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Author Topic: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?  (Read 6258 times)

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Offline persiaTopic starter

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So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« on: January 18, 2013, 01:08:16 PM »
Just a little confused here, when Steve Jobs died there were a ton of criticisms of Steve that even trended towards nasty.  When there was even the slightest criticism of Barry Altman the topic was closed immediately.  Can someone explain the policy of when we are allowed to criticize the dead and when we aren't?  Is it because Steve was a giant in the computer world and Barry wasn't?  I just want the policy stated, rather than having to guess.
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ChuckT

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Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 02:13:58 PM »
We have a longer history with Steve Jobs as a competitor.
It is still taboo to speak ill of the dead with a lot of people.  Most people believe that you give the dead respect and a lot of people don't believe they should be judged.

In the case of Steve, he did some things that were wrong but he did do some things to help people like give away iPods to students trying to help developing countries and he started the process on making slow reforms fixing Foxconn.  He also reconciled with his wife.

For someone who got fired from Apple, he started Next and was successful for a while and was able to land back on his feet again at Apple to help save it.  Could many people do that?  If so, why haven't they?  I think you have to give him credit that his company narrowly survived the computer wars.
 

ChuckT

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Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2013, 02:26:22 PM »
The mission with Apple is different than Commodore USA.  We know there is a dead end with Apple.  Apple only cares about their products and their future unless they have an agreement with other companies.

The mission with Commodore USA is they are carrying on the Commodore name and pseudo-brand.  In some ways, the Amiga community is trying to be optimistic and hope to see if they can one day do something for us.  The bottom line was that I wanted the better grade so I was willing to be nice to get it.

If you make enemies, what will they do for you?  If you try to stay on course but stay respectful, it can't hurt the community.  The old adage says you can attract more flies with honey than vinegar.  I've found in life that you might need people to help you so it is better to stay positive than negative.  I found in my classes that if we were upbeat and positive then the teacher was upbeat and positive towards us but if we were hard to manage, negative or moody, the teacher took it out on us.

In Business, it is important to keep relationships because they want to keep that salesman coming and they want the other company to always sell to us.  Companies get away with murder but we let them because it is about business.  It is about money and less about morals with businesses.

If you want respect in life, you have to give it.  A lot of people see aggression and don't care who is wrong or right but they will hold it against you and they have power.  It is always good to have friends but it doesn't help to have enemies and if you want to live in a better and safer world, you have to have gentleness and respect.  If you don't have gentleness, you won't get respect.
 

Offline gertsy

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Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2013, 11:03:41 PM »
Quote from: persia;723063
Just a little confused here, when Steve Jobs died there were a ton of criticisms of Steve that even trended towards nasty.  When there was even the slightest criticism of Barry Altman the topic was closed immediately.  Can someone explain the policy of when we are allowed to criticize the dead and when we aren't?  Is it because Steve was a giant in the computer world and Barry wasn't?  I just want the policy stated, rather than having to guess.


Barry Altman died?  That's sad. Sorry to hear.
Rest in peace.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 11:05:43 PM by gertsy »
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 12:54:57 AM »
Quote from: persia;723063
Just a little confused here, when Steve Jobs died there were a ton of criticisms of Steve that even trended towards nasty.  When there was even the slightest criticism of Barry Altman the topic was closed immediately.  Can someone explain the policy of when we are allowed to criticize the dead and when we aren't?  Is it because Steve was a giant in the computer world and Barry wasn't?  I just want the policy stated, rather than having to guess.

Hey, I talked to Altman.
He always invited questions and challenges.
Whenever Jobs ever faced an adversarial situation, he usually got hostile.

Stated simply, Jobs was a knob who cherry picked technology from other companies and took credit for a lot of creative work done by other firms.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

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ChuckT

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Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2013, 01:23:56 PM »
What about Bill McEwen in this case?

They hold most of the future to Amiga and they didn't get the same deal as Barry.  What is up with that?  People didn't like Barry but Bill is off limits?  Shouldn't you at least have a dialog?  Maybe if you worked out an agreement where they put Amiga in a trust for all Amiga users and Amiga users worked as the management, you could let them build Amigas for the community?  Wouldn't some agreement like that be fair and constructive?  Let Amiga users be the blind trust for Bill?
 

Offline CritAnime

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Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2013, 12:48:39 AM »
Quote from: Iggy;723633
Stated simply, Jobs was a knob who cherry picked technology from other companies and took credit for a lot of creative work done by other firms.

And Barry didn't? The vic slim, vic mini/amiga mini, amiga mio, pheonix/vic pro were all rebadged machines that he cherry picked and rebranded for himself. The c64x was the only product that he could have claimed as his own but that was just modeled after the original with some minor detail changes.

ChuckT

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Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2013, 03:42:06 AM »
Quote from: CritAnime;724187
And Barry didn't? The vic slim, vic mini/amiga mini, amiga mio, pheonix/vic pro were all rebadged machines that he cherry picked and rebranded for himself. The c64x was the only product that he could have claimed as his own but that was just modeled after the original with some minor detail changes.


According to Wikipedia, the Apple I came out in 1976 and the Commodore Pet came out in 1977.  The Kim 1 did come out in 1976.  So while Apple did have the look of machines that came out previously, Apple didn't come out with the computer after Commodore unless you consider the Kim 1 as a computer which it could be considered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_PET
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_I
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIM-1
 

Offline CritAnime

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Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2013, 04:55:05 AM »
I am not denying that Jobs did stuff like that we know he did but Barry also did the same. Yet for some reason it's now like we can't mention that without been called trolls or in some way upsetting his new found status.
 
I never wished harm on him, thats just rediculous if people did think that judging by some of the stuff I have seen said on Moo. Cancer is a horrible thing and destroys families and should be beaten and wiped off the face of the planet. Yet I don't get this saintly image that people now have for him. Maybe I am missing something.

Offline commodorejohn

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Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2013, 04:59:02 AM »
Quote from: CritAnime;724210
Yet I don't get this saintly image that people now have for him. Maybe I am missing something.
You're not. It doesn't make a lick of sense, we're just apparently obligated to venerate the dead unconditionally, irrespective of anything and everything they said and did in life. After all, he was keeping The Name alive, and that's what matters, right?
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Offline CritAnime

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Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2013, 05:06:14 AM »
I somehow got the impression that by paying my respects, regardless of my views on the products he sold, made me some sort of social nasty. I honestly don't get internet politics at times.

Offline nicholas

Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2013, 10:44:14 PM »
Quote from: iggy;723633
stated simply, jobs was a knob.
 ftfy.
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Offline nicholas

Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2013, 10:46:11 PM »
Quote from: CritAnime;724210
I am not denying that Jobs did stuff like that we know he did but Barry also did the same. Yet for some reason it's now like we can't mention that without been called trolls or in some way upsetting his new found status.
 
I never wished harm on him, thats just rediculous if people did think that judging by some of the stuff I have seen said on Moo. Cancer is a horrible thing and destroys families and should be beaten and wiped off the face of the planet. Yet I don't get this saintly image that people now have for him. Maybe I am missing something.

Ditto.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=724331&postcount=6

Quote
Only four posts commenting on the death of a genius who created amazing  things and contributed so much to the Amiga scene, yet a two bit snake  oil salesman with no discernable talent who contributed nothing  whatsoever to our community gets God knows how many arse kissing  tributes in a thread about his recent death?

You should all hang your heads in shame!
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline tone007

Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2013, 07:38:55 PM »
:)
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Offline Iggy

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Re: So Barry is off-limits but Steve Jobs wasn't?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2013, 05:28:25 PM »
Quote from: ChuckT;724199
According to Wikipedia, the Apple I came out in 1976 and the Commodore Pet came out in 1977.  The Kim 1 did come out in 1976.  So while Apple did have the look of machines that came out previously, Apple didn't come out with the computer after Commodore unless you consider the Kim 1 as a computer which it could be considered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_PET
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_I
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIM-1


The Apple ! was a board you had to assemble, so no Apple was not the first.
If you were using those specs it, Altair or SWTPC would be in the running.

Commodore sold the first ready to use PC, followed by Tandy.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

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Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"