GBS-8220 Why not work Ami vga modes

[AmmoJammo]

So if wasn't poo you'd only hold the button for 1 second?  

if it wasn't poo, you wouldn't have to ask why it doesn't work

[gertsy]

if it wasn't poo, you wouldn't have to ask why it doesn't work

I was making a toilet flush joke.  
Well I was looking at these.  Probably still good for an A500 though.

[desiv]

I know that going from pal, to ntsc, the gbs simply reports "no signal" until you do this...

That's weird, I run PAL and NTSC modes on my GBS all the time.
I only ever had to use that button on the initial setup.

I did try using that button with some of VGA style modes yesterday and it didn't do anything.

It is weird tho, if it's not a passthru, then why don't the VGA modes work?
According to the specs in the manual, it should.
Then again, according to the specs in the manual, RGB 15khz shouldn't work.  ;-)

(And if standard 30ish khz doesn't passthru, then what is the point of the 15pin port???)

desiv

[ChaosLord]

I am very interested in the subject of flickerfixers because I have been coding interlaced Amiga games and business software since 1985.

In games video is great in this chinese GBS but in system is wrong

Just to be clear: I have seen many screenshots of GBS in action.

GBS video is never ever "clear".

It changes the colors around.
It changes the pixels around.
The way it samples the incoming video signal is a bit off so it always adds distortion.

It also draws waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much power from your RGB port.  Over 10x more than is legal.   You are liable to destroy your RGB port after a few years of this sort of abuse unless you wire up an external powersupply.

GBS force converts all 50hz PAL modes into 60hz which messes things up as its impossible to smoothly upscale 50hz to 60hz.


-----
You had a problem.  Your problem was the monitor manufacturer ripped you off with a monitor that could display 50hz pictures just fine but was rigged (sabotaged/vandalized) not to display 50hz video on purpose. :destroy:  This way they were knowingly selling you an obsolete product which you would then immediately need to buy a replacement for. :flame: This doubles the profits of the monitor industry.

The solution was to buy a proper monitor.

But instead you made your problem worse by adding a GBS which damages the video quality of every single Amiga gfx mode, even the ones that display on your silly obsolete monitor that they tricked you into buying.

So now you have 2 problems instead of just 1.

You can reduce your problems down to 0 by buying a normal (not ripoff) monitor from a normal (not ripoff) monitor manufacturer + a good flickerfixer.

I am not even sure u need a flickerfixer.  If you want to play PAL games the best way to do that is to simply play them on a 1084S.  It gives the absolute best picture quality for lores PAL games.

You only need a flickerfixer for Amiga gaming if you are going to play interlaced Amiga games such as Total Chaos AGA, which runs in HIRES PAL LACE (640x512x256).  The game does not flicker much at all (some ppl don't even realize it is in interlace) when playing the game in the normal way.  But if you turn on the Dungeonwars option then certain dungeons use walls that have perfectly straight horizontal high contrast flickery lines.   But if you get lucky and the dungeon is constructed of trees or giant snowballs or what have you, then you should not have a flicker problem.  Most of the game was created with antiflicker magic technology but after a while I got sick of doing that and said "let them buy flickerfixers"

If you decide that you will be playing interlaced games such as Mechforce ECS, TotalChaosAGA, Roboforce, SimCity 2000, A-Train, etc. etc. then you should get a good flickerfixer and a good monitor that is not racist against various Amiga gfx modes.  I am currently using a ViewSonic UltraBrite A90f+ multisync monitor that works with NTSC/PAL/etc. etc. Amiga gfx modes perfectly with my superduper internal flickerfixer.  There are many other monitors that work perfectly with flickerfixed PAL/NTSC/VGA/etc. such as Commodore 1950 Multisync, Commodore 1960 Mutisync, NEC Multisync 75 and many others.

Internal flickerfixers always provide a superior picture to external ones, assuming no bugs or manufacturing defects.

Internal flickerfixers do not have to digitize the incoming video signal.  They actually use the REAL digital original unmodified video signal and they have perfect timing information from the Amiga gfx chips.  So internal flickerfixers provide the correct colors and the correct pixels.  Its beautiful. :knuddel:

All the internal flickerfixers I ever used or read about all allow switching video modes instantly and properly without having to press any manual buttons.

External flickerfixers do not have perfect timing information.  They simply have some dumb pixel clock rate that they digitize the incoming signal at.  Since it is not the correct rate, some columns of pixels do not digitize correctly and you get a smeary image.

GBS was really made for old Nintendo and Sega consoles.  That target market does not care about quality. (If they did care about quality then they would be using Amigas)  

[k4lmp]

I am very interested in the subject of flickerfixers because I have been coding interlaced Amiga games and business software since 1985.



Just to be clear: I have seen many screenshots of GBS in action.

GBS video is never ever "clear".

It changes the colors around.
It changes the pixels around.
The way it samples the incoming video signal is a bit off so it always adds distortion.

It also draws waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much power from your RGB port.  Over 10x more than is legal.   You are liable to destroy your RGB port after a few years of this sort of abuse unless you wire up an external powersupply.

GBS force converts all 50hz PAL modes into 60hz which messes things up as its impossible to smoothly upscale 50hz to 60hz.


-----
You had a problem.  Your problem was the monitor manufacturer ripped you off with a monitor that could display 50hz pictures just fine but was rigged (sabotaged/vandalized) not to display 50hz video on purpose. :destroy:  This way they were knowingly selling you an obsolete product which you would then immediately need to buy a replacement for. :flame: This doubles the profits of the monitor industry.

The solution was to buy a proper monitor.

But instead you made your problem worse by adding a GBS which damages the video quality of every single Amiga gfx mode, even the ones that display on your silly obsolete monitor that they tricked you into buying.

So now you have 2 problems instead of just 1.

You can reduce your problems down to 0 by buying a normal (not ripoff) monitor from a normal (not ripoff) monitor manufacturer + a good flickerfixer.

I am not even sure u need a flickerfixer.  If you want to play PAL games the best way to do that is to simply play them on a 1084S.  It gives the absolute best picture quality for lores PAL games.

You only need a flickerfixer for Amiga gaming if you are going to play interlaced Amiga games such as Total Chaos AGA, which runs in HIRES PAL LACE (640x512x256).  The game does not flicker much at all (some ppl don't even realize it is in interlace) when playing the game in the normal way.  But if you turn on the Dungeonwars option then certain dungeons use walls that have perfectly straight horizontal high contrast flickery lines.   But if you get lucky and the dungeon is constructed of trees or giant snowballs or what have you, then you should not have a flicker problem.  Most of the game was created with antiflicker magic technology but after a while I got sick of doing that and said "let them buy flickerfixers"

If you decide that you will be playing interlaced games such as Mechforce ECS, TotalChaosAGA, Roboforce, SimCity 2000, A-Train, etc. etc. then you should get a good flickerfixer and a good monitor that is not racist against various Amiga gfx modes.  I am currently using a ViewSonic UltraBrite A90f+ multisync monitor that works with NTSC/PAL/etc. etc. Amiga gfx modes perfectly with my superduper internal flickerfixer.  There are many other monitors that work perfectly with flickerfixed PAL/NTSC/VGA/etc. such as Commodore 1950 Multisync, Commodore 1960 Mutisync, NEC Multisync 75 and many others.

Internal flickerfixers always provide a superior picture to external ones, assuming no bugs or manufacturing defects.

Internal flickerfixers do not have to digitize the incoming video signal.  They actually use the REAL digital original unmodified video signal and they have perfect timing information from the Amiga gfx chips.  So internal flickerfixers provide the correct colors and the correct pixels.  Its beautiful. :knuddel:

All the internal flickerfixers I ever used or read about all allow switching video modes instantly and properly without having to press any manual buttons.

External flickerfixers do not have perfect timing information.  They simply have some dumb pixel clock rate that they digitize the incoming signal at.  Since it is not the correct rate, some columns of pixels do not digitize correctly and you get a smeary image.

GBS was really made for old Nintendo and Sega consoles.  That target market does not care about quality. (If they did care about quality then they would be using Amigas)  

I have an Indy ECS, and several GBS 8200s, and use VGA monitors on all of my Amigas.  For $30, IMHO, the GBS is hard to beat.  It looks just as good on my LCD and CRT monitors as the Indy ECS.  The only thing I have seen is a little distortion around a moving mouse.  Other than that, I've played games that look fine, but I am not a big gamer.

[Ral-Clan]

Is there a version of the GBS-8220 that accepts NTSC colour composite input and outputs to a VGA monitor?

Does it introduce any latency when playing video games?

[desiv]

GBS video is never ever "clear".
(long justifiable rant about GBS follows..)

There's a reason that the GBS is $30 and we all (generally) know it...
It's not anywhere near the best device of it's type.  It's not perfect.

But it is affordable (read: cheap) and acceptable (for lots of people).

It also draws waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much power from your RGB port.  Over 10x more than is legal.   You are liable to destroy your RGB port after a few years of this sort of abuse unless you wire up an external powersupply.

Yes!  I use an external power supply and everyone using one (IMHO) should do that...

GBS force converts all 50hz PAL modes into 60hz which messes things up as its impossible to smoothly upscale 50hz to 60hz.

Again, it's not perfect, but I enjoy playing PAL games on my 1200 with the GBS.
Would I enjoy them more if I spent more money on a much nicer product..
I imagine so..  ;-)
But it in no way ruins the experience for me.

You had a problem.

Yep...

Your problem was the monitor manufacturer ripped you off with a monitor that could display 50hz pictures just fine but was rigged (sabotaged/vandalized) not to display 50hz video on purpose.

er..  kind of I suppose.. but not really...
I'd say my problem is that I (for space reasons) needed to display my Amiga on my currentl LCD monitor.

The solution was to buy a proper monitor.

er..  That's one possible solution, but one that involves spending more money than other solutions..

But instead you made your problem worse by adding a GBS which damages the video quality of every single Amiga gfx mode, even the ones that display on your silly obsolete monitor that they tricked you into buying.

er.. No one "tricked me into buying my monitor."  It was inexpensive and I knew it at the time.  I didn't expect it (at the time) to work with PAL modes, so it's not anyone's fault that it doesn't do that...

You can reduce your problems down to 0 by buying a normal (not ripoff) monitor from a normal (not ripoff) monitor manufacturer + a good flickerfixer.

i.e.  You can pay a LOT of money for a really nice solution.
Yes, that's an option..

I am not even sure u need a flickerfixer.  If you want to play PAL games the best way to do that is to simply play them on a 1084S.  It gives the absolute best picture quality for lores PAL games.

I agree.  I love my 1084s.  But desk space wise, I needed another solution.  And cost wise, it needed to be a"not top of the line" solution  ;-)

GBS was really made for old Nintendo and Sega consoles.  That target market does not care about quality. (If they did care about quality then they would be using Amigas)  

Well, I wouldn't say we (as a portion of that audience) don't care about quality, but we might have some other (financial primarily) considerations as well.. ;-)
I'm glad the GBS is there as an option.  I think it is a decent solution for a group of people who are looking for an answer with a set budget...
Doesn't mean that I won't decide to spend more and get a better product in the future and be happier.  
But the fact that I can be happier later doesn't mean I'm not happy now. ;-)

desiv

[desiv]

Is there a version of the GBS-8220 that accepts NTSC colour composite input and outputs to a VGA monitor?

You don't have to worry about NTSC/PAL color issues when you use RGB.
So, it works.
There are some issues around PAL/NTSC timing.  Some people don't like the resampled solutions.  I don't mind the GBS at all....
(That means I don't notice any issues.  I play PAL games on my NTSC A1200 all the time..)

Does it introduce any latency when playing video games?

I'd guess that there has to be some, but not that I've noticed.

desiv

[ChaosLord]

@Desiv

 :idea:  You can solve your space problem and your money problem all at the same time (depending on make, model and mileage) by just selling your wife.  

[desiv]

:idea:  You can solve your space problem and your money problem all at the same time (depending on make, model and mileage) by just selling your wife.  

I'm not going to react.....

..

...as my wife is very internet savvy..  :sealed::sealed:  
:lol:

desiv

[Ral-Clan]

You don't have to worry about NTSC/PAL color issues when you use RGB.
So, it works.

I was actually thinking of using the device with a ColecoVision modified to have composite out, so I was wondering about that.

[AmigaClassicRule]

Quote:
                                                                      Originally Posted by ChaosLord                                    
                 You can reduce your problems down to 0  by buying a normal (not ripoff) monitor from a normal (not ripoff)  monitor manufacturer + a good flickerfixer.
                                 
 
i.e.  You can pay a LOT of money for a really nice solution.
Yes, that's an option..

By the way I cracked falling on the ground and laughing so hard when I read your replies to ChaosLord, especially this one :roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:Keep up the good show

[desiv]

I was actually thinking of using the device with a ColecoVision modified to have composite out, so I was wondering about that.

The GBS device doesn't handle composite or s-video.
So that's probably not going to work.

There are several inexpensive composite - VGA adapters on e-bay.
This just isn't one of them.  ;-)

(I actually have one that is a composite or s-video to VGA adapter that works nicely for composite, but not for s-video (one of the colors is shifted 1 line lower in s-video and there is no adjustment).)

However, composite and s-video are probably/possibly going to have PAL/NTSC color issues depending on the adapter.  I didn't test mine for that.

desiv

[Marcin1982]

chaos lord gbs-8220 is really good best at all converter rgb vga to amiga pal games work excellence in my EIZO 1701 but my question is why this converter is not passtrough for amiga vga modes
maybe is hack for this problem  ,, sorry for my english !! is not perfect