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AuthorTopic: C64 Basic Upgrade  (Read 6600 times)

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Offline trekiej

C64 Basic Upgrade
« on: March 21, 2013, 01:19:11 AM »
Outside of a cartridge expansion is there a way to upgrade Commodore Basic on a C64.
I guess a disk with compiler would be better but how about a rom?
Amiga 2000 Forever :)
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Offline RobertB

Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2013, 03:28:50 AM »
I know of no BASIC extension that comes on plug-in ROM for the C64 (no space left on the original ROM for any enhancements).  Thus, all the BASIC extensions came on cartridge or on disk.  A nearly complete listing of the extensions is at

http://www.npsnet.com/danf/cbm/languages.html#BASIC-extenders

The list does not seem to include BASIC 4.0 which was in the Better Working Turbo Load 'N Save cartridge nor the BASIC 4.5 which was in RUN magazine issues 18-20.

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Offline CritAnime

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Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2013, 03:56:23 AM »
Would JiffyDOS not fall under this?

Offline LoadWB

Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2013, 05:04:05 AM »
What exactly do you want?  There were a whole mess of BASIC extensions available back in the day.  Some hid under ROM.  Most of them added new commands, one popular extension being a DOS wedge.  I remember one in particular published in COMPUTE! called BASIC 7 (or BASIC 6; the memory fails) which added a bunch of C128 BASIC-like commands and shortcuts, including programmable f-keys.
 

Offline fishy_fiz

Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2013, 05:26:39 AM »
Simon's BASIC was pretty popular, and also has a compiler. Noticably faster than the inbuilt basic v2.0, but also inherited a lot of v7.0.

As for function keys, theyre programmable even with even the inbuilt basic (they have ascii values)
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline Jiffy

Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2013, 08:10:07 AM »
Quote from: fishy_fiz;729911
Simon's BASIC was pretty popular, and also has a compiler. Noticably faster than the inbuilt basic v2.0, but also inherited a lot of v7.0.
Simon's BASIC was indeed pretty popular, but it was noticably slower than BASIC 2.0, not faster. An easy test for this would be a simple FOR...NEXT loop. Of course, graphics and such were faster as you needed much less code to obtain a certain result. Simon's BASIC commands were much more powerfull compared to the rather crude BASIC 2.0.

Apart from that, it could not have inherited anything from BASIC 7.0: Simon's BASIC is from 1983, BASIC 7.0 (the C128, that is) is from 1985. If anything, it would be the other way around.

Simon's BASIC was a way cool BASIC extension. Very impressive for its day.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 09:55:31 AM by Jiffy »
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Offline trip6

Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2013, 12:13:57 PM »
They used to sell Basic 8 for the C128 as a Rom chip that you could put into the C128 expansion rom socket or you could put it in your REU expansion socket. For plain old C64, there were carts that added commands and shortcuts to basic like Simon's Basic, Super Expander and S'more. Other than that there is no way to "upgrade" C64 basic. Why are you looking to upgrade it by the way?
 

Offline fishy_fiz

Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2013, 01:03:36 PM »
@Jiffy

Ah ok. My experiments with Simon's BASIC were mostly writing games, which is probably why it was faster for me (ie. pretty grahpics heavy). As for inheriting stuff from BASIC v7.0 I guess Id misinterpreted the description, "heavily enhanced and featuring many features from BASIC 7.0" (or something to that effect) from back when I played with it some time around 2000.

Regardless it was fun. Cant really recall how we came up with the idea, but me and a friend decided to try to make a monkey island clone in basic for the c64, and simon's basic sounded interesting so we gave it a go. :)
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline Darrin

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Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2013, 01:25:10 PM »
I still use Simons BASIC on my C64.  I remember writing my O Level computer science project on it and having to lug my C64 and floppy drive into school in order to get graded.
A2000, A3000, 2 x A1200T, A1200, A4000Tower & Mediator, CD32, VIC-20, C64, C128, C128D, PET 8032, Minimig & ARM, C-One, FPGA Arcade... and AmigaOne X1000.
 

Offline nicholas

Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2013, 01:34:03 PM »
Quote from: Darrin;729935
I still use Simons BASIC on my C64.  I remember writing my O Level computer science project on it and having to lug my C64 and floppy drive into school in order to get graded.


Ah the halcyon days before they replaced O'level CS with GCSE IT.

I unfortunately had to do the latter in the early 90's and was much peeved that the entire two year course consisted of typing letters in MS Works on MSDOS4.01 286 machines. :(
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline hishamk

Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2013, 01:56:38 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;729937
Ah the halcyon days before they replaced O'level CS with GCSE IT.

I unfortunately had to do the latter in the early 90's and was much peeved that the entire two year course consisted of typing letters in MS Works on MSDOS4.01 286 machines. :(

I was actually shocked and sort of saddened to hear that UK schools no longer have a proper CS track/module.

Who was the genius behind swapping learning how to code for learning how to use MS Office? That guy definitely needs a blue plate on his house that reads "Here lived the guy that turned a nation of David Brabens into a nation of Mavis Beacons and Clippies."
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Offline nicholas

Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2013, 02:30:52 PM »
Quote from: hishamk;729938
I was actually shocked and sort of saddened to hear that UK schools no longer have a proper CS track/module.

Who was the genius behind swapping learning how to code for learning how to use MS Office? That guy definitely needs a blue plate on his house that reads "Here lived the guy that turned a nation of David Brabens into a nation of Mavis Beacons and Clippies."


The IT teacher in my school hated me and my friend because we could code and he couldn't. He actively discouraged us from teaching ourselves to code.

He is still there at the school 20 years later apparently.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2013, 02:34:37 PM »
The developer of Simon's Basic has posted some comments about his time developing it here at this link.

http://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31356

He was just 16yrs old at the time!
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline Darrin

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Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2013, 02:44:11 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;729944
The IT teacher in my school hated me and my friend because we could code and he couldn't. He actively discouraged us from teaching ourselves to code.

He is still there at the school 20 years later apparently.


Damn, it really bugs me to find out that computer classes have been dumbed down to that sort of level.  Computer Science was about programming and hardware in my day.  If you wanted to know about Excel and Word then you had to sit in the typing classes with the girls!

One thing that did upset us computer geeks was when they replaced our two Research Machines 380Z machines with 3 brand new BBC Model B computers (for 25 of us to use)... and replaced the 15 manual typewriters in the typing class with 15 BBC Model B computers!

I think my worst memory was having to flowchart my A Level project.  I know the flowchart was worth 5% of the exam total, but I'm sure as hell certain that nobody waded through my sheets of paper to see if it was correct.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 02:47:04 PM by Darrin »
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Offline nicholas

Re: C64 Basic Upgrade
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2013, 04:37:28 PM »
Quote from: Darrin;729948
Damn, it really bugs me to find out that computer classes have been dumbed down to that sort of level.  Computer Science was about programming and hardware in my day.  If you wanted to know about Excel and Word then you had to sit in the typing classes with the girls!

One thing that did upset us computer geeks was when they replaced our two Research Machines 380Z machines with 3 brand new BBC Model B computers (for 25 of us to use)... and replaced the 15 manual typewriters in the typing class with 15 BBC Model B computers!

I think my worst memory was having to flowchart my A Level project.  I know the flowchart was worth 5% of the exam total, but I'm sure as hell certain that nobody waded through my sheets of paper to see if it was correct.

I remember the 380Z at primary school fondly. They used to drag it into the classroom on a big trolley twice a week.

The thing looked like a tank! :)

The thing that pissed me off the most is that the kids in the year above me were the last year that did CS. I spent many an hour in the maths lab during lunch playing around with their Model B's and a couple of Masters.  They even had an old PET in there too.

I spent even more time in the music suite when they installed the STe and the A500 though. :)
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini