Status report on AmigaOS 4.2 development

[koaftder]

aCube manufactures PPC bords for industrial purpose, if they could manu. Lots of useless thing could be removed and make boards more cheaper.facture bords just for just for Amiga user, I would say that price would lower.

Everyone keeps saying that, but everyone has yet to find ONE person or company who bought one of those boards for any purpose other than amiga
os4...


No really, if people are using them for industrial purposes, where?

There are 150 boards for embedded applications that are 1/10th of the price. No one in their right mind would buy these for a manufacturing business, factory,automation, or any other industrial purpose. I CALL BULL**** on these being for anything other than running os4.

And nothing personal, I just call bull**** because people keep saying this but no one in how many years has been able to show me or anyone else
any company or even individual who used one of these boards for industrial applications. Sure maybe someone did, but its not a volume larger
then the volume they sold for os4 users. They won't release sales figures... or even any examples of people using them for their "so called" main purpose.

Why is that?

They're probably keeping their real business separated from the Amiga related crap. If they do consulting, they could be selling their kit along with their services and you'd never hear about it.  They have to be making money somewhere, I don't see how they could survive just from servicing the HyperionOS crowd.

[utri007]

They're probably keeping their real business separated from the Amiga related crap. If they do consulting, they could be selling their kit along with their services and you'd never hear about it. They have to be making money somewhere, I don't see how they could survive just from servicing the HyperionOS crowd.

Of course they do that I can imagine what would happend if they would say that "our biggest customer is XXX"

1000x mails per day to that customer from OS4 haters and moon bunny nuts, who would tell that customer representatives how stupid they are if they use ACube expensive products.

I would also say that those customers hasn't ever heard name ACube

As for industrial use customer don't actually pay for products, they pay for services and/or support. So it is prety much same, if price 10€ or 10 000€. Stopping factory can cost millions of euros per minit, wich makes prices under millions meaningless.

Industrial use, is how ever only answer why Sam boards are like they are, full of useless/weird expansions and features as for Amiga user point of view.

[haywirepc]

They're probably keeping their real business separated from the Amiga related crap. If they do consulting, they could be selling their kit along with their services and you'd never hear about it. They have to be making money somewhere, I don't see how they could survive just from servicing the HyperionOS crowd.
Of course they do that  I can imagine what would happend if they would say that "our biggest customer is XXX"

Oh come on, thats a bunch of bull****. Not one person in the amiga community has in how many years now seen of or heard of any of these boards in any company, project or place in the world besides for running amiga OS?

I hate to be cynical but I think that story is just a bull**** story to justify charging so much for them. The whole thing makes no sense. "This boards are primarily for embedded applications" Yet no one I know, in the computer world,electronics world, robotics world, manufacturing world,(besides even the amiga community) has ever seen one, heard of one, or used one?

I STILL call bull**** on that story until someone shows me someone besides an
amiga fan using one for any other reason than to run AOS4 on it.

Yep, I STILL call bull****.

[Duce]

Don't like the product, don't buy it.  Pretty simple really.  I personally recommend everyone tries the NG Amiga platforms.  They really are a lot of fun to use, assuming you have your head screwed on right.

This place would be a lot easier if the dedicated wingnuts of each given camp would just have red or blue themed avatars.  

IT'S AN AMIGA LIKE OS, ANY OF THESE.  The functional, usable equivalent of  pissing into an oncoming wind when it comes to real world usage these days.  Fun.  A hobby.  Nothing more.  Love it for what it is, and support it - but man, be realistic.  If you think ANYONE is running Blender for full time rendering on a SAM or MOS rig vs. the $100 PC beside them that will outperform said "Amiga" by 100x, you're on glue.  No one is encoding MP3's on one.  That's stupid, and so are the benchmarks proving superiority one camp vs. the next.  Enjoy them for what they are, eh?  Support the community as a whole, don't be a factionalist turd.

A hobby.
That's AROS.  That's MOS.  That's OS4.  There will be no "comeuppance".  Windows 8 sucking won't bring us to the big leagues.  We're bush league.
I have a lot of fun in said "bush league" these days.

[commodorejohn]

Don't like the product, don't buy it.  Pretty simple really.  I personally recommend everyone tries the NG Amiga platforms.  They really are a lot of fun to use, assuming you have your head screwed on right.

Again, though, how exactly are we supposed to do that? MorphOS I can try by picking up a used Mac at the local recycle center or public school for beer money (one that will, if I turn out not to like MorphOS, serve perfectly well for running OS9 and old MECC games) and burning a live CD; there's no such comparable option for OS4. (Correct me if I'm missing something, but) In order to give OS4 a shot, I'd have to drop $500-900 on a board (which does at least tend to come with the OS,) more for a PSU, hard drive, RAM, mouse, and keyboard at least (that's assuming OS4 supports the onboard Silicon Motion audio/video?) That's an investment of up to $1100 just to try the thing! See the problem here?

I would honestly be 100% open to giving OS4 a shot if there were any reasonably accessible way to give it a try and find out if I like it before blowing that kind of money on a system, but there's just not.

[utri007]

They're probably keeping their real business separated from the Amiga related crap. If they do consulting, they could be selling their kit along with their services and you'd never hear about it. They have to be making money somewhere, I don't see how they could survive just from servicing the HyperionOS crowd.
Of course they do that  I can imagine what would happend if they would say that "our biggest customer is XXX"

Oh come on, thats a bunch of bull****. Not one person in the amiga community has in how many years now seen of or heard of any of these boards in any company, project or place in the world besides for running amiga OS?

I hate to be cynical but I think that story is just a bull**** story to justify charging so much for them. The whole thing makes no sense. "This boards are primarily for embedded applications" Yet no one I know, in the computer world,electronics world, robotics world, manufacturing world,(besides even the amiga community) has ever seen one, heard of one, or used one?

I STILL call bull**** on that story until someone shows me someone besides an
amiga fan using one for any other reason than to run AOS4 on it.

Yep, I STILL call bull****.

Strong statement.

Might be partially true, who knows. Undeniable fact is that those mobos are designed to embedded use, another fact is that several companies sell them to that use. Seems also that there are Sam variants wich hasn't sold to Amiga use.

But I wouldn't wondwer if anyone in this community doesn't know any other purpose those boards, that just not unbeliable.

[wawrzon]

Again, though, how exactly are we supposed to do that? MorphOS I can try by picking up a used Mac at the local recycle center or public school for beer money (one that will, if I turn out not to like MorphOS, serve perfectly well for running OS9 and old MECC games) and burning a live CD; there's no such comparable option for OS4. (Correct me if I'm missing something, but) In order to give OS4 a shot, I'd have to drop $500-900 on a board (which does at least tend to come with the OS,) more for a PSU, hard drive, RAM, mouse, and keyboard at least (that's assuming OS4 supports the onboard Silicon Motion audio/video?) That's an investment of up to $1100 just to try the thing! See the problem here?

I would honestly be 100% open to giving OS4 a shot if there were any reasonably accessible way to give it a try and find out if I like it before blowing that kind of money on a system, but there's just not.

that might exactly be a reason not to provide a demo version and not support any cheaply available hardware. if you need to invest considerable amount of money beforehand you will not easily give up, even if what you get wouldnt live to your expectations. a customer in such a situation tries to sit it through, convince himself that the product is not so bad and hope for the future improvements. especially if there is no return option, or it means even more stress and investments, like for instance high postal risks and costs.

[eliyahu]

I would honestly be 100% open to giving OS4 a shot if there were any reasonably accessible way to give it a try and find out if I like it before blowing that kind of money on a system, but there's just not.

you're right. it's a serious barrier to entry. when i was interested in purchasing a next-generation amiga back in 2010, i looked around for anyone nearby with one, to no avail. the closest i could get to 'trying' one of the machines out was youtube videos, reviews online, and reading people's experiences on the fora.

in the end i took the plunge on the least expensive system out there, a SAM440ep-flex. i'm really glad i did, because i loved it and have been hooked since. but i would have been out of a few hundred smackers otherwise. the same holds true for MOS, but there you'd be hard pressed not to find someone with a compatible machine, and if you still couldn't, the lowest-cost system is a darn sight cheaper.

it really is a shame because these machines are a great amiga experience. i think they're losing out on a bunch of potential customers.

-- eliyahu

[Borut]

I would honestly be 100% open to giving OS4 a shot if there were any reasonably accessible way to give it a try and find out if I like it before blowing that kind of money on a system, but there's just not.[/QUOTE]

You can try MOS on a Mac - thats quite cheap and easy - if You really want to try. You can be assured AOS 4 (if that is your preferred taste) is for sure not lightyears different from that experience.

[antikk]

Aren't there any amiga  clubs/meetings not far away from shere you live? Or any os4 users not far away so you can test it first?

[Duce]

John - I'm sure most OS4 guys wouldn't mind letting you VNC into their machines.  I know I've done it for a few guys that wanted to try it.

The hardware is expensive when new, but since the 460's came out the old 440's have come on the market used at reasonable (relative to their brand new, initial launch prices) prices.  Guy not far from me recently sold his 440 flex mobo and OS4 license for $200.  Still not as cheap as a Mac Mini (I got mine for free, essentially) and MOS, though.

[TheBilgeRat]

@John, you complaining about the price is just one thing though. You did tell me there where things that AOS4.1 can't do that windows can do, which was another complaint of yours. Again, what are those things?

We've been there before...

Steam comes to mind...
Eclipse...
Silverlight...
Visual Studio...

[utri007]

After some years Sam boards price will rise again, as every unique hardware does, so 200 is very good price for mobo and licence.

Sam 440 Flex has a best software support currently and it is surpricingly fast.

[AmigaClassicRule]

After some years Sam boards price will rise again, as every unique hardware does, so 200 is very good price for mobo and licence.

Sam 440 Flex has a best software support currently and it is surpricingly fast.

But isn't it when SAM 440 Flex have best software support these same software can run on AmigaOne X1000 too without importing them or every AmigaOS 4.x hardware is different?

[Methuselas]

 Guy not far from me recently sold his 440 flex mobo and OS4 license for $200.  Still not as cheap as a Mac Mini (I got mine for free, essentially) and MOS, though.

The 440's are no longer produced and quite frankly for as underpowered as it is, 200$ should be the NEW, purchase price, not used.

I remember when the Efika first came out. I was REALLY tempted to buy one, 'cos it was 99$. I stopped short when people said they were having problems due to the limited ram, but that's a GOOD entry level price and you got a 30 minute time limit with MorphOS. You can even still by Efika's from Directron.

This is what completely baffles me about Hyperion and how over the years, I've gradually stopped being a "Red Camp" cheerleader. Please explain this logic to me, 'cos I really don't get it. I buy a SAM for 500$. Then, I have to get a hard drive, gfx card, case, power supply. I'll say I'm using an old dell keyboard and USB IR mouse I have ('cos I have spares.) I get all this for a total of 750$. After 2 or 3 weeks, I decide that OS4 isn't for me. Well, there's no 30 day warranty. I can't "return my product for a full refund", therefore I'm stuck with it. Even if I could return it, odds are, I'm stuck paying for shipping, which is just more money out of my pocket. Only I don't want it. So, my only option is to sell it on eBay or Amibay or via Craigslist. *BUT*, I have to sell it at a loss, 'cos regardless of the fact I only used it 2 or 3 weeks, it's still *USED* and there's always a risk when you buy used. This is Amigaland, remember?

Then, there's the subject of a warranty. While I am of the 100% opinion that Amigakit would honor this: "Hey. I bought [Name]'s SAM as he didn't want it anymore. I have his original receipt, all the boxes, manuals, etc., but it seems to not be working, yet it's still under the original warranty. Can I return it?"

However, my experiences with companies like SoftHut, VisionTek and Anti-Gravity made me skeptical with Amiga Businesses. In fact, the only reason I hold Amigakit in such high regard is a) I've seen how they package their shipments b) I've seen nothing but praise about them and c) when there IS a problem, ChrisF or someone else jumps on it as quickly as possible to fix it and typically doesn't rest until they do.

I'm NOT trolling, I'm making astute observations. I've wanted to buy an OS4 system for years, but short of the SAMs (which are still overpriced in my eyes, for what I get and I'm entitled to MY opinion), not a single piece of kit for OS4 has pushed me to go, "Oh WoW! I've just GOTTA have that!"

That is NOT fair to the end consumer and it's actually poor business logic. As I said before, there's absolutely ZERO incentive to purchase an OS4 machine, unless you just have the money to burn and are a zealot.

[eliyahu]

The 440's are no longer produced and quite frankly for as underpowered as it is, 200$ should be the NEW, purchase price, not used.

I remember when the Efika first came out. I was REALLY tempted to buy one, 'cos it was 99$. I stopped short when people said they were having problems due to the limited ram, but that's a GOOD entry level price and you got a 30 minute time limit with MorphOS. You can even still by Efika's from Directron.

they are still produced, actually. acube just did another run a few months ago and they sold out quickly. if any were available (!) you could pick them up new, with warranty, for under $350. but... that doesn't include the OS license.

This is what completely baffles me about Hyperion and how over the years, I've gradually stopped being a "Red Camp" cheerleader. Please explain this logic to me, 'cos I really don't get it. I buy a SAM for 500$. Then, I have to get a hard drive, gfx card, case, power supply. I'll say I'm using an old dell keyboard and USB IR mouse I have ('cos I have spares.) I get all this for a total of 750$. After 2 or 3 weeks, I decide that OS4 isn't for me. Well, there's no 30 day warranty. I can't "return my product for a full refund", therefore I'm stuck with it. Even if I could return it, odds are, I'm stuck paying for shipping, which is just more money out of my pocket. Only I don't want it. So, my only option is to sell it on eBay or Amibay or via Craigslist. *BUT*, I have to sell it at a loss, 'cos regardless of the fact I only used it 2 or 3 weeks, it's still *USED* and there's always a risk when you buy used. This is Amigaland, remember?

Then, there's the subject of a warranty. While I am of the 100% opinion that Amigakit would honor this: "Hey. I bought [Name]'s SAM as he didn't want it anymore. I have his original receipt, all the boxes, manuals, etc., but it seems to not be working, yet it's still under the original warranty. Can I return it?"

However, my experiences with companies like SoftHut, VisionTek and Anti-Gravity made me skeptical with Amiga Businesses. In fact, the only reason I hold Amigakit in such high regard is a) I've seen how they package their shipments b) I've seen nothing but praise about them and c) when there IS a problem, ChrisF or someone else jumps on it as quickly as possible to fix it and typically doesn't rest until they do.

i can only say that i and others have had occasion to return hardware to either acube or amigakit, and the items were repaired or replaced. acube is/was selling SAM440ep-flex systems complete with graphics card, storage, DVD drive, etc., fully assembled for around $700USD. and with a two-year warranty. i believe they also allow the systems to be returned. but, yes, you would have to pay for return shipping.

I'm NOT trolling, I'm making astute observations. I've wanted to buy an OS4 system for years, but short of the SAMs (which are still overpriced in my eyes, for what I get and I'm entitled to MY opinion), not a single piece of kit for OS4 has pushed me to go, "Oh WoW! I've just GOTTA have that!"

That is NOT fair to the end consumer and it's actually poor business logic. As I said before, there's absolutely ZERO incentive to purchase an OS4 machine, unless you just have the money to burn and are a zealot.

i don't think you are trolling. i think you are an example of several people i have talked with since being an active 'next-gen' amigan. lots of people would love to try an AOS4-based computer, but the cost of entry is too high. as for things being 'overpriced,' that's in the eye of the beholder. i was very worried my SAM would be too underpowered for much of anything, but in reality it was much more performant than i expected. the X1000 did say 'gotta have it' to me, but i ended up spending the money on something else after waiting so long to get an order link.

the good news is that the systems that are coming should be both more performant and cheaper than what we have now. but, as always in amiga-land, we're waiting. if you were in the tri-state area, i'd drive over with one of my machines so you could check it out. but that's not really something people should have to do. the VNC idea mentioned earlier seems something they should offer on request for interested parties.

if you do go for it, i think you'll be pleased with your purchase. it's just a shame there isn't a way for you to try before you buy. i don't suppose i could tempt you into joining us at amiwest this fall? there are tons of next-gen and classic amigas on display, with lots of nice people to chat with, including some of the principal movers and shakers these days. just something to keep in the back of your mind.

-- eliyahu