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Offline Vlabguy1Topic starter

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Firefox OS
« on: February 25, 2013, 01:23:11 AM »
Really??.. I so want Amiga OS on a phone( mobile device).. Grrrr..

Rich
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2013, 01:35:27 AM »
I suppose anything that can help break up the Apple/Google hegemony is good, but the whole idea of a browser-based OS makes me want to retch.
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Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2013, 01:36:36 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;727464
I suppose anything that can help break up the Apple/Google hegemony is good, but the whole idea of a browser-based OS makes me want to retch.


Yes!

Sounds like a security nightmare anyways.  What would this crap be coded in?  Ruby?  Javascript?   PHP?!

baaarrrrfff.
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2013, 02:46:13 AM »
Javascript, from what I read. That alone should be enough to send any sane person running screaming for the hills.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
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Offline persia

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Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2013, 05:10:13 AM »
Given Firefox's drop from a dominant browser to third place, perhaps they should concentrate on the browser business and not worry so much about mobile phones....
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What we\'re witnessing is the sad, lonely crowing of that last, doomed cock.
 

Offline bbond007

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Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2013, 06:23:43 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;727464
I suppose anything that can help break up the Apple/Google hegemony is good, but the whole idea of a browser-based OS makes me want to retch.


yeah, Apple tried that with iOS 1.0 on the first iPhone.

No native apps... must use HTML/JS

welcome to 2007
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2013, 06:46:32 AM »
I don't even get what the point is. You're not gaining cross-platform compatibility because the only other browser-based OSes use their own frameworks for anything above the JS/HTML5 base level anyway, and nobody is going to run cell-phone apps on a PC because that would be stupid. You're not creating a good development environment because JS is a crap language for serious application development unless you bolt monstrously huge frameworks to it and HTML was never intended for applications to begin with. And you're sure as hell not gaining anything efficiency-wise. And at a lower level it's just another Linux. Literally the only thing it's got going for it is name recognition - which, as persia points out, Firefox has been torpedoing anyway, with this ridiculous version-of-the-month club and barely-to-not-at-all-contained memory bloat...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
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"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2013, 11:32:41 AM »
Quote from: persia;727473
Given Firefox's drop from a dominant browser to third place, perhaps they should concentrate on the browser business and not worry so much about mobile phones....


Who knows what the dominant browser is.  Google's googolplex prefetch counting makes that an impossible call these days.

IMO the more OSes the better. Viva la difference.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 11:47:05 AM by gertsy »
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2013, 01:28:52 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;727484
I don't even get what the point is. You're not gaining cross-platform compatibility because the only other browser-based OSes use their own frameworks for anything above the JS/HTML5 base level anyway, and nobody is going to run cell-phone apps on a PC because that would be stupid. You're not creating a good development environment because JS is a crap language for serious application development unless you bolt monstrously huge frameworks to it and HTML was never intended for applications to begin with. And you're sure as hell not gaining anything efficiency-wise. And at a lower level it's just another Linux. Literally the only thing it's got going for it is name recognition - which, as persia points out, Firefox has been torpedoing anyway, with this ridiculous version-of-the-month club and barely-to-not-at-all-contained memory bloat...
Fee free to list all the "crap" points of JavaScript and make sure you include everything bad about html5 while you are at it.

Offline psxphill

Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2013, 01:34:18 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;727510
Fee free to list all the "crap" points of JavaScript and make sure you include everything bad about html5 while you are at it.

I don't think you need to attack it, they're doing a good enough job of messing it up by themselves.
 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2013/02/25/despite-massive-support-from-telco-industry-mozilla-firefox-os-needs-improvement/
 
However I'll patiently wait to see what they come up with. I quite like android, but I'm not blinkered to something else coming along.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2013, 01:59:22 PM »
Quote from: psxphill;727511
I don't think you need to attack it, they're doing a good enough job of messing it up by themselves.
 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2013/02/25/despite-massive-support-from-telco-industry-mozilla-firefox-os-needs-improvement/
 
However I'll patiently wait to see what they come up with. I quite like android, but I'm not blinkered to something else coming along.
I have no real opinion regarding FirefoxOS... It just seems to me to be the most logical progression of technology, that's fine with me. At the moments he most used platform in my household is iOS, but that will change as ARM CPU's get more powerful, and use less electricity, and the web browser will be the platform... With html5 as the "Hardware Abstraction Layer" and event driven JavaScript the common client language...

Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2013, 04:13:55 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;727510
Fee free to list all the "crap" points of JavaScript and make sure you include everything bad about html5 while you are at it.


[youtube]
kXEgk1Hdze0
[/youtube]
 

Offline TheBilgeRat

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Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2013, 04:16:59 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;727510
Fee free to list all the "crap" points of JavaScript and make sure you include everything bad about html5 while you are at it.

:D


[youtube]kXEgk1Hdze0[/youtube]
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 05:53:10 PM by TheBilgeRat »
 

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2013, 07:18:16 PM »
Quote from: bloodline;727510
Fee free to list all the "crap" points of JavaScript and make sure you include everything bad about html5 while you are at it.
Well, first let me point out that I said Javascript (and HTML5) are crap for application development. As tools for enhancing webpages, they're a bit janky but ultimately usable (well, JS is, HTML5 still sucks,) but people keep trying to push them outside the environment for which they were intended.

That said, let's rip into this bitch. Anybody who thinks that dynamic typing is a good idea for large-scale development is insane. It's object-oriented but does not feature classes, which A. means you have to do all your inheritance by cloning and altering existing objects like some mad geneticist, and B. also fits into the "howling chaos of type ambiguity" model seen in JS in general. Objects in JS overall look like a terrible kludge to add object-oriented programming to a procedural language that someone did when OOP was the trendy new hotness in programming but didn't really care about the end result. All scripts share a global namespace. Variables are global unless otherwise specified. const is only implemented in certain browsers. And then there's the implementation madness seen in TheBilgeRat's video...

As for HTML5, it sucks because it's an attempt to turn something that was never, ever meant for application development into an application-development framework. HTML was never intended for this. Standards zealots spent the entire '90s screaming at people about how HTML was supposed to be for organizing information, not doing layout or apps. It wasn't meant for layout, it wasn't meant for UI, it was meant for creating documents that link to other documents. And on top of all that, it's manifestly slower than Flash, which has been accomplishing the exact same things HTML5 tries to do since the mid-'90s. HTML5 is not a good solution for application UI because it's a hack on top of an entirely different thing. It's also not a good solution for application UI because it means having to drag in an entire webpage parsing and rendering engine just to get buttons on a damn form, so everything runs as slowly as the web browser does. It's just dumb.

Quote from: bloodline;727512
I have no real opinion regarding FirefoxOS... It  just seems to me to be the most logical progression of technology,  that's fine with me.
How is it logical? They're kludging a set of tools intended for one thing into being used for an entirely different thing. Just because I can play my piano by means of exceedingly careful hammer whacks doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Quote
At the moments he most used platform in my  household is iOS, but that will change as ARM CPU's get more powerful,  and use less electricity, and the web browser will be the platform...  With html5 as the "Hardware Abstraction Layer" and event driven  JavaScript the common client language...
Oy, always with the "more horsepower makes stupid ideas not stupid anymore!" Yes, Firefox OS is slower than iOS now, but just wait until ARM CPUs get faster! Then it'll be...still slower than iOS, because iOS will be using the exact same faster ARM CPUs! And the web browser will be the platform, just like it was going to be in 1995. Yeah, I've got news for you: the web browser will take over as a dominant platform when it's as fast as native applications and behaves and renders consistently on all browsers. Which will be never.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 07:22:57 PM by commodorejohn »
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"\'Legacy code\' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling." - Bjarne Stroustrup
 

Offline kedawa

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Re: Firefox OS
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2013, 09:56:10 PM »
Actually, web apps running on firefoxOS can supposedly do things just as fast as iOS/Android native apps, and on much cheaper hardware.
Whether they actually deliver on that is another matter, but this isn't an OS for high end smart phones.