Status report on AmigaOS 4.2 development

[mongo]

You did tell me there where things that AOS4.1 can't do that windows can do, which was another complaint of yours. Again, what are those things?

Are you serious?

[itix]

I dont think your buying volume is big enough to make difference.

Than it means buying a copy of MorphOS makes also no big difference?

If there were thousands of new customers every day then price of the hardware would skyrocket due to limited supply.

[commodorejohn]

John, you complaining about the price is just one thing though. You did tell me there where things that AOS4.1 can't do that windows can do, which was another complaint of yours. Again, what are those things?

What I said was that there are people dependent on specific Windows software who would not find it so easy to switch to OS4-native alternatives. But you know what, you want an example? Here: MusicLab RealLPC. It doesn't even run on PowerPC Macs, to say nothing of something like a SAM board, and good luck getting anything like usable performance out of it in emulation on a <=1GHz CPU - to say nothing of running additional VSTs alongside it. If I were a guitarist with an actual Les Paul, that'd be one thing - but I'm not. So if I want to use this plugin to add some sweet, sweet Gibson sounds to my music, there is simply no way I can do that on OS4.

[eliyahu]

@thread

i go on vacation and look what happens. :lol:

anyhoo this thread has gotten seriously derailed.  would anyone object if i moved some of the off-topic posts to a new thread?  i'd like to keep everyone's thoughts around, but the argument over the merits of this OS vs that OS should be continued elsewhere. that is, if we want to rehash the same arguments over again for the 3,597th time.

-- eliyahu

[Methuselas]

You did tell me there where things that AOS4.1 can't do that windows can do, which was another complaint of yours. Again, what are those things?

I was gonna leave this alone, but:


Maya, 3DStudio, Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, After Effects, Nuke, Toxik, Mari, Painter, Animation Studio Pro, Mudbox, ZBrush, Reason and those are just a few examples of applications I use on a daily basis.

So, tell me, why would *I* spend a grand or more on a computer that for all intents and purposes will only do two things for me: web browsing and playing legacy games. Even in that the web browsing is still below what I could do on a PC and any legacy games I wished to run, I could do faster and cheaper on a PC with WinUAE, not to mention, I have a fully working A500 sitting in my closet collecting dust, 'cos I just don't have the TIME to play "legacy games."

It's the laws of supply and demand. Sure there are people that are willing to spend that money on an OS4 system and that's great for them, but for someone, like myself, whom is RELIANT on the system they use for work, how is getting a machine that does nothing I need it to do, for the price of a machine that WILL, justifiable? A fully working machine at around 300$ is justifiable to many of us, 'cos that's the price of a decent motherboard and at minimum, quad-core processor.  That doesn't meet the demand.

It's why so many of us are pissing and moaning about the "netbook" they were bragging about 2 years ago, but never saw the light of day. I love the Amiga OS and wish I could use it on a daily basis, but it doesn't meet my needs or demands. It's just that simple and tell me, is that really fair to ME, as an Amiga user?

BTW, you're Alien Attack game rocks. I've been playing the sh!t out of it, for a few weeks now. Even got my fiancee playing it. Good work! :laugh1:

-M

[Methuselas]

@thread

i go on vacation and look what happens. :lol:

anyhoo this thread has gotten seriously derailed.  would anyone object if i moved some of the off-topic posts to a new thread?  i'd like to keep everyone's thoughts around, but the argument over the merits of this OS vs that OS should be continued elsewhere. that is, if we want to rehash the same arguments over again for the 3,597th time.

-- eliyahu

Didn't you know, Eliyahu? As a Mod, you're expected to be chained to your desktop with a neural interface directly tied to Amiga.org at all times. Why do you think we've been trying to find a way to get Karlos to ban himself, for years?

[utri007]

Quote:
Originally Posted by utri007  
aCube manufactures PPC bords for industrial purpose, if they could manufacture bords just for just for Amiga user, I would say that price would lower. Lots of useless thing could be removed and make boards more cheaper.

So I would say that it is possible to make a diffrence.


AOS4 compatibility? That's 1/4 of the price right there.

If you read specs of Sam Flex or any other Sam boards, you find out that there ar lots of weird features, wich doesn't have any use with average Amiga hobbyist.

Sam Flex :
•2 integrated Ethernet 10/100 ports
•Up to 4 serial ports
•2 I2C interfaces
•SPI interfaces
•64 pin for I/O General Purpose
•FPGA Lattice XP with 80 pin I/O expansion connector

Sam 460 is even more weird.

If ACube could make mobo just for Amiga hobbyists, it could be much cheaper.

So every buyer matters.

[Duce]

The list of things a OS4 or MOS rig cannot do that many people require out of a daily driver PC is too big to even start, lol.  They are hobby machines - if I tried to use my SAM or my MOS PPC Mac for my daily tasks I'd starve to death and be out of business within a week.

I love MOS and OS4, but if you are using one as a commodity PC replacement your requirements out of a PC are far, far less than many people.  Love them for what they are.

[wawrzon]

If you read specs of Sam Flex or any other Sam boards, you find out that there ar lots of weird features, wich doesn't have any use with average Amiga hobbyist.

Sam Flex :
•2 integrated Ethernet 10/100 ports
•Up to 4 serial ports
•2 I2C interfaces
•SPI interfaces
•64 pin for I/O General Purpose
•FPGA Lattice XP with 80 pin I/O expansion connector

Sam 460 is even more weird.

If ACube could make mobo just for Amiga hobbyists, it could be much cheaper.

i agree, with the whole post, only the actually sane conclusion looks flawed in context of what actually happens. this, because there is apparently a motherboard made entirely for amiga hobbyists and not only is it much more expensive, but also contains a number of unsupported or not necessary devices, most prominently the x-mos part. that aside, it doesnt seem that the raw computing power scales along the price here, so sorry, i dont trust that we can do anything about the price/performance factor, whether we find ways of support or not.

[Fats]

@thread
anyhoo this thread has gotten seriously derailed.  would anyone object if i moved some of the off-topic posts to a new thread?

I am for anything that can in the future prevent OS4 threads being hijacked.
Staf.

[AmigaClassicRule]

I was gonna leave this alone, but:


Maya, 3DStudio, Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, After Effects, Nuke, Toxik, Mari, Painter, Animation Studio Pro, Mudbox, ZBrush, Reason and those are just a few examples of applications I use on a daily basis.

So, tell me, why would *I* spend a grand or more on a computer that for all intents and purposes will only do two things for me: web browsing and playing legacy games. Even in that the web browsing is still below what I could do on a PC and any legacy games I wished to run, I could do faster and cheaper on a PC with WinUAE, not to mention, I have a fully working A500 sitting in my closet collecting dust, 'cos I just don't have the TIME to play "legacy games."

It's the laws of supply and demand. Sure there are people that are willing to spend that money on an OS4 system and that's great for them, but for someone, like myself, whom is RELIANT on the system they use for work, how is getting a machine that does nothing I need it to do, for the price of a machine that WILL, justifiable? A fully working machine at around 300$ is justifiable to many of us, 'cos that's the price of a decent motherboard and at minimum, quad-core processor.  That doesn't meet the demand.

It's why so many of us are pissing and moaning about the "netbook" they were bragging about 2 years ago, but never saw the light of day. I love the Amiga OS and wish I could use it on a daily basis, but it doesn't meet my needs or demands. It's just that simple and tell me, is that really fair to ME, as an Amiga user?

BTW, you're Alien Attack game rocks. I've been playing the sh!t out of it, for a few weeks now. Even got my fiancee playing it. Good work! :laugh1:

-M

My turn! Things I use in Windows and gives me so much pleasure that I cannot find in AmigaOS 4.? OK:

• Unity3D
• UDK
• Game Maker 8.1
• Engine001
• Visual Studio
• Movie editing programs that allow me to convert videos to run on classic Amiga
• MMORPG games (every single MMORPG game in the market and new ones coming out)
• Sweet up to date current games and I mean thousands of games here to be listed plus old games

Pretty much if the above list is available in AmigaOS 4.1 then we can talk.

[WeiXing3D]

Let's be honest....some of the forum members here, including myself, have spent thousands of dollars or Euros, and in many cases a lot more than the cost of a PPC based Amiga OS computer, just to enable our classic hardware to do still a fraction of what one of these machines can do, right out of the box.

We all now that they do not compare to modern computers ( own quite a few of those too), but after all, we all share something in common...we like retro-computing and are willing to spend money and time tinkering with them regardless of the origin of our hardware.

In case you haven't heard the news, Commodore-Amiga went out of business more than 20 years ago, and whatever we do today to recreate the experience, is entirely up to us...it's our own money!

[yssing]

I was gonna leave this alone, but:
Maya, 3DStudio, Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, After Effects, Nuke, Toxik, Mari, Painter, Animation Studio Pro, Mudbox, ZBrush, Reason and those are just a few examples of applications I use on a daily basis.
-M

I don't know half of those programs, but we do have gimp, I only use gimp at work any ways. Blender for 3D.
We could use inkScape on AOS4.x I prefer that over Illustrator

It's why so many of us are pissing and moaning about the "netbook" they were bragging about 2 years ago, but never saw the light of day. I love the Amiga OS and wish I could use it on a daily basis, but it doesn't meet my needs or demands. It's just that simple and tell me, is that really fair to ME, as an Amiga user?
-M

I would like the netbook as well, but for now I can use my SAM

And thanks for your kind words on Alien Air Attack, I was not the only one involved in it, Krister made the great music and Kevin made most of the graphics, the good looking any way.

[TheBilgeRat]

Eclipse, Git, Subversion, Steam, Netbeans, Java, Python, Chrome, Flash, Silverlight, Ruby...

[utri007]

I'm perfectly happy with my 800mhz Sam, it much more than 060, Workbench is fast, wb surfing is flawless, I can watch my favorite tv series with it etc. So CPU power is more than OK for me.

Flex would be at least 200€ cheaper without those "industrial" features. Talking about x1000 is different thing, it designed with different way, to offer max CPU power for Amiga and money is not a issue.

ACube might make Amiga only mobo, if there would be enough demand to it. I would say that it is possible to make and sell Flex level mobo about 100€, IF it has only needed features. Just 3x PCI, 2-4 USB, and CPU.

ACube is not exactly BIG player in computer market, so several thousands mobos to sell would be enough to desing and manufacture Amiga only mobo, to get price low as 100€ it would need manufacture in China and at least 10 000 mobos.

[AmigaClassicRule]

I'm perfectly happy with my 800mhz Sam, it much more than 060, Workbench is fast, wb surfing is flawless, I can watch my favorite tv series with it etc. So CPU power is more than OK for me.

Flex would be at least 200€ cheaper without those "industrial" features. Talking about x1000 is different thing, it designed with different way, to offer max CPU power for Amiga and money is not a issue.

ACube might make Amiga only mobo, if there would be enough demand to it. I would say that it is possible to make and sell Flex level mobo about 100€, IF it has only needed features. Just 3x PCI, 2-4 USB, and CPU.

I am thinking honestly here that the physical manufacturing of hardware and selling them for even cheap price is not the issue here. It is the software that makes the computer run, when we lack in this area the demand for the hardware decreases unfathomably rendering the prices to go up, manufacturing hardware to be slow and hard to find and it end up nothing more than a hobby for the rich or the insane.

Why is it worth it for me to spend 600 bucks in a classic Amiga than say 800 bucks in a modern AmigaOS 4.x? Well because it is fun squeezing and making the classic Amiga do things it was not intended to do...but also because it's software library exceed that of OS 4.x and it is native and for it! AmigaOS 4.x software library are imports that can be done with Linux for free!


To me..the only time I think it is worth getting an overprice, super expensive, no longer used PPC hardware to run AmigaOS 4.x when AmigaOS 4.x have equivalent amount of software library as Linux and should we say almost 98% the same. Then to me I would rather own an AmigaOS 4.x and then perhaps..other companies may consider AmigaOS 4.x as a suitable business OS due to the user friendliness, lack of viruses, blah, blah that even Ubunutu unfortunately still lacks on.