We need an iBrowse replacement for 68k!!!

[NovaCoder]

Hiya,

Well he worked on the SDL port so he's already a lot more qualified than most of us

Chris has also been very supportive so between them they should get there hopefully, I'll also try and help out if I can.

[wawrzon]

sdl ports are still if not the easiest then the less damanding when it comes to amiga standards. in this case reaction versus intuition, gadtools, boopsi, whatever applies. it would be great to get someone already familiar with the subject into the boat, in particular id welcome a mui replacement, likely to improve os4 port as well.

[magnetic]

wawrzon

You have just hit the problem of why many people, even compentant devlopers cant code for Amiga os.. There is so many hoops to jump through, compiler probs, IDE probs, tricky gui stuff to integrate, etc.. This is why there is only a handful of people left in the world that can really code amiga stuff.  And if you notice, most new software are ports.

[wawrzon]

well, not many people are willing or able to get through amiga internals anymore, or know them from the start, while handling gcc is one of the basics cross platform. sadly remaining 8k coders are most asm cracks. perhaps on the eab or a1k there might be someone able to help, counting one hand fingers. or a complete newcomer, though im not going to ask people of aros team..

[Fab]

If you want to have a proper HTML5 browser on Amiga, the only realistic way is to use WebKit.
It would be quite easy to port using Odyssey sources, even, but obviously, it would only make sense on UAE setups, considering memory and cpu requirements.

@magnetic

There is so many hoops to jump through, compiler probs, IDE probs, tricky gui stuff to integrate, etc

If by IDE you think about GUI editor, there's zero need for that in that kind of application development. In any serious development, you always leave this GUI editor sh*t behind, it's always a loss of time in the end (i have enough experience with XCode and Visual Studio to know how horrible they are).

As for compiler, GCC4 toolchain is enough, and editors like Golded or Scribble are good enough. Only issue might be libnix too outdated, but it can easily be completed.

And there's no tricky GUI stuff to integrate. Coding with MUI is really easy compared to similar stuff you have to do in other toolkits, actually.

[utri007]

Don't underestimate Netsurf, is fast and renders most pages correctly, wich is enough and realistic goal for real 68k amigas. Netsurf with OS 4 is very fast and responsive, like no any other browser, any other OS. Very confortable to use.

This is for real amigas and hardware hobbyists.

[Fab]

No proper javascript support discards it for what was asked before: feature-complete HTML5 browser.

As for its speed, disable JS in WebKit, and it also gets much faster, surprisingly... Though there are other issues with it on OS4, blitting speed seems slower than it should be.

[utri007]

It is not a realistic goal for 68k amigas to have Firefox/OWB etc. any effort to that would benefit only those who use emulators, so lets not talk about that.

Browsing internet is generally very pleasent with OS4, any browser is very usefull and fast when comparing Window XP / 7 etc.

Even Timberwolf is usefull, only problem is slow startup

[wawrzon]

jason has compiled aros owb for 68k, and i (and others) have tested it. it is almost usable, which means webkit browser might altogether be usable even on real amigas (060).
i expect fabs odyssey might be somewhat more responsive as this outdated version of aros owb.

now, firefox is of course out of the question, it doesnt even work properly on os4 machines let alone it would on any real 68k setup.

thanks to jason and deadwood i have been able to build aros68k toolchain, configure the odyssey project somewhat but making ive run immediately into some (define) problems, because the project wants to build whith pthreads. i couldnt find the cause, fab, you might recall ive asked you too.

i also agree completely the projects must be kept building from the shell, as it is intended to, in this case using cmake. using devcpp or any other editor might be helpful initially especially with porting small sdl games or so. but almost all open source projects are not meant to build that way, therefore especially with big and complex project you will eventually mess everything up, never knowing, what.

[magnetic]

Hey Fab informative post, thanks. So are you saying that ordinary coders could get to work right away on programming for amiga os? I have a friend who has learned C and Perl and Lua and digs my amigas and Pegasos. I was inquiring about programming for Amiga and how to get started.. like what books/guides etc. Also is there a lot of notation in Amiga geared code so he would be able to see what was going on? Can ASM be cross compiled?

Anyway, I would really like to see some sort of bounty for Fab, wawrzon, kas1e, and the others so that we could have a platform wide current "ODYSSEY" Browser. Now that would be a True ODYSEEY 2020 Movie. Is this possible?

[wawrzon]

im not taking any bounties here. im just trying to help, practically everybody else here has more guts then me.

[Fab]

jason has compiled aros owb for 68k, and i (and others) have tested it. it is almost usable, which means webkit browser might altogether be usable even on real amigas (060).
i expect fabs odyssey might be somewhat more responsive as this outdated version of aros owb.

Considering AROS OWB didn't have blitter support at all, it could only be faster, and not a little. I still think it would be rather slow on 060.

thanks to jason and deadwood i have been able to build aros68k toolchain, configure the odyssey project somewhat but making ive run immediately into some (define) problems, because the project wants to build whith pthreads. i couldnt find the cause, fab, you might recall ive asked you too.

Well, you just need to set the thread backend you use when invoking cmake, if you didn't already.
That's USE_THREADS=MORPHOS.
So for instance
cd cross-build
cmake -DCMAKE_CROSSCOMPILING=ON -DCMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE=../morphos.cmake  -DUSE_IMAGEDECODER=GENERIC -DUSE_THREADS=MORPHOS ..  etc...

[wawrzon]

Considering AROS OWB didn't have blitter support at all, it could only be faster, and not a little.

that exactly was the problem, it was blitting very slowly, scrolling slowly and the like..

I still think it would be rather slow on 060.

on css heavy sites, yes.. bbc has loaded few minutes, about two afair and of course without java script. but it rendered correctly with datatypes. but a1k frontpage was there almost in an iinstant, and one has to consider arostcp stack is still very laggy..

now what concerns the build i have a script here where morphos is clearly defined for paths:

Code: [Select]

cmake \
    -DCMAKE_CROSSCOMPILING=ON \
    -DCMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE=../cmake/aros.cmake \
    -DCMAKE_MODULE_PATH=../cmake \
    -DUSE_GRAPHICS="MORPHOS" \
    -DUSE_FONTS="FREETYPE" \
    -DUSE_TIMER="MORPHOS" \
    -DUSE_I18N:STRING=ICU \
    -DBUILD_SHARED_LIBS="NO" \
    -DUSE_THREADS="MORPHOS" \
    -DWITH_OWB_CONFIG_DIR="PROGDIR:owb.conf" \
    -DICU_LIBRARY="-licui18n -licuuc -licudata" \
    -DICU_INCLUDE="$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/include" \
-DPNG12_LIBRARIES=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/lib/libpng.a \
-DPNG12_INCLUDE_DIRS=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/include/ \
-DFREETYPE_LIBRARIES=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/lib/libfreetype2.a \
-DFREETYPE_INCLUDE_DIRS=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/include \
-DFONTCONFIG_LIBRARIES=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/lib/libfontconfig.a \
-DFONTCONFIG_INCLUDE_DIRS=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/include \
-DJPEG_LIBRARY=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/lib/libjpeg.a \
-DJPEG_INCLUDE_DIR=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/include/ \
-DCURL_LIBRARIES="$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/lib/libcurl.a;$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/lib/libiconv.a;$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/lib/libz.a;$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/lib/libssl.a;$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/lib/libcrypto.a;" \
-DCURL_INCLUDE_DIRS=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/include/ \
-DOWB_BASE_DEPS_LIBRARIES=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/lib/libxml2.a \
-DOWB_BASE_DEPS_INCLUDE_DIRS=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/include/libxml2 \
-DSQLITE3_INCLUDE_DIRS=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/include/ \
-DSQLITE3_LIBRARIES=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/lib/libsqlite3.a \
-DLIBXSLT_LIBRARIES=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/lib/libxslt.a \
-DLIBXSLT_INCLUDE_DIRS=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/include/ \
-DCAIRO_LIBRARY=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/lib/libcairo.a \
-DCAIRO_INCLUDE_DIR=$AROS_DEVELOPMENT/include/ \
    -DENABLE_ACCESSIBILITY:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_BLOB:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_DATALIST:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_DOM_STORAGE:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_EVENTSOURCE:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_FILE_SYSTEM:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_FILTERS:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_FTPDIR:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_GEOLOCATION:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_ICONDATABASE:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_INDEXED_DATABASE:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_INPUT_TYPE_COLOR:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_INSPECTOR:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_JAVASCRIPT_DEBUGGER:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_MEDIA_STATISTICS:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_METER_TAG:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_MICRODATA:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_NOTIFICATIONS:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_NPAPI:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_OFFLINE_DYNAMIC_ENTRIES:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_OFFLINE_WEB_APPLICATIONS:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_PROGRESS_TAG:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_REQUEST_ANIMATION_FRAME:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_RUBY:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_SANDBOX:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_SQL_DATABASE:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_WEB_SOCKETS:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_WEB_TIMING:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_XPATH:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_XSLT:BOOL=ON \
    -DENABLE_TESTS:BOOL=OFF \
    -DENABLE_TESTS_CPPUNIT:BOOL=OFF \
    ..
while now it stops somewhere else and i cant even configure it anymore aven though reinstalled and readjusted the whole source:

Code: [Select]

CMake Error at Tools/OWBLauncher/CMakeLists.txt:65 (target_link_libraries):
  Cannot specify link libraries for target "owb" which is not built by this
  project.
damn ive messed it up again..

[Lurch]

Very interested in how this turns out, browsing is very quick with the 060@80MHz but as has been said the current browsers make a mess of websites :-(

Is there a link to the AROS OWB I can try?

[wawrzon]

you need to run it under aros68k. this means you need to download aros68k nightly and decompress it onto an empty bootable partiotion, and then download the corresponding contributions where owb is in extras/networking/apps/owb

now that the last nightles do not start on 68k due to rebuilding the infrastructure, you may have to use aros vision distro for "classics".
you ll have to check out and remove all unnecessary ttf fonts from the fonts: dir otherwise it will take ages to parse them. i had somewhere an archive with those appropriate but forgot where. then you need to start arostcp (you need a lan card) otherwise the browser will refuse to run. and then you will have to sustain very long start, set the image decoders to datatypes in the browser prefs, disable javascript and then it might go online.

meanwhile ive noticed that olaf puts millions of fonts even into the aros vision classics, i would have to remove them now even to check if owb starts, its been months i ran that last time. i cant be bothered today. sorry.

[chris]

I try to compile Chris's OS4 NetSurf.
I have half of code compiled at this moment.
If somebody knows how to implement some OS4 functions on classic,
post it here:
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=68233

I don't have an account on EAB, however:

COMPILE: amiga/schedule.c
amiga/schedule.c:28:17: pbl.h: No such file or directory

You need to build libpbl - http://www.mission-base.com/peter/source/
I use it because it's a bit nicer/quicker for controlling the list of scheduled events.

Also WINDOW_NewMenu would need to be replaced with (from the top of my head) LayoutMenus and the attach menu function (whose name escapes me at the moment), and the reverse clean-up when the window closes (in gui_window_destroy after DisposeObject(gwin->objects[GID_MAIN])).  WINDOW_NewMenu can then be removed as that's all it does.

int32 -> replace by LONG

uint32 -> replace by ULONG

int16 -> replace by WORD

uint16 -> replace by UWORD

int8 -> replace by BYTE

uint8 -> replace by UBYTE

I'd rather you didn't do that, instead add the necessary typedefs to os3support.h.