Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...  (Read 7787 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ilwrath

Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #29 from previous page: January 14, 2013, 08:53:22 PM »
Quote
I had always heard that the A1200 is a more stable, compatible machine. That the extra hardware in the A4000 pushes it further afield from the center of compatibility.

Is that not the case?


Now, back in the day, when the machines were new, I'd say the A4000 was by far the more stable of the machines.  I owned an A1200 with expansions and an A4000/040 (later upgraded to 060), and my A4000 spanked my A1200 in so far as stability.  The 4000 was a rock-solid bulldog that could run for days (or weeks) on end without a reboot.  The 1200 might get a couple hours, if you were lucky.

Quote
And how bad _are_ the caps in the A4000? I've got a room full of computers...


Terrible.  The only two Amigas I've had cap problems on were both A4000s.  The 4000's also have the self-destructing SIMM sockets.  (The only broken SIMM sockets I've seen [besides extreme neglect/impact/stupidity cases] have also been on A4000s.  

Oddly enough I've never had the cap problems on my various 1200s, though several, including my current model have been plagued with the vertical flash syndrome.

Personally, I got rid of my big-box Amigas a few years ago, and I can't really say I miss the old hassles.  Priorities change, and I'm happier with my 1200 with an 030 in the stock desktop wedge, nowadays.  (Ironically, it's very similar to what my 1200 started out as back in the day, before I expanded it and sold the lot and bought the 4000.)
 

Offline blakespotTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2003
  • Posts: 880
  • Country: us
  • Thanked: 8 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Visit ByteCellar.com
    • Show only replies by blakespot
    • ByteCellar - The Vintage Computing Blog
Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2013, 03:06:31 AM »
Is a 68060 ECS A2000 more "compatible" with WHDLoad titles than an '030 AGA A1200? God knows I have to crank out the NOAUTOVEC action to run half the stuff I come across.

Thanks.





bp
:: ByteCellar.com - The Vintage Computing Weblog
:: Amigas: 1000, 2000 '020, SAM440ep-Flex
 

Offline Damion

Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2013, 05:09:02 AM »
Quote from: blakespot;722588
Is a 68060 ECS A2000 more "compatible" with WHDLoad titles than an '030 AGA A1200?


No, the '030 A1200 would be about ideal for WHDLoad, with the exception of 1 or 2 accelerator cards that cause problems. (Blizzards are all good, my GVP is fine, too.) The '060 cards are usually OK - that said, I would sometimes have niggling access faults in certain games that wouldn't pop up until several minutes in... seriously annoying. Overall though I had few issues with the '060 cards, but the 1200/030 combo can bring WHDLoad perfection.
 
Quote
God knows I have to crank out the NOAUTOVEC action to run half the stuff I come across.

Thanks.

Odd, don't think this should be the case with the Blizz 2060. Do you have networking up while running games? Any other cards in the system? There was also a version of the phase5 processor library that caused problems with WHDLoad, might want to try another, or even better the mmulib library.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 05:11:06 AM by Damion »
 

Offline blakespotTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2003
  • Posts: 880
  • Country: us
  • Thanked: 8 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Visit ByteCellar.com
    • Show only replies by blakespot
    • ByteCellar - The Vintage Computing Blog
Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2013, 02:28:45 AM »
Quote from: Damion;722602
There was also a version of the phase5 processor library that caused problems with WHDLoad, might want to try another, or even better the mmulib library.


The which??



bp
:: ByteCellar.com - The Vintage Computing Weblog
:: Amigas: 1000, 2000 '020, SAM440ep-Flex
 

Offline Damion

Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2013, 06:15:57 AM »
Quote from: blakespot;722855
The which??



bp

LOL, sorry :P

The "noautovec" tooltype shouldn't really be a necessity, at least I don't recall this issue when I had my my B2060 running. This might mean you have another piece of hardware in the system causing WHDLoad to bomb, or maybe a network interface online (always have them offline before launching games).

Latest version of the phase5 cpu libraries here. It's worth a check that your 68060.library is the last released, since one or more of the earlier ones causes problems with WHDLoad.

The mmulib package can be found here, and includes its own replacement processor libraries. These are the best ones (IMHO) and worth a try, but AFAIK, the latest phase5 library should work fine with WHDLoad.

Anyhow, didn't mean to drag things too far OT - your 2060 should be great for WHDLoad without requiring extra tooltypes, and nearly as good as a 1200/'030 (minus lack of AGA compatibility, obviously).
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 06:32:35 AM by Damion »
 

Offline blakespotTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2003
  • Posts: 880
  • Country: us
  • Thanked: 8 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Visit ByteCellar.com
    • Show only replies by blakespot
    • ByteCellar - The Vintage Computing Blog
Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2013, 03:54:54 PM »
Quote from: Damion;722877
LOL, sorry :P

The "noautovec" tooltype shouldn't really be a necessity, at least I don't recall this issue when I had my my B2060 running. This might mean you have another piece of hardware in the system causing WHDLoad to bomb, or maybe a network interface online (always have them offline before launching games).

Latest version of the phase5 cpu libraries here. It's worth a check that your 68060.library is the last released, since one or more of the earlier ones causes problems with WHDLoad.

The mmulib package can be found here, and includes its own replacement processor libraries. These are the best ones (IMHO) and worth a try, but AFAIK, the latest phase5 library should work fine with WHDLoad.

Anyhow, didn't mean to drag things too far OT - your 2060 should be great for WHDLoad without requiring extra tooltypes, and nearly as good as a 1200/'030 (minus lack of AGA compatibility, obviously).


Reading up on MMUlib now. Had never heard of it. I had just installed the libs on a floppy that came with this accelerator. The link you give for MMUlib takes me to Phase 5 software where I do see their libraries, but not MMUlib specifically.

Where can I get it? And it is an alternative and preferable to Phase 5's 68060.library?

Thanks.




bp
:: ByteCellar.com - The Vintage Computing Weblog
:: Amigas: 1000, 2000 '020, SAM440ep-Flex
 

Offline blakespotTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2003
  • Posts: 880
  • Country: us
  • Thanked: 8 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Visit ByteCellar.com
    • Show only replies by blakespot
    • ByteCellar - The Vintage Computing Blog
Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2013, 03:56:27 PM »
Quote from: Damion;722877
...This might mean you have another piece of hardware in the system causing WHDLoad to bomb, or maybe a network interface online (always have them offline before launching games).


Also, I do have an X-Surf card and use it under 3.1 with AmiTCP. I am sure to have "stop net"ed before running games.



bp
:: ByteCellar.com - The Vintage Computing Weblog
:: Amigas: 1000, 2000 '020, SAM440ep-Flex
 

Offline zipper

Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2013, 05:09:09 PM »
Quote from: blakespot;722926
Reading up on MMUlib now. Had never heard of it. I had just installed the libs on a floppy that came with this accelerator. The link you give for MMUlib takes me to Phase 5 software where I do see their libraries, but not MMUlib specifically.

Where can I get it? And it is an alternative and preferable to Phase 5's 68060.library?

Aminet. Alternative, in some cases it may be better - never tried yet.
 

Offline Damion

Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2013, 06:52:16 PM »
oops!

http://aminet.net/package/util/libs/MMULib


Quote
I had just installed the libs on a floppy that came with this accelerator.


OK, you might be running an outdated library - try the last one from phase5 and see how it goes.
 

Offline blakespotTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2003
  • Posts: 880
  • Country: us
  • Thanked: 8 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Visit ByteCellar.com
    • Show only replies by blakespot
    • ByteCellar - The Vintage Computing Blog
Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2013, 02:51:02 AM »
I grabbed the new P5 68060.library set.

I still get NMI auto vec crashes on basically every demo I run. :-(



bp
:: ByteCellar.com - The Vintage Computing Weblog
:: Amigas: 1000, 2000 '020, SAM440ep-Flex
 

Offline Damion

Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2013, 05:30:51 AM »
Quote from: blakespot;723023
I grabbed the new P5 68060.library set.

I still get NMI auto vec crashes on basically every demo I run. :-(



bp



Bummer! I'll try finding some time over the weekend to get mine fired up, and see if I encounter the same problem. What demos should I try?

That aside, the only other suggestion I can think of would be to pop out the x-surf and try again. I also wouldn't hesitate to start a thread over at the eab - the WHDLoad developers are really friendly and active over there.
 

Offline blakespotTopic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2003
  • Posts: 880
  • Country: us
  • Thanked: 8 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Visit ByteCellar.com
    • Show only replies by blakespot
    • ByteCellar - The Vintage Computing Blog
Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2013, 10:48:25 PM »
So I installed the new 68060, 68040 libraries mentioned a few posts up, yet Showconfig tells me I have a 68040 in the system. I have a Phase 5 Blizzard '060 board in this A2000.

SS loads the standard Setpatch with OS 3.1.

This may be my problem with crashes in WHDLoad, right?

Should Showconfig report 68060? I read on EAB that it should... Thanks.



bp
:: ByteCellar.com - The Vintage Computing Weblog
:: Amigas: 1000, 2000 '020, SAM440ep-Flex
 

Offline Ral-Clan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2006
  • Posts: 1979
  • Country: ca
    • Show only replies by Ral-Clan
    • http://www3.sympatico.ca/clarke-santin/
Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2013, 12:40:32 AM »
Quote from: blakespot;722043
What do you think of my plan?

I am going through the exact same experience as you.  I've been an Amiga user since 1987 when I bought an A500. In 1996 I got an A2000, and between then 'til 2008 I expanded that machine with lots of bits and bobs trying to make it a super powerful Amiga (Picasso II, Repulse audio, 68040, Kickflash card, SupraRAM, Megachip, Flickerfixer, etc.). The thing was literally crammed (no more free expansion slots, and with ribbon cables going everywhere).

I was trying to keep up and be able to do modern desktop publishing, graphics and audio work with that machine...and for a while I succeeded, but it was very expensive and relied on hardware that couldn't easily be replaced.

Then, cheap PCs started to surpass what I could do even with that Amiga. There was little way for me to keep up - I could desktop publish and do advanced graphics and sound editing, but the wait times for thing results to render were extremely long in comparison with what a cheap PC could do.  

Meanwhile, the A2000 with all these bits and bobs hanging on, had become a bit touchy. It seemed I was always popping the hood open to get one bit of hardware to play nicely with another third party add on.  I babied that machine though and kept it clean and well fed, it served me well, but sometimes I had to say a little prayer every time I turned it on that the hard drive would spin up or a certain card would be recognized.

I eventually realized (after yet another component broke and would have been very hard to replace) that I was not really using an Amiga at all. YES, there was an Amiga BURIED somewhere in there, but everything was retargeted from the original Commodore hardware; all the graphics were RTG'd to a third party graphics card, sound was AHI'd to a third party audio card, and the CPU load was handled by a third party 68040 board. The Amiga motherboard was doing very little other than supplying power to the third party hardware hanging off of it. The actual hardware Commodore had designed and that had shipped with the A2000 on they day it rolled off the factory floor was barely being used. So, then, mightn't I just as well be using a SAM or WinUAE or a MacMini running MorphOS? The A2000 had simply become a box to feed electricity to all the non-Commodore components that were doing the real work.

I decided I would stop trying to make my classic Amigas compete with a modern PC or MAC and instead get back to basics - when using my classics, I would appreciate them for what the are, and not try to "pimp them out" into something they are not.

I sold my big box Amigas and their add-ons, and am going back to a basic Amiga 500 with a simple hard-drive sidecar and some extended RAM. I'm going to use software that doesn't need more than the custom chips and the basic 68000.  Deluxe Paint, PhotonPaint, DigiView, Music trackers, original games. Give those custom chips a workout.

I've seen artists and musicians doing stuff on very basic Amigas lately that I'm really impressed by. It's like the whole synthesizer thing - in the 1980s we struggled to make realistic instrument sounds on our analogue synths. Many, like me, wanted to sell our old "obsolete" analogue synths because we wanted the new crop of digital synths that could actually mimic real acoustic instruments like oboes, clarinets, guitars, trumpets, saxes, etc. At that time some people laughed at my early 80s Roland Juno-106 because it was so "outdated" - and I started to believe them.  Knobs and sliders were passé and everything was menu driven and membrane keyboard interfaces ruled.  Sounds were crisp and sterile.

Then a decade later, we learned to appreciate the earlier analogue technology for what it was - and analogue synths then became sought after and desired for the unique sounds only they could make. Suddenly, everyone wanted real knobs and push-buttons on synths again. Synths like the Juno are now legendary and no one buys one to try and re-create a real acoustic instrument. They WANT that "fake" synth sound we had rejected.

I think Amigas are starting to be appreciated in this way. The old classics are not being compared to the latest cutting edge computers anymore - they are being appreciated on their own merits.

Like you, I also am attracted to the idea of a "clean" basic Amiga like you mentioned in your original post - hence I'm going back to a "wedge" Amiga like I originally had in the 1980s. The wedge also looks so unique!

I haven't abandoned the Amiga for productivity work. I use it more than ever (graphics, desktop publishing, 3d rendering, Bars & Pipes, audio editing). A few years ago I very reluctantly bought a PC and a copy of Amiga Forever.  I never thought it would match my decked-out A2000. I delved into WinUAE, becoming what I would say is an "advanced user" and set up a virtual copy of the desktop that had once been on my A2000. It just FLEW! In AIBB tests it rated obscenely faster than my former real 68040 - even much faster than a 68060 - and this was on a (not cutting edge) PC that cost only a few hundred dollars from a refurbished computer dealer.

I was finally able to get more work done with this virtual "Amiga" than I had ever been able to do before. I was editing massive images in ImageFX and rendering in Aladdin4d stuff in seconds instead of minutes or hours.  It's an RTG, 16-bit AHI setup without all the hard to find 20 year old cards. And if anything breaks, like the hard drive or the RAM or whatever, I can (finally) just pop down to any corner computer store and buy replacements for dirt cheap - or just replace the whole computer for almost nothing as people are giving away slightly older PCs all the time. I call it a "virtual Amiga" but really, it feels very Amiga to me.

I guess this is the same experience you had on your SAM - it was hard to go back to the expanded big box Amigas once you had tasted the speed of AmigaOS on modern hardware.

And for when I get nostalgic and want to use a REAL hardware Amiga, actually touch an original keyboard, hear the disk drive grind, see the interlace flicker and feel the angular mouse, I have that A500 with sidecar...and I know when I use THAT I'm actually seeing Denise, Paula and Agnes flex their muscles along with good old 68000. No RTG, AHI or third party CPU cards. WinUAE is my Amiga for "working" and the A500 is my Amiga for "fun" - and it's going to be damn fun I think!

I guess what I'm saying is a bit contradictory - When I want a nostalgic Amiga buzz I'll go back to a classic machine running on the native hardware, and when I need to do productivity work I'm happy to see AmigaOS run on the fastest possible, modern hardware (WinUAE, AROS, SAM, AmigaONE X1000, MorphOS, etc).  I guess I'm what I'm trying to say is "appreciate the classics for what they are, leave the future to the next-generation machines".
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 01:53:47 PM by ral-clan »
Music I've made using Amigas and other retro-instruments: http://theovoids.bandcamp.com
 

Offline zipper

Re: Amiga setup "woes," possible change-up ahead...
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2013, 08:35:17 AM »
Quote from: blakespot;725367
Should Showconfig report 68060? I read on EAB that it should... Thanks.

Not on 3.1 - 3.1 was written before 060 came out.