When emulators outperform the real deal.

[AmigaClassicRule]

Nor will anyone else care....they'll all get slung in the bin! Your 060 and Picasso and PPC cards...the lot!
............

I still don't understand why no one out there (by the time that happens) would be making a new modern 68k Amiga? Natami proofs it is possible. I am sure there will be a new Amiga 68k out there with better custom chip than AGA and that suppor these expansion cards.

[direktorn]

With 3D Printing technology it will only be a matter of time before we could just print out a new classic Amiga.

:laughing:

[direktorn]

Every time you turn your amiga on, you use up what is remaining of its functional existence
 
These machines have a finite life.

True, but we are not there yet..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KETi6FO565s&feature=player_embedded

[AmigaClassicRule]

True, but we are not there yet..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KETi6FO565s&feature=player_embedded

Exactly...that is a 37 year old computer and still running like a horse...so I am not losing sleep for my A1200

[fishy_fiz]

For me, sometimes its not always all about performance. For some of these older machines there's appeal is seeing what results you can get on them. The almost, "instant on" nature, plus some other quirks of the physical device are some charateristics that cant be emulated as well.

Now having said that there's definately things I like about emulation too. As some here probably know Im a big amithlon fan. Having the sorts of raw grunt available to emulation on x86 systems can really freshen up OS3.x. making it not far removed from the NG options.

I love my a1200, but theyre just different kettles of fish.

[Ral-Clan]

You CANNOT replicate watching an Amiga scene demo on Real Hardware with an RGB monitor with the Real Amigas analogue sound output. Period. End of story. Sure you can mimick the look on a lcd or crt with scanlines and crap but its not the same, the colors arent as rich for one. And there is no pc hardware out there that has the low end phat analogue amiga sound.

Richer colours are just a factor of the chroma signal strength (i.e. saturation setting).  If you want richer colours in WinUAE, increase the saturation of the emulator's video output, or the colour setting of the monitor.  Heck, there's nothing stopping you from using a CRT monitor with WinUAE....you could even use a TV card to output straight to a 1084 if you really wanted to.

As for the Paula's "phat analogue amiga sound"...the Paula is a digital chip, NOT analogue like the SID is.  It operates in the digital realm then has an digital to analogue converter to feed audio signals out to the real world, just like any PC sound card or PC motherboard sound chip does (except the PC's A/D converter can operate in 8, 16 or 24 bits instead of just 8 bits).

I'm not saying that hardware Amigas are bad -- they're fantastic -- but I just think your arguments about why emulation cannot match the real thing are not based on sound information.

The only thing that emulation will never be able to match is the feeling of a real Amiga keyboard, sliding in a disk, the real Amiga mouse feel - i.e. the physical, tactile elements.  But I'd bet that if you put a PC motherboard in an A500 case and ran WinUAE outputting to a CRT monitor, with a Keyrah adapter to the original keyboard, and some sort of adapter to allow you to use a real Amiga mouse, you could trick many people into believing that the hardware (i.e. circuits) inside was original.

[AmigaClassicRule]

Richer colours are just a factor of the chroma signal strength (i.e. saturation setting).  If you want richer colours in WinUAE, increase the saturation of the emulator's video output, or the colour setting of the monitor.  Heck, there's nothing stopping you from using a CRT monitor with WinUAE....you could even use a TV card to output straight to a 1084 if you really wanted to.

As for the Paula's "phat analogue amiga sound"...the Paula is a digital chip, NOT analogue like the SID is.  It operates in the digital realm then has an digital to analogue converter to feed audio signals out to the real world, just like any PC sound card or PC motherboard sound chip does (except the PC's A/D converter can operate in 8, 16 or 24 bits instead of just 8 bits).

I'm not saying that hardware Amigas are bad -- they're fantastic -- but I just think your arguments about why emulation cannot match the real thing are not based on sound information.

The only thing that emulation will never be able to match is the feeling of a real Amiga keyboard, sliding in a disk, the real Amiga mouse feel - i.e. the physical, tactile elements.  But I'd bet that if you put a PC motherboard in an A500 case and ran WinUAE outputting to a CRT monitor, with a Keyrah adapter to the original keyboard, and some sort of adapter to allow you to use a real Amiga mouse, you could trick many people into believing that the hardware (i.e. circuits) inside was original.

Only problem here you have to boot through Windows first...that destroyed everything in there by itself. Making the desire for the real thing out beats your argument...at least for me it did.

[Ral-Clan]

Only problem here you have to boot through Windows first...that destroyed everything in there by itself. Making the desire for the real thing out beats your argument...at least for me it did.

Yes you have to boot through Windows....or Linux to start UAE, but you can always make a minimal, stripped down installation where you don't even see the host OS.  Other than the BIOS screen which displays when your computer turns on, you will be booting straight into AmigaOS.  Maybe on some motherboards you can even disable the BIOS display screen - so straight from power-on you will only see AmigaOS booting.  The Cloanto Amiga Forever CD can boot like this (just put it straight into your DVD drive, turn on the computer and you're straight into Amiga OS) and I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for people to hide the little linux boot screen that shows for a few seconds even with that setup.

Anyway, my point wasn't about the booting process, it was about the actual feel of the emulation when it was running as compared to an actual hardware Amiga when it was running.  I'll bet if you had both a real A500 and an A500 empty case with PC/WinUAE inside it running the same game and outputting to identical monitors, set up side by side, then you sat a person in front to play both, few would be able to tell which was real hardware inside the case and which was emulation.

[direktorn]

For me, sometimes its not always all about performance. For some of these older machines there's appeal is seeing what results you can get on them. The almost, "instant on" nature, plus some other quirks of the physical device are some charateristics that cant be emulated as well.
 
Now having said that there's definately things I like about emulation too. As some here probably know Im a big amithlon fan. Having the sorts of raw grunt available to emulation on x86 systems can really freshen up OS3.x. making it not far removed from the NG options.
 
I love my a1200, but theyre just different kettles of fish.

I think you said it well. It seems we have to different kind of miggy-friendes here:
 
1.) The retro type that want to play and watch demos/games as it used to be 20 years ago, preferably on a TV with a RF-modulator or a RGB-cable. They are not any speedfreaks and had never owned a accelrator card in their lives.
 
2.) The kind I belongs to, that still insists and try to make my amiga a real-day-to-day workhorse. We love PPC and AmigaOS 4.1 and try to use AmigaOS for surfing the web, play games, mp3, listen to webradio. We never gave up and had faith for a long time and still thinks AmigaOS has a place beyond gaming.
 
My initial reason for creating this thread where not to create a blame war about how one should exerience the amiga platform, rather a post to say "hey Amiga still rocks!".
 
The real thing is still the real thing but not everyone has unlimited space in their homes to have unlimited computers. My PC is already hooked up to my amplifier and so to my flatscreen and my projector and with digital audio from HDMI.
 
For me it's the same with NES emulators, for two weeks ago I played Kid Icarus from start on my Windows box using a Wireless USB gamepad together with my projector, wow that worked great. Sure I could have hooked up NES to my amp and that would have worked to but would have taken me some time to setup, this was more a click-n-run thing.