Help optimizing an A500.

[Ral-Clan]

Hi,

So as I've mentioned I've been setting up an A500 with WB3.1, ECS chipset, hard drive.

Just wondering if there are any tweaks I can do to the basic WB3.1 to get the most out of the 68000 processor.  I.e. are there any faster datatypes or libraries that are recommended? I'm also going to install Fblit.

I don't want to go crazy customizing the Workbench - I like just the basic 4-colour stock icon workbench for speed.  But if there are any easy patches or tweaks to make the machine the best it can be I'd be interested in hearing from them.

I've seen this improved Mathtrans.library (http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/tmathtrans) but I'm not sure if it will make a difference with a 680000 - the description doesn't say.

PS: Is this 68010 okay for an Amiga?  It has the P10 at the end which I am wondering about --- there's another on eBay that has a P12 on the end.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1pcs-MC68010P10-MC68010-16-32-Bit-Virtual-Memory-Microprocessor-/170845532651?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c72ff1eb

[mrknight]

I've been considering changing to a 68010 for my A500 as well. This is what I have found out in my research (IIRC):

The 68010 is pin compatible with 68000 so it's only to swap.
MOVE from SR is not allowed on 68010 since it is a protected/supervisor instruction, which is it not on 68k. I do not know how much of an issue this is. Some people say it doesn't matter, some say it might cause problems.
The P number on the IC is the maximum clock frequency it can run at. So P10 it 10MHz and P12 is 12MHz and so on. The A500 CPU is clocked at 7.XXXMHZ so go for the P10 if it's cheaper.
In general there will be a performance increase of about 5-10% with a 010 compared to a 68k at the same clock frequency.

This is what I have understood my my research regarding 68010. I haven't changed the CPU myself (maybe I will). If this information is not correct, can someone please correct me?

[k4lmp]

You are correct about the PXX being the highest clock frequency.  So, if the CPU you have is a 68000P10, it isn't a 68010, but a 68000 that will work up to 10mhz.  A 68010 will actually have 68010 as the CPU number, not 68000P10.  I have a 68010 in my A500+, but haven't really noticed any difference in speed.  As far as I know, you will be fine with a 68000P10.  If I am wrong, someone please correct me.

[Ral-Clan]

I did some research online (Google'd 68010P10 and AMIGA) and looks like some others use this designation of the 68010 in their Amigas.  So it sounds like it's totally compatible.

I ordered one at the above link just because, for $8.50US it's worth the 5% to 10% speed bonus.

I guess I'll let you know in three weeks (delivery time from China to N. America) how it goes.

I'd still like advice on faster math libs and other patches that are good for 68000 Amigas running WB3.1.  Thanks.

[k4lmp]

The 68010P10 works fine in my A500+.  I'm not sure if there are any mods you have to do on a regular A500 or not.  I THINK it is a direct replacement, even on the A500, but am not 100 percent sure.  I didn't have to do anything on my + except change the CPU.  As far as speed, like you, I read 5 to 10 percent, but I can't verify that, as even SysInfo 4 shows exactly the same as with the 68000.  They both are running at 7mhz, unless you modify the clocking somehow.  If you want to see noticeable speed differences, make sure you have 8mb of fast ram.  Fast ram is easily expandable on the A500 with sidecars, or with Kipper's board, and you will see a difference.  You didn't say how much fast ram you have, so I am unsure, you may already have it maxed out.  Good luck, and enjoy the mods, as that is what it is all about.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I have a nearly identical system to @k4lmp above.  I added the 68010 first (only cost about $5 but took a month to arrive from China), think SysInfo reported about a 10% speed improvement off that.  I then added 4MB through a GVP sidecar (also did the mod so it receives power directly through the side expansion slot), SysInfo reported about a 35% improvement with that, so all-in-all I'm rocking a 145% over stock speed system, tossed in an Indivision ECS, chip ram mod and a rom switcher and wahoo, retro gaming fun!  ;-)

Definitely recommend the 68010 for the price though, just wish there were more options for an A500 that didn't cost an arm-and-a-leg!  :-/

[Britelite]

I'm also going to install Fblit.

Unless you have an accelerator (030 or higher) with real fastmem, you will not benefit from installing Fblit. On the contrary, it might actually slow things down.

[ChaosLord]

Unless you have an accelerator (030 or higher) with real fastmem, you will not benefit from installing Fblit. On the contrary, it might actually slow things down.

I agree that it is silly to install Fblit on an A500 with 16-bit chipmem and a super slow motion 7.15909 Mhz 68010.  There is no real point.

The real benefit of Fblit (if u ignore all the bugs) is on 32-bit chipram systems with a 25Mhz 030 or higher.  Preferably an 040 or 060 since they have nice L1 caches.


If there is one util to patch up your oldsk00l A500 with that you want to make music and gfx with it is TLSFmem.  Its free on Aminet.  Its awesome.  Ur poor widdul 68010 really needs all the help it can get.

[Britelite]

The real benefit of Fblit (if u ignore all the bugs) is on 32-bit chipram systems with a 25Mhz 030 or higher.

I'm assuming you mean 32-bit fastmem, because it's the fastmem combined with a faster cpu that gives the real benefit.

[ChaosLord]

I'm assuming you mean 32-bit fastmem, because it's the fastmem combined with a faster cpu that gives the real benefit.

No, I really meant chipmem.  Fblit is twice as fast at blitting on 32-bit chipmem systems than on 16-bit chipmem systems because it uses the CPU to write to chipmem 32-bits at a time doesn't it?

At least my blitting routines write to chipmem 32-bits at a time.  I just assume Fblit does the same thing.

Yes the faster cpu helps.  Yes the fastmem helps.  But the bottleneck is always the super slooooooooooooooooooooooooow motion chipram.   A 500,000,000 Mhz 68060 will blit at the exact same speed as a 100Mhz 68060 because the chipram is the bottleneck and the chipram decides how fast blitting can possibly go.

This is why an Apollo 68060 card is better than a Blizzard 68060 card since the Apollo has better chipram access speeds.

Of course on his system since he is using the 2nd crummiest Amiga ever made, it doubly makes no sense to use Fblit because he has no 32-bit fastram and no 32-bit chipram.  And it triply makes no sense because he has a 32-bit CPU that runs 32-bit software but it lacks a 32-bit bus interface to memory.  So all 32-bit memory accesses are transparently broken down into 2 16-bit memory accessess.

[Britelite]

No, I really meant chipmem.  Fblit is twice as fast at blitting on 32-bit chipmem systems than on 16-bit chipmem systems because it uses the CPU to write to chipmem 32-bits at a time doesn't it?

Yes, but the speed comes from handling the graphics in fastmem and only blitting the result to chipmem. Otherwise you wouldn't benefit from a faster cpu, as the chipmem speed is the bottleneck

[Ral-Clan]

If you want to see noticeable speed differences, make sure you have 8mb of fast ram.  Fast ram is easily expandable on the A500 with sidecars, or with Kipper's board, and you will see a difference.  You didn't say how much fast ram you have, so I am unsure, you may already have it maxed out.  Good luck, and enjoy the mods, as that is what it is all about.

I have an ECS Amiga 500 with the following:

- MegaChip (1MB in A500 and 1MB on MegaChip gives 2MB Chip RAM)
- PowerXL internally mounted High-Density Floppy Drive
- Kickstart Switcher 1.3/3.1
- Supra 500XP Sidecar with 2GB Hard drive and 2MB Fast RAM installed (expandable to 8MB but I can't find 1M x 4 chips for sale).
- DCTV for full colour graphics work with supported software

So in total I have 2MB CHIP and 2MB FAST.

I used to have several much faster big box Amigas (RTG, AHI, 68040 and over 36MB RAM) but once I started using WinUAE for Amiga productivity software and experienced the speed (rendering, graphics) then it was hard to go back to even a 68040.

So now I just have this expanded Amiga 500 for my nostalgia fix, and use my "virtual" Amiga on WinUAE for the computationally intensive work.

I agree that it is silly to install Fblit on an A500 with 16-bit chipmem and a super slow motion 7.15909 Mhz 68010. There is no real point.

Thanks for the information on Fblit. As for the 68000/68010, yes, it's slow in comparison, but it's still quite capable.
After years of using super expanded and FAST big box Amigas, I started to think of the old 68000 Amigas (A500/A600) as toy or garbage machines, barely worth saving from the junkyard.

Now that I've gone back to using one - I'm actually impressed by what it CAN do!  It's a nice little 2D graphics, animation and Paula music machine that's capable of some creditable work!  Not useless at all (as long as one doesn't expect to run Lightwave on it or something)!  I am finding it a lot more fun and useful that I thought it would be.

I thought there were some optimized mathlibs out there for Amigas....but maybe these were for FPU equipped Amigas...

[psxphill]

Yes, but the speed comes from handling the graphics in fastmem and only blitting the result to chipmem. Otherwise you wouldn't benefit from a faster cpu, as the chipmem speed is the bottleneck

No, FBlit on an A3000/A1200/A4000 is faster than the blitter for some chipmem to chipmem copies. The blitter can't saturate the chipram bandwidth, while a really fast CPU can. I don't know what CPU it maxes out at. It also has the added benefit that icons etc can be stored in fast ram, which makes it even quicker. However things like full window dragging are sped up with FBlit and that doesn't touch fastram.

[matt3k]

I ran ExecPatch 4.9 back in the day and I remember is was very stable and made a noticeable difference.

[Britelite]

No, FBlit on an A3000/A1200/A4000 is faster than the blitter for some chipmem to chipmem copies. The blitter can't saturate the chipram bandwidth, while a really fast CPU can. I don't know what CPU it maxes out at. It also has the added benefit that icons etc can be stored in fast ram, which makes it even quicker. However things like full window dragging are sped up with FBlit and that doesn't touch fastram.

Of course, but the best speedups come when some of the data can be handled in fastram. As you said, chipmem maxes out at some point, but you can still benefit from the tasks that can be done elsewhere.