Just bought GVP HD8+ hard drive!

[gertsy]

Okay I had a look out back and I'm right out of parrots......  I got a slug!
Sorry just went all Monty Python there for a sec.

Seriously, I've got a 50MB, 105MB and 240Mb all Quantum Prodrive LPS. (made in Japan) These each weigh 450g.
I've also got a 1.1GB Quantum DSP3107L which is Malaysian made but it's 500g so the postage will be more.

The 2 Quantum Fireball 2.1GB units I' rather keep for myself.
 
So if your willing to pay the postage from Oz, around $25 (16GBP) with tracking and postpack. I'll bubble wrap your choice and send it to you.  They all have 2.1 OS on them. I'm guessing your A500+ is std 2.1 ROM ?
I tested each drive on my A500/A590 for a little while and they work fine(apart from the standard SCSI HD whine. Arrh Compact Flash cards, so nice and quiet).
As with all old HDs all it takes is one drop and "crunch" paper weight.  But the Quantums do head park and seem to be very resilient. IMO.  No guarantees..

Anyway, let me know if you want me to send one over the water.

Cheers

[AmigaBruno]

Okay I had a look out back and I'm right out of parrots......  I got a slug!
Sorry just went all Monty Python there for a sec.

Seriously, I've got a 50MB, 105MB and 240Mb all Quantum Prodrive LPS. (made in Japan) These each weigh 450g.
I've also got a 1.1GB Quantum DSP3107L which is Malaysian made but it's 500g so the postage will be more.

The 2 Quantum Fireball 2.1GB units I' rather keep for myself.
 
So if your willing to pay the postage from Oz, around $25 (16GBP) with tracking and postpack. I'll bubble wrap your choice and send it to you.  They all have 2.1 OS on them. I'm guessing your A500+ is std 2.1 ROM ?
I tested each drive on my A500/A590 for a little while and they work fine(apart from the standard SCSI HD whine. Arrh Compact Flash cards, so nice and quiet).
As with all old HDs all it takes is one drop and "crunch" paper weight.  But the Quantums do head park and seem to be very resilient. IMO.  No guarantees..

Anyway, let me know if you want me to send one over the water.

Cheers

Thanks for all this information!  I know from recent investigations that although Amiga A1200s have internal IDE interfaces, they're sometimes fitted with adaptors to take SCSI drives.  I wanted to send you a PM to ask you if a certain SCSI hard drive was compatible, but it seems I can't PM you through this site, only through messagers I don't use, or at least using another identity. This drive seems such a bargain they may sell out if I post the link on here. Out of your offered drives, the Quantum  240Mb sounds best. A$25/|£16 is fine. The only problem is waiting 12 days or longer for it to arrive. My ROM is Kickstart 37.175 , the standard for the A500 Plus. The eBay seller has an eBay shop, has made loads of sales and I've bought from him before, so I know he's OK and an Amiga expert.  I may buy the bargain SCSI drive, then the 240Mb one from you later. I'll wait and see what the eBay seller tells me about what drives he has available.

[gertsy]

NP, The reason they are free is because I've moved to SCSI-Flash Card adaptors and I can't see myself going back. But I haven't cut any holes in my stuff. That would be convenience at too great a cost. If you are looking at buying multiple drives for capacity and transportability Id suggest the same as Oldsmobile_Mike.
They're quiet, Cool(As in temp), fast and relatively cheap.

Enjoy the journey, remember it's just as much fun as the destination.

[Zetr0]

If I could offer any help or perhaps an alternative I would recommend the following -

4.3GB Fujistu SCA80 £9.99 inc delivery (eBay.co.uk BIN)


and this adaptor

50 /68 / 80 SCA SCSI adaptor £2.69 including postage (eBay.co.uk BIN)


This combination works for me on my GVP HC8 and HD500 setups.  It also works on my GVP Combi 040 and A590.

Limitations

I have done a lot of setups using the GVP based devices and I have noted some limitations - as to why they are they I am unsure.

While the GVP HC8 can find pretty much any properly terminated device on the SCSI chain, I have found a limitation of use to 3.67GB of storage (without a Guru ROM)

I have found that should I have say a partition setup outside a 3.67GB area it is not mounted and unusable. If I have a partition that spans past this 3.67GB barrier most of the time its not mounted (and unusable) but on the very odd occasion that it is all writing to that partition is corrupted.

I have tested this under FFS / SFS and NSD - (have not tested this with PFS3)

On my A590 however (using SFS / NSD and Version 7 ROM a full 8.1GB HDD works flawlessly)

If you are ever to buy a SCS HDD, remember to ensure that it is LVD and or SE - do not buy HVD based SCSI drive as this simply will not work for you.

[gertsy]

If I could offer any help or perhaps an alternative I would recommend the following .....
and this adaptor
..
..
This combination works for me on my GVP HC8 and HD500 setups.  It also works on my GVP Combi 040 and A590.

Limitations

I have done a lot of setups using the GVP based devices and I have noted some limitations - as to why they are they I am unsure.

While the GVP HC8 can find pretty much any properly terminated device on the SCSI chain, I have found a limitation of use to 3.67GB of storage (without a Guru ROM)

I have found that should I have say a partition setup outside a 3.67GB area it is not mounted and unusable. If I have a partition that spans past this 3.67GB barrier most of the time its not mounted (and unusable) but on the very odd occasion that it is all writing to that partition is corrupted.

I have tested this under FFS / SFS and NSD - (have not tested this with PFS3)

On my A590 however (using SFS / NSD and Version 7 ROM a full 8.1GB HDD works flawlessly)

If you are ever to buy a SCS HDD, remember to ensure that it is LVD and or SE - do not buy HVD based SCSI drive as this simply will not work for you.

Well done Zetr0. There had to be someone in the UK that could help out.  I only just realised that Mechware is out of SCSI-Flash Card adaptors. Options evaporating.
Thanks for the Low Voltage Differential (LVD) / Single ended (SE) tip. I've actually got one of those adaptors but packed it away when I couldn't get it to work with a 9GB drive from a Compaq Server enclosure. Will have to review it for an external enclosure I have.

Much cheaper local option AmigaBruno.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

While the GVP HC8 can find pretty much any properly terminated device on the SCSI chain, I have found a limitation of use to 3.67GB of storage (without a Guru ROM)

Random question - you don't happen to know of any sources for a Guru ROM, do you?  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I only just realised that Mechware is out of SCSI-Flash Card adaptors.

He's out of the more commonly used type, but does have plenty of PCD-60B's available, which is what I'm using in my GVP sidecar case.  Had to remove the faceplate and top cover (both just pop off) to get it to fit, but she does fit in there.  

http://a4000t.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_79&products_id=250

[gertsy]

He's out of the more commonly used type, but does have plenty of PCD-60B's available, which is what I'm using in my GVP sidecar case.  Had to remove the faceplate and top cover (both just pop off) to get it to fit, but she does fit in there.  

http://a4000t.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=65_79&products_id=250

95 Dollar. I suppose that's what you pay for hens teeth.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Reasonable enough compared to the cost of most Amiga things these days.

[k4lmp]

Reasonable enough compared to the cost of most Amiga things these days.

Absolutely agree.  Mechy stands behind his gear, and has great support.  Worth every penny.  I have bought from him many times, and have never been disappointed.

[AmigaBruno]

If I could offer any help or perhaps an alternative I would recommend the following -

4.3GB Fujistu SCA80 £9.99 inc delivery (eBay.co.uk BIN)


and this adaptor

50 /68 / 80 SCA SCSI adaptor £2.69 including postage (eBay.co.uk BIN)


This combination works for me on my GVP HC8 and HD500 setups.  It also works on my GVP Combi 040 and A590.

Limitations

I have done a lot of setups using the GVP based devices and I have noted some limitations - as to why they are they I am unsure.

While the GVP HC8 can find pretty much any properly terminated device on the SCSI chain, I have found a limitation of use to 3.67GB of storage (without a Guru ROM)

I have found that should I have say a partition setup outside a 3.67GB area it is not mounted and unusable. If I have a partition that spans past this 3.67GB barrier most of the time its not mounted (and unusable) but on the very odd occasion that it is all writing to that partition is corrupted.

I have tested this under FFS / SFS and NSD - (have not tested this with PFS3)

On my A590 however (using SFS / NSD and Version 7 ROM a full 8.1GB HDD works flawlessly)

If you are ever to buy a SCS HDD, remember to ensure that it is LVD and or SE - do not buy HVD based SCSI drive as this simply will not work for you.

OK, thanks. This drive seems to be the largest size allowed with the Amiga, or perhaps it needs to be formatted as two partitions of 2Gb each. My Kickstart ROM is 37.175 or 2.0 , so I can't run Workbench 3.X at the moment. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about or may never even have heard of SFS or NSD. I suppose they're systems for more advanced Amigas than I'm used to. I'm afraid I have no real idea what you're talking about in the third paragraph under the heading "Limitations" which starts "I have found that...", but it sounds like some kind of error caused by having a drive which is larger than the designers of the A500 and A500 Plus imagined ever being used with those computers.

I've copied and run the GVP installer software, which only mentions AmigaDOS and FFS formats. More details of what I discovered with this software in a separate post. I've also unscrewed and looked at the whole unit, but not tested it with a multimeter yet.

The bargain SCSI 50 pin hard drives I found are still available on eBay. There are still 10 units available, meaning no more have been sold so I've decided to post the link on here so that people can tell me whether or not these are compatible with my GVP SCSI unit. They're 80Mb, so the designers of this hardware should have imagined that people may upgrade to that capacity so I doubt it would cause problems by being too big. I'll be watching this and will buy one if they're about to sell out. I hope that someone tells me whether or not they're compatible before then. I was trying to work out if they're too high to fit in the GVP case.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170986450162?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Unfortunately, I don't know about the different types of hard drives mentioned in your final paragraph.

[Zetr0]

@AmigaBruno

Hello there, my apologies for perhaps confusing you with detail, I will try and clear this up for you.  but first if I may, I would not recommend those 80MB SCSI HDD's at that price - it is also touch and go if it fitted within the GVP HD8+ casing.  To be sincerely honest, I would sooner send you a prepared one for postage cost before I let you suffer those prices.

I should also mention that POWER is very important here, the original GVP A500HD8+ provides 4amps on the +5 rail buy ONLY 0.5amps on the +12v rail.  if you try to run a HDD that requires more +12 volt power (like newer SCSI drives) you will destroy the PSU.

Please check your GVP Power Supply, if you are unsure - just take a picture and post it here I am sure either I or a fellow member can help.

_____________________


Now, In ALL my experiments the GVP controller (without GURU-ROM) appears limited to only being able to access 3.67GB of data storage.  It can see larger drives and with HDToolsBox you can even create partitions - however any partition that is outside the first 3.67GB does not mount, nor does any partition that spans past this amount.

I.e. Partition HD3: size of [ 1.1GB ] starting at 3GB to 4.1GB spans past this 3.67GB clipping area.  I am unsure why, I have been informed that this should not be, however I have tried many disks and many GVP controllers and the above holds true for the following -

Geforce - 040 / Combi 040
Impact A2000 HC
Impact A2000 HC Series II
Impact A2000 HC+8 Series II
Impact A500 HD8+ Series II

I have tried the above on various A2000 / A4000 motherboards as well as an A3000 motherboard.

Now, this isn't a problem, after all one could have a couple of disks and that should easily be most Amiga software published - most certainly all of the best software.

That aside, its very easy to set up a large hard disk to only use the first 3.67GB of space.  I would be more than happy to help you - it maybe daunting at first - but once you get the hang of it - it truly is easy.

_____________________


Now, FFS or Fast File System (available with KS2.x) can partition up to 4GB of data in one fat chunk however with the GVP controller this can cause problems, so I would suggest perhaps two or three partitions something like

DH0: 512MB (System) - Workbench Install
DH1: 2.1GB (Games)
DH2: 1GB (Work)

This will certainly give you a great start to getting the most from your A500.  I purchased a couple of PC SCSI cards so I could prepare HardDisks on my PC under WinUAE - its much MUCH quicker - if you would like I can help you with your hard-disk.

_____________________


Now a little more information that I think will help you.

SFS - Smart File System
This allows for VERY large partition, 128GB I believe, it also requires a minimum 020 processor - however CPU aside it is 20% faster access than FFS.

PFS3 - Professional File System 3
Now open source (for the most part) PFS3 supports larger Hard Disks as well as large Partition sizes (about 100GB) - it also has optimizations for stock 68000 CPU's all the way up to 040 and 060 processors.  Like SFS, PFS3 also provides a speed boost in both accessing the device and transferring data.  However this increase is down to the controller, the device and the CPU of the host system.

NSD - New Style Device
This is an older method now - however a lot of devices support this interface (some by a little hacking) to allow direct commands to the device.  this allows for larger disk sizes to be supported.


There, I hope that helps, if there is anything thats too complicated or you would like more detail on, please just ask =)

[AmigaBruno]

I've downloaded a copy of the GVP installation software, converted it from DMS to ADF format, then copied it across to my Amiga onto a floppy disk in df0: . I took some notes, but not all that detailed. Here are the results.

Throughout all my attempts to use GVP Fastprep and GVP Expertprep, I found that my GVP unit and/or hard drive was listed as SCSI device 6 and a Quantum hard drive of 0Mb capacity. AmigaDOS and Workbench fail to recognise that there is any device dh0: .

I thought I may have lost all the data on my hard drive, and it was totally corrupted, so the only way to use it again was to format it. Most of, or nearly all of the options are ghosted.

The error messages I've had include the following.

This setup is illegal. All partitions must have at least one cylinder! Try again.

Mounting volume DH0:
Formatting volume DH0:

An error occured during AmigaDOS format. AmigaDOS format failed!

I thought I'd made some more notes, but I haven't. I'll go through this procedure again soon, but just from memory, here's what else happened.

I think the Fastprep and/or Expertprep software detected a ROM and which version the ROM was.

There's another program, which I think is called GVPScsiCtrl, which I ran from the Shell. The options include -m to mount a device and -r to rescan for devices not detected at startup. When I typed -r the hard drive read light came on, but nothing else happened.

That's all I can tell you at the moment. I'll run this software again in the next couple of hours and take some more detailed notes. It seems that a component in the GVP unit may have failed, which somehow allows the hard drive read light to come on, but prevents the drive from being read. All I can do is check the resistors. I know someone who can repair electronic devices, including laptops and notebooks and is a member of a group which gives free advice and free repairs. Another member of the group is an Amiga enthusiast who owns three A1200s. He recently visited me with someone else to help me get my flat reorganised and tidied up. I pointed out the Amiga, which had floppy disks covering up the name Amiga and asked if he knew the name of it, which he did. In that case, perhaps he can help repair the GVP unit.  I'll let you know.

[AmigaBruno]

@AmigaBruno

Hello there, my apologies for perhaps confusing you with detail, I will try and clear this up for you.  but first if I may, I would not recommend those 80MB SCSI HDD's at that price - it is also touch and go if it fitted within the GVP HD8+ casing.  To be sincerely honest, I would sooner send you a prepared one for postage cost before I let you suffer those prices.

I should also mention that POWER is very important here, the original GVP A500HD8+ provides 4amps on the +5 rail buy ONLY 0.5amps on the +12v rail.  if you try to run a HDD that requires more +12 volt power (like newer SCSI drives) you will destroy the PSU.

Please check your GVP Power Supply, if you are unsure - just take a picture and post it here I am sure either I or a fellow member can help.

_____________________


Now, In ALL my experiments the GVP controller (without GURU-ROM) appears limited to only being able to access 3.67GB of data storage.  It can see larger drives and with HDToolsBox you can even create partitions - however any partition that is outside the first 3.67GB does not mount, nor does any partition that spans past this amount.

I.e. Partition HD3: size of [ 1.1GB ] starting at 3GB to 4.1GB spans past this 3.67GB clipping area.  I am unsure why, I have been informed that this should not be, however I have tried many disks and many GVP controllers and the above holds true for the following -

Geforce - 040 / Combi 040
Impact A2000 HC
Impact A2000 HC Series II
Impact A2000 HC+8 Series II
Impact A500 HD8+ Series II

I have tried the above on various A2000 / A4000 motherboards as well as an A3000 motherboard.

Now, this isn't a problem, after all one could have a couple of disks and that should easily be most Amiga software published - most certainly all of the best software.

That aside, its very easy to set up a large hard disk to only use the first 3.67GB of space.  I would be more than happy to help you - it maybe daunting at first - but once you get the hang of it - it truly is easy.

_____________________


Now, FFS or Fast File System (available with KS2.x) can partition up to 4GB of data in one fat chunk however with the GVP controller this can cause problems, so I would suggest perhaps two or three partitions something like

DH0: 512MB (System) - Workbench Install
DH1: 2.1GB (Games)
DH2: 1GB (Work)

This will certainly give you a great start to getting the most from your A500.  I purchased a couple of PC SCSI cards so I could prepare HardDisks on my PC under WinUAE - its much MUCH quicker - if you would like I can help you with your hard-disk.

_____________________


Now a little more information that I think will help you.

SFS - Smart File System
This allows for VERY large partition, 128GB I believe, it also requires a minimum 020 processor - however CPU aside it is 20% faster access than FFS.

PFS3 - Professional File System 3
Now open source (for the most part) PFS3 supports larger Hard Disks as well as large Partition sizes (about 100GB) - it also has optimizations for stock 68000 CPU's all the way up to 040 and 060 processors.  Like SFS, PFS3 also provides a speed boost in both accessing the device and transferring data.  However this increase is down to the controller, the device and the CPU of the host system.

NSD - New Style Device
This is an older method now - however a lot of devices support this interface (some by a little hacking) to allow direct commands to the device.  this allows for larger disk sizes to be supported.


There, I hope that helps, if there is anything thats too complicated or you would like more detail on, please just ask =)

I think that what's good about the 80Mb SCSI hard drive I posted the link to is that it's old, but unused, the price  is only £15, and postage is free. This is compared to other hard drives costing more, with a classic Mac OS installed, and where the postage is about as much, or even more than the hard drive itself. If you search for "SCSI hard drive 50 pin Mb", then you'll see what I mean. Thanks for your offer of a prepared hard drive for postage only. How much?

My GVP power supply details as printed on the sticky label are as follows.

DVE switching power supply
Model No. DSA1502
Input 100-250V
47-63Hz 0.32A
Output +5V 2A
+12V 0.5A

I hope this tells you something.

[Zetr0]

@AmigaBruno

Hello there,  looking at the specification of you PSU (its identical to mine)

5volts at 2amps
12 volts at 0.5 amps

This sadly reduces the options available for what Hard-Disks you can use.  So before you buy make sure you ask the seller what power requirements the device has - should that they exceed either 5 volt or 12 amperage - then you should avoid these devices.

I would be happy to prepare you a 4.1GB Viking - free just the cost of postage which would be under a £5 for shipping within the UK.  I could possibly throw in a spare SCA80 adapter as well for cost - i.e. you can just refund me the ebay price for a new one.

I will say that the Drive I have here requires more amps on the +12 volt so might not be good for you at the moment - alternatively you could look at upgrading your GVP A500HD8 power supply to an ATX or mATX PSU.



This is the pin-out for the GVP A500HD8+ Power Supply / Cable, if you have a few moments with a soldering iron - one can easily interface this with an ATX or mATX power supply.

I hope that helps.

[AmigaBruno]

@AmigaBruno

Hello there,  looking at the specification of you PSU (its identical to mine)

5volts at 2amps
12 volts at 0.5 amps

This sadly reduces the options available for what Hard-Disks you can use.  So before you buy make sure you ask the seller what power requirements the device has - should that they exceed either 5 volt or 12 amperage - then you should avoid these devices.

I would be happy to prepare you a 4.1GB Viking - free just the cost of postage which would be under a £5 for shipping within the UK.  I could possibly throw in a spare SCA80 adapter as well for cost - i.e. you can just refund me the ebay price for a new one.

I will say that the Drive I have here requires more amps on the +12 volt so might not be good for you at the moment - alternatively you could look at upgrading your GVP A500HD8 power supply to an ATX or mATX PSU.



This is the pin-out for the GVP A500HD8+ Power Supply / Cable, if you have a few moments with a soldering iron - one can easily interface this with an ATX or mATX power supply.

I hope that helps.

Well, I'm a bit confused by this offer now. Before I post details of some more error messages and readings from the GVP software at the end of this message, I need to ask you a couple of questions. First of all, you say that your PSU for your GVP unit is the same as mine. You have offered me a 4.1Gb Viking hard drive for just the cost of postage, which you say is £5 or less.  Unfortunately, I also need an SCA80 adaptor, because it hasn't got a 50 pin connector. You don't say how much this will cost me, though. Here's one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCSI-SCA-80-Pin-F-to-50-Pin-M-Internal-Adapter-K-/320597027825?pt=UK_Computing_Drive_Cables_Adapters&hash=item4aa5126bf1 and here's another one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SCSI-SCA-80-Pin-F-to-50-Pin-M-Internal-Adapter-/330436901004?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item4cef92f88c , but I don't know if either of them is compatible. You then go on to say that "the Drive I have here requires more amps on the +12 volt", so it might not work unless I upgrade my PSU to an ATX or mATX PSU, but you don't say how much it would cost to buy or adapt one which is compatible with this unit. How much? I feel I've already spent about enough on this thing, which only worked for 5 days and caused some hardship. It's starting to look like a bottomless pit  which could just cost me more and more money.

As for the GVP installation software, here are some more error messages and data.

FastPrep says "This drive was prepped under the old system which wasn't correct! Do you want to Re-Prep it?"

ExpertPrep gives the following details on Page2

Hard Disk Drive Info
Name: QUANTUM
Size: 0Mb
ID/Rev: CTS40S 3.09

I'm not sure what all of this means, but I think that to sum up, something is being detected while something else isn't. This may indicate that a particular component has blown out. This component could cost next to nothing, then my main expense would be a soldering iron and solder. I would then have access to all my hard drive data again, so long as I haven't accidentally wiped it when I tried to reformat, but didn't get any messages that the format had failed. Earlier on, I did get messages saying that it couldn't format the hard drive.