Pegasos II vs AmigaOne

[NicoPPC]

Crumb wrote:
April does anything apart from slowing down everything? Why it slows down Articia to 100Mhz instead of 133?

April does not slow down everything. April DOES not slow down the bus, this is setup by the FirmWare (you can read the FirmWare startup serial output).
And even if the April WOULD slow down the computer it WOULD be worth because it DOES fix ArticiaS issue.

 Why Pegasos II still has compatibility issues with some DDR dimms if it has been set up with conservative settings?

There are indeed , some imconpatibles memory module, but nothing compare to the ArticiaS 's hell.

Why PegasosII still has lock-ups with the IDE? The southbridge is still initialized incorrectly (like in the pegasos1)? Problems with the interrupts? Wasn't it an ArticiaS issue?

It has never been said it was because of the ArticiaS, but a bug (maybe lack of doc) of the VIA8231.
This problem is not Pegasos specific. And it IS fix in software in Linux. And you can solve it in MorphOS 1.4, you have to disable the removable feautre of you CD/DVD/ZIP drive using UnitControl

If doing Articia drivers is not so problematic why the UDMA OS4 drivers are taking do long?

Well, maybe because ArticiaS DMA doesn't work
(I'm just ironic here, I dunno at all !!)

Why the Pegasos hasn't a Firewire or floppy driver yet?

Pegasos DOES have driver for floppy and FireWire using Linux or OpenBSD (only floppy I guess).
About MorphOS certainly because they don't want to support stone age device (for floppy), and because FireWire need a driver but also the whole stack ...

None of both solutions seems to be 100% safe yet. Both parties have to improve their drivers a lot. When the drivers are finished it will be the time to compare.

Pegasos IS safe.

[IonDeluxe]

@Darthx

You are right, AmigaInc did just exactly this with their AmigaDe project, where they partnered with Microsoft.

Oh wait.. were you refering to Genesi here?

Yes I was referring to Genesi, the Amiga DE deal with MS was new product being sold under DE for MS...not really the same thing. Its kinda hard to hijack your own software base anyway

I'm not sure what lies/rubbish from Genesi that you are refering to?

Well the glaring one is Gary Hare for CEO, but the list is pretty exhaustive dating back some two years ago.Another one is: "we support the community and want OS4 on pegasos" When in actual fact they will do nothing to get OS4 on pegasos and expect AmigaInc\Hyperion to port it for them whilst also thumbing thier nose at the requirements for OS4 on thier machine.
The bottom line here is that the community division would have resolved itself simply by licensing the pegasos which they have had plenty of time to do.

Now there is also plenty on the Amiga Inc side to go on about(coupons changing plans, paychecks not being delivered), and there is alot behind the companies involved, the history of event since the demise of commodorre that also needs to be taken into account, but that is for another thread and another time.

I cant wait for OS4 to hit commercial release because then not only will we have a comparison to draw upon, but also 90% of the lies FUD, and whathaveyou will HAVE to be resolved, and maybe, just maybe we can get past the slanging match that has been going on for the past 2 years

Thankyou for your comments

[itix]

April does anything apart from slowing down everything? Why it slows down Articia to 100Mhz instead of 133?

It doesn't. I don't have April here and nothing is faster. Only slower (just think of DMA transfers errors with
onboard ethernet).

[Warface]

lempkee wrote:
warface: i would really like to see where you quoted that from (about hyperion releasing a1 os4 native versions as a new product!)

Hyperion talks about about remastering their old games to be OS4 native. Beg your pardon for my ignorance, but as you all seem so sure about me being wrong - will you please enlighten me?

lame troll attempts , but then again native versions will run better than a wrapper but there is allready native versions for several which i am not in liberty to discuss here.

The same applies to MorphOS, rest assured.  Mind you, I haven't seen any proof that I was wrong. Even in the _only_ thing you argue with my post I haven't heard a valid argument: am I'm wrong then, will it be for free?

My understanding is clearly this, and I stand to that, and if I will receive a free OS4 version for my owned games, please share the happy news with me. I even asked for Hyperion's confirmation when my statement was questioned.

Thanks for calling me a troll just for that.

anyway since u mentioned that hyperion have a tight schedule etc, ofcourse they do! but they havent said like "HEYY, we are now only porting os4! , we stopped all out game dev!" oh and btw they got several new people in hyperion now, maybe u forgot to mention it? , and yes they do GAMES only!.... oh no.. seems like your warface is becoming pale..

You're very close to the borderline of openly offending me. Their schedule and that we have only a pre-release lacking key features only - speaks for itself. Feel free to interpretate it as you like, I stated my opinion. You have your own, it won't make a troll out of me.

[Hooligan_DCS]

@Crumb
>you could read pc-formatted disks...
I know that nowadays it's not as important, but it's a little annoying. If the motherboard includes a floppy controller why should I buy a more expensive usb or floptical drive?

----------------
USB Memory, 8MB  16 euros
USB Memory, 64MB 29 euros

Floppydrive      10 euros
Disks 10pack     4 euros

Compare price and usability:
1) USB Memory.. plug'n'play, pretty fast and a joy to use.
2) Floppydisk.. screech craach, slow as hell, and probably broken in less than a month anyway

Your option would be... ofcourse... ?

[Crumb]

"And even if the April WOULD slow down the computer it WOULD be worth because it DOES fix ArticiaS issue."

With proper drivers (built with more documentation) probably that "issue" wouldn't exist.

"but nothing compare to the ArticiaS 's hell. "
I still wonder why A1 supports non registered memory in both banks and pegasos1 not. And that leads me to think that it's incorrectly initialized due to lack of documentation.

As there are lock ups with the IDE interface of the southbridge it makes me think that they lack some important info.

BTW, I don't think much people will invest >350€ just to run linux if they can buy much faster x86 computers. I'm interested in AmigaOS-like OSes.

[lempkee]

ikir:why i said u where trolling

prices aint as cheap as u say unless u live in the country where its produced, CUSTOMS cost, taxes COSTs etc.

[lempkee]

warface: first of all i would like to see where hyperion said that their os4 native versions whould be an NEW PRODUCT (hence we who own their ppc versions  of their games).

i have seen NO such comment anywhere, and yes they will all be "native" soon enough.

there has been chats about maybe adding them to the os4 final cd but nothing is confirmed, as it was just a suggestion and that goes for filling the cd up with demos (OS4 NATIVE) of their games.

i got upset because u insinuated that the Native versions would cost money or most of all will be a new product!.
and because u said hyperion have no time to port games because of their os4 development , and btw there was a news item not long ago about JUST that.


ps:bear in mind that i will get upset aswell if i have to buy Shogo , heretic2 , freespace and quake2 all over again (at full price) just to get the os4 native version , but i dont see it happening as i where pointing out earlier, there is simply no POSTS/NEWS about this from hyperion itself.


sorry if i offended you but i feel i answered the proper way , but then again big threads like this where people use every thing against each others (mos vs aos4) well its easy to get upset too fast.

[Ryu]

As far as im concerned the original question has been answered long ago and this thread is border line on trolling, if it continues to get worse I will have to take action, as a fellow moderator has already stated. Give it a rest guys.

[Darth_X]

IonDeluxe wrote:

Yes I was referring to Genesi, the Amiga DE deal with MS was new product being sold under DE for MS...not really the same thing. Its kinda hard to hijack your own software base anyway

I thought it was the way AmigaInc alienated their other partners by choosing M$ over them. One of AmigaInc's partners ended up taking M$ to court. Of course choosing M$ alienated many Amiga users.

(M$ is responsible for swallowing up one of my favourite Amiga companies.)

I'm not sure what lies/rubbish from Genesi that you are refering to?

Well the glaring one is Gary Hare for CEO, but the list is pretty exhaustive dating back some two years ago.
[/quote]

Garry Hare is a real person:
http://www.ccon.org/conf97/program/speakers.html#Hare

Another one is: "we support the community and want OS4 on pegasos" When in actual fact they will do nothing to get OS4 on pegasos and expect AmigaInc\Hyperion to port it for them whilst also thumbing thier nose at the requirements for OS4 on thier machine.

What you probably mean is "who is going to pay for OS4 to be ported to the Pegasos?", right?

A Hyperion rep mentioned the development costs of OS4 being close to $5 million. So any port of OS4 to Pegasos would require a serious chunk of change.

There are 15+ operating systems being ported to the pegasos, most of these are being ported by the developers themselves and  not funded by Genesi. Genesi is only supplying free boards and support for these boards.

Hyperion need to recover the development costs and the fastest way for them to do this is by finishing OS4 for the AmigaOne first then pursuing other markets for OS4.

Of course a certain 'far eastern' company would have a larger interest in investing in the OS4 project because they get to sell lots of AmigaOne PPC boards and funding OS4 is small amount of money compared to what is spent supporting Windows platforms.

[Warface]

lempkee wrote:
ikir:why i said u where trolling

prices aint as cheap as u say unless u live in the country where its produced, CUSTOMS cost, taxes COSTs etc.

False reasoning. Customs, taxes are usually percentages of the original price. They make the cheap expensive, but the expensive even more expensive. It makes the difference in the prices to increase, and not the contrary.

At least it works that way here. Maybe your country has a different customs/taxation system?Or you live where the AmigaONE is produced?

[Seehund]

IonDeluxe wrote:
@Darthx

I'm not sure what lies/rubbish from Genesi that you are refering to?

Well the glaring one is Gary Hare for CEO,

If there were any lies about Hare, they seem to have come from AInc.
Fleecy Moss to be specific.

but the list is pretty exhaustive dating back some two years ago.Another one is: "we support the community and want OS4 on pegasos" When in actual fact they will do nothing to get OS4 on pegasos and expect AmigaInc\Hyperion to port it for them whilst also thumbing thier nose at the requirements for OS4 on thier machine.

With all due respect, that's ludicrous.
No hardware company, especially companies like Genesi or Apple who also have their own OSes, will want to "have" AmigaOS or anything else that doesn't bring a significant commercial advantage. Especially not if THEY have to pay for it by licensing, bundling and support.

AInc's (or Hyperion's, depending on how you see it) customers, i.e. you and me, want AmigaOS. Hardware companies have nothing to do with AInc or AmigaOS. But WE are not allowed to buy AmigaOS unless we also go along with the charade that there's any reason to only buy our hardware on an "Amiga market".

It's just bizarre to put the blame for the unavailability of AmigaOS for Hardware X (which is sold with Operating System Y) on the obvious and natural reluctance of Hardware Company Z to buy a totally useless license.

They (Genesi) "expect AInc/Hyperion to port AOS4 for them"?
Sweet Jesus! Are Eyetech porting AOS4 to the Terons themselves?
No, WE expect the SOFTWARE PRODUCERS to PRODUCE THE SOFTWARE for US, the SOFTWARE PRODUCERS' CUSTOMERS. Then WE expect the SOFTWARE PRODUCERS TO SELL US THEIR SOFTWARE.
These are the fundamentals.
Anything beyond that, like OEM licensing, bundling and whatnot can be additional options if someone's interested - it simply cannot be made to be the only possible way of ever porting and selling the software. If the software is like AmigaOS, a small niche OS without any hardware "of its own", then it will die if one imposes such unnecessary restrictions on its possible hardware base.

As a side note, we already know of one rather big (at least when compared to Eyetech) American computer dealer who inquired about selling Pegasos hardware under that "Amiga" license, but he stopped getting replies from AInc. That must have been the fault of the hardware producer, right?

@ an earlier comment of yours:

What I dont like is the image they promote as "supporting the Amiga community" when in fact what they are doing is hijacking that said community to support themselves in direct competition to the real amiga solution.

You're not even joking now, are you?
OK, I never got the contract that AInc sent out when they were formed, which we should sign to validate that we and our custom from then on would belong to AInc by default. Could you send me a copy of yours?


"Supporting the Amiga community" can (when applied to commercial companies) be producing and selling stuff that community members need/want. This is what companies like Hyperion and Genesi are doing.



...

Oh. The topic was "piece of hardware X vs. piece of hardware Y".
Here's an overview of the two mobos.

[Warface]

i got upset because u insinuated that the Native versions would cost money or most of all will be a new product!.

The reason for that is the expression remastered for OS4. Remastered Lucasarts films, various soundtracks are usually sold standalone and for a full or at the minimum an additional price.

You're talking about something usually called "free" "update", but I nowhere seen Hyperion using either of these expressions. Hence my presumption.

However, I understand your concern now, but yet I'd like to have official word from Hyperion, and I still stand to my interpretation. Hope you see what I base my presumption on.

[Dalamar]

@BigBenAussie

what is the most exciting prospect about the Amiga One and AOS 4 is the potential to re-ignite the passions of people who once had an Amiga

Nice post Ben.  I think you hit my feelings right on.  I too feel the "return from the cold" which would make me lean more toward a name.  It's the nostalgia for me as well as the computing platform that isn't Linux and most certainly NOT Microsuck.  

Welcome to A.org!

[uncharted]

YAY!

Another thread flooded by insecure males having a thinly disguised penis size competition. :-o

What a surprise, everyone is right, and everyone must the final word.  There's something similar but with windows/PCs on AmigaWorld (That's AmIgAIncFleecylOVerMikEBWorld for those who were dropped on thier heads as babies)

Just a quick straw poll, does anyone think what is said (or more likely repeated for the 10000th time) will make a blind bit of difference?

Am I imagining that there used to be good, civilised, interesting discussions on the net? :-?

And someone on IRC wondered why I started getting uncomfortable when a AOS Vs. MOS discussion started up, now you know why.

Or am I totally wrong???

[downix]

"but nothing compare to the ArticiaS 's hell. "
I still wonder why A1 supports non registered memory in both banks and pegasos1 not. And that leads me to think that it's incorrectly initialized due to lack of documentation.

Hrm?  This is news, as I'm running 2 banks of unregistered RAM here.