, a normal IDE HDD connected on the other end. I've had no problems with file access but it was picky about the jumpers on my HDD.

I then tried using an IDE->CF adapter on it, and I've had problems booting off it entirely: the reading LED would turn on and it would freeze there forever. It took me a lot of time of frustration and tests to figure out what was wrong, until I finally did: the filesystem on the disk (I was using SFS, when I reformatted the disk with PFS it worked right away).

I would recommend you have a look at the filesystem you're using at first, then perhaps another CF card if that's possible to determine if the problem is coming from there. Some are known to behave strangely...

Hope the above helps a bit!

[blakespot]

This sounds like a very similar problem, indeed.

First step, I suppose, is how do I determine what filesystem is used on the CF card. There are three partitions on that 4GB card as it came to me:

HD0: 999MB
HD1: 2GB
HD2: 1GB

I Quick Formatted HD0: on the Workbench to FFS and then copies the boot volume (spinning disc contents) over to that card partition. So, is it really FFS? How do I tell what the other partitions are?

Would I be seeing this problem on an FFS-formatted volume? You mention SFS was a problem and PFS worked ok. Do I need PFS? Is that avail for WB 3.1?

Thanks.




bp

[Robert17]

Hi there,

This sounds like it could be a maxtransfer issue. When using CF Cards on A600/A1200s IDE Port, if the maxtransfer value is set too high (in HDToolbox) it can cause all sorts of odd probles. It's down to CF Cards not being happy with transferring large blocks of data at once, so you need to set a fairly low value. Try changing the maxtrasfer to 0x1fe00 then save and reboot, see how it goes. Changing this setting will not destroy your data or result in slower transfers so it's worth a shot

Hope it works!

Robert.

[freqmax]

I recall a problem with the Promise PDC40718 (SATA300 TX4) that limited transfers to max 4 kB.
If all fails, use maxtransfer=512 bytes.

[midwan]

As the 2 people above me mentioned, it's also worth checking the MaxTransfer value in HDToolBox (sorry, I forgot to mention that).

You don't necessarily need PFS, though it's a better filesystem altogether than FFS of course (and now freely available on Aminet). From what you describe, it seems that at least HD0: is formatted using FFS. You can check each partition's filesystem with HDToolBox...

[blakespot]

Update. I am now using this board with a GVP HD+8 SCSI controller, no longer the Blizzard A2060's SCSI controller. Now it won't recognize the board / drive(s) at all. (It does recognize a SCSI HD on the chain.)

Does anyone have a tip for the jumper settings of this device w/ that GVP controller?

Thanks.



bp

[danbeaver]

That bridge interface is a bit old and finicky with certain devices unlike the Acard; for example it does work well with newer CD/DVD drives and certain CF cards.  A different CF card, use of the TruIDE device, or using an Acard SCSI-to-IDE device may work.

[Lurch]

I gave up and purchased a SCSI card reader, resolved all my problems. Although mechware isn't selling them anymore :-(

The prices on ebay are laughable, maybe posting a wanted ad on amibay or the marketplace here?

[blakespot]

I have an XSurf.

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/xsurf

Could I take the CF card converter from the R-IDSC-E/R bundle and attach it to the IDE port on the XSurf and get non-booting but solid support from a 4GB CF card that way?

Thanks.


bp

[guest11527]

So some years ago I picked up an R-IDSC-E/R device that lets IDE devices be used on the SCSI bus. The board is a bridge that makes the SCSI host think the IDE device is a SCSI device. As far as I know, they work well for Amiga and Mac.

Are there known issues with these SCSI converters?

Potentially many. The problem is that the whole SCSI protocol is quite a bit different than the IDE "protocol". Note well that this is different for CD-Roms, they just encapsulate SCSI commands in IDE packets, a technique known as ATAPI. Thus, it is simple to build an ATAPI to SCSI adapter, but not so trivial to build an IDE to SCSI adapter for harddisks.

Your average Amiga SCSI hostadapter will issue a couple of SCSI commands besides the READ/WRITE sector commands, as for example SCSI INQUIRY or GET CAPICITY. Their emulation requies a bit more care, and whether that's done correctly is another issue. I don't know.

Another issue is timing. Modern IDE drives will deliver data much faster than the average Amiga SCSI hostadapter can handle. If your host adapter has any means to use the synchronous (slower! yes really!) SCSI protocol, use that. The difference is that hard disks in the asynchronous protocol can deliver data to the host adapter without waiting for the handshake, and thus are delivering data by magnitudes too fast. Synchronous transfers require the disk to wait for the handshake. Which is slower, but at least slows the drive down to the speed the poor Amiga hardware can handle.

[LoadWB]

I have an XSurf.

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/xsurf

Could I take the CF card converter from the R-IDSC-E/R bundle and attach it to the IDE port on the XSurf and get non-booting but solid support from a 4GB CF card that way?

Thanks.


bp

I have never been successful in getting my X-Surf to recognize a CF card.  YMMV.

[blakespot]

Ugh.

These are all factors in deciding whether to keep this A2000 '020 to use as a WHDLoad machine (primarily) or to get an A1200 (maybe do Individual Comp 030 / 64MB w/ it) for that task.

(I just pulled an '060 Blizzard out of it that I am about to sell.)

I have a GVP HD+8 SCSI controller/hard card with a 700MB SCSI disk on it that's full. I need more storage. SCSI<->IDE seems touchy. XSurf isn't solid IDE for CF then?

Recommendations? Get a diff IDE controller, Zorro II or clockport? Or, an actual SCSI CF reader?

Oy.



bp

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Just chiming in to say the Tandem IDE controller card worked great in my A2000 before, with physical hard drives and CF cards.  Non-booting only, unfortunately (but I've heard there are hacks around this, or possibly use a boot floppy to assign everything to the Tandem?).  Just a thought, if you really want IDE "on the cheap".