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Author Topic: AmigaOne is out of my budget league  (Read 14298 times)

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Offline Ral-Clan

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Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2012, 02:15:00 PM »
I heard that Trevor is actually absorbing he some of the cost of each AmigaOne X1000 just because he wants the computer to be a reality - so it's a subsidy for the user at Trevor's expense.  Not to say it's not an expensive computer, but the expense if probaby justified with the amount of R&D and the small numbers they can potentially sell at any price point.

I coudn't ever justify a computer that expensive, but it's not fair to think that Aeon is gouging the customer.

Trevor said something about using some different components in the next version that will reduce the cost.
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Offline okejokej

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Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2012, 02:49:24 PM »
Quote from: ral-clan;717602
I coudn't ever justify a computer that expensive, but it's not fair to think that Aeon is gouging the customer.

I believe that's never been the case except for maybe few troll extremists. It's perfectly understandable that production of hardware in such small amounts means huge costs per unit. And there's also CPU choice that ended up being not very lucky.
Though obviously it doesn't in any way change the fact that you get ridiculously overpriced hardware compared to other computing choices(power & software/price), so except hardcore Amiga hobbists noone will go for it :crazy:

Quote
Trevor said something about using some different components in the next version that will reduce the cost.
I don't think it'd be much(enough to not make it ridiculously overpriced) cheaper even with that, but only time will tell :sealed:
 

Offline AmigaClassicRuleTopic starter

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Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2012, 03:22:31 PM »
Quote from: okejokej;717604
I believe that's never been the case except for maybe few troll extremists. It's perfectly understandable that production of hardware in such small amounts means huge costs per unit. And there's also CPU choice that ended up being not very lucky.
Though obviously it doesn't in any way change the fact that you get ridiculously overpriced hardware compared to other computing choices(power & software/price), so except hardcore Amiga hobbists noone will go for it :crazy:


I don't think it'd be much(enough to not make it ridiculously overpriced) cheaper even with that, but only time will tell :sealed:


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Offline okejokej

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Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2012, 03:39:22 PM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;717606
This is what I have in the future for collectable reason: https://acube-systemsbiz.serversicuro.it/shop/en/80-sam.html
Looks pretty cool :pint:. What brand of ATX PSU does it have inside(if you know)? It instantly made me wonder why does it have a 500W one if it'd be perfectly satisfied with a good quality power box delivering half or even less of that.
So seeing the 500W just for sake of numbers makes me suspicious :razz:

Edit: I wrote "half or less"? Damn, I meant tenth or less. It's just horribly inefficient that way =/
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 03:59:03 PM by okejokej »
 

Offline KimmoK

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Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2012, 06:03:50 PM »
IIRC, also C=USA is selling some "Amiga" for about 3000USD.
But that is a 400USD x86 PC that is branded and sold for hefty price tag.

x1000 is expensive but it at least is slightly different than the standard and runs PPC OSs.

(also for me x1000 is too pricey... time will tell if I one day upgrade to SAM460. For A-Eon next mid range product it would seem they plan to use quadcore e500mc based chip @ 1.5Ghz while also considering 2+Ghz e5500 based options (x1000 successor) but no new mortherboard during next year from A-Eon is  the official info (kind of).)
- KimmoK
// Windows will never catch us now.
// The multicolor AmigaFUTURE IS NOW !! :crazy:
 

Offline Tripitaka

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Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2012, 06:23:30 PM »
Quote from: itix;717598
And your £1800 486 does?


Perhaps you should re-read my posts as I have no idea whatsoever as to the reason why you would ask me such a question. But, I'll still answer it anyway.

No, of course not, Sam's and X1000's do that.

In the days of the £1800 486 I bought an Amiga 1200 (I still have the very same A1200 now) and my 486 is long gone. My whole point in the first place was yes, it is very expensive, however, years ago I was willing to pay that sort of cash for a 486 because it did something I desired. Nowadays the X1000 costs £1800 to do something I desire. What's the difference? The fact that now I can buy a cheap PC is irrelevant, they can't run OS4. So to sum up:

Past: 486 runs DOOM and costs £1800, A1200 costs £300 and does not: I bought both because I had the cash.

Now: X1000 runs OS4 and costs £1800, PC costs £300 and does not: I got the PC because I don't have the cash but when I do I'll gladly buy an X1000 too (in the meantime I've still got 5 classic Amigas to play with anyway).
Falling into a dark and red rage.
 

Offline zylesea

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Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2012, 06:58:36 PM »
Well, I don't have a prob with that price of the X1000 since there are alternatives available.  My 250 EUR laptop from ebay may lack a certain name but is about as fast as the X1000. Why bother with that X1000 then?

Offline lassie

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Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2012, 07:21:35 PM »
Quote from: Tripitaka;717626
Perhaps you should re-read my posts as I have no idea whatsoever as to the reason why you would ask me such a question. But, I'll still answer it anyway.

No, of course not, Sam's and X1000's do that.

In the days of the £1800 486 I bought an Amiga 1200 (I still have the very same A1200 now) and my 486 is long gone. My whole point in the first place was yes, it is very expensive, however, years ago I was willing to pay that sort of cash for a 486 because it did something I desired. Nowadays the X1000 costs £1800 to do something I desire. What's the difference? The fact that now I can buy a cheap PC is irrelevant, they can't run OS4. So to sum up:

Past: 486 runs DOOM and costs £1800, A1200 costs £300 and does not: I bought both because I had the cash.

Now: X1000 runs OS4 and costs £1800, PC costs £300 and does not: I got the PC because I don't have the cash but when I do I'll gladly buy an X1000 too (in the meantime I've still got 5 classic Amigas to play with anyway).


What 5 classic Amiga do you have :)
Amiga 4000 030 18 MB ram. 16 Gb HD.
Amiga 1200 030 34 MB ram. 8 Gb HD.
Amiga 1200 Tower Apollo 1240
Amiga 2000 030. 9 MB ram. 1 Gb HD.
Amiga 2000 68000 5 MB ram. 500 MB HD.
Amiga 2000 68000 9 MB ram. 1 Gb HD.
Amiga 600 4 MB ram. 4 GB HD.
Amiga 600 1 MB ram. 60 MB HD.
Amiga 500 1 MB ram.
Amiga 500 Plus
Amiga CD32
Amiga CD32
Commodore 64
Commodore 64C
Commodore 128
Commodore 128D
 

Offline persia

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Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2012, 07:38:08 PM »
For 1800 quid you could buy at least 3 lenovo i7 laptops....

That's a total of 12 processors in three machines.  Course the X1000 does have two, one of whichyou can actually use....
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 08:13:00 PM by persia »
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Offline danbeaver

Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2012, 07:44:24 PM »
Well, I can't yet afford one (x1000) but I want one; once I got deep into OS 4.1 on my Classic I really wanted to see what a new machine would do with it.

[As follow up on price, if someone wanted to buy one of my two A4000T's then it would cost them far more than the cost of an x1000]
 

Offline lionstorm

Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2012, 08:21:30 PM »
@ ACR : no one forces you to buy it ! if you can not afford, just buy a noname pc and be happy with it (but of course, it will not run AOS4).
 

Offline lassie

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Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2012, 08:29:38 PM »
Quote from: danbeaver;717640
Well, I can't yet afford one (x1000) but I want one; once I got deep into OS 4.1 on my Classic I really wanted to see what a new machine would do with it.

[As follow up on price, if someone wanted to buy one of my two A4000T's then it would cost them far more than the cost of an x1000]


What does an Amiga 4000T cost?? I have seen 3000T to around 1000 dollars with 040 CPU and Hard disk etc.
Amiga 4000 030 18 MB ram. 16 Gb HD.
Amiga 1200 030 34 MB ram. 8 Gb HD.
Amiga 1200 Tower Apollo 1240
Amiga 2000 030. 9 MB ram. 1 Gb HD.
Amiga 2000 68000 5 MB ram. 500 MB HD.
Amiga 2000 68000 9 MB ram. 1 Gb HD.
Amiga 600 4 MB ram. 4 GB HD.
Amiga 600 1 MB ram. 60 MB HD.
Amiga 500 1 MB ram.
Amiga 500 Plus
Amiga CD32
Amiga CD32
Commodore 64
Commodore 64C
Commodore 128
Commodore 128D
 

Offline swift240

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Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2012, 09:02:14 PM »
I hyave always said this about the Amiga, what it comes to an Amiga the price is realy sky high, when it comes to a PC the price is reasly afordable to every one.

Is it the case of well if they want it they will bloody well pay for it?
Or a case of ohhhhh well you see, we have to do this and then we gota do that, then we gota do the other thing then we gota................. so the price will by HIGH like it or not.

Why not a affordable CPU that will not cost the earth that will handle an Amiga OS?

Or will this be another excuse ohhh well we cant do that.

Sorry I dont belive a word of it, there is enough technology out there to do that.

And the price dont need to be sky high either.  But its the same old thing if its Amiga then the price will be lovely and high if its a PC then it wont.

To hell with this I am runnig in circles here, its cheaper to use my AMD and Amikit.

But I wont get rid of my Amiga 1200 no matter what, so its either AMD and Amikit or pay a price thats so high I will need a jet plane to get to the top of it.

I feel better now I had a moan I aint had for for ages.

Mike.
Amiga 1200, 82gb HD, 4 way IDE\'97, DVD Multi-Recorder, OS3.9, BB1,BB2, Apollo Turbo MkII 030/40, 32meg Fastram, 4Gb CF card PCMCIA slot, IDE CF card adaptor 4Gb CF card, HP 810C, Alba HDTV, Converted PC PSU. C128, C64, C16, Plus4, 1701, 1570, 1541MkII, ARP6.0,KCS Power Cart, FreezeFrame MK3B, Freeze Machine, Simons Basic,  PSP, PS1, PS2, PS3 HDMI and 1TB HD+ 80gb USB HD, PS3 TV add on, Sound Surround speakers for PS2,PS3,PC, and Amiga Amazing so
 

Offline kickstart

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Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2012, 09:05:51 PM »
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;717537
AmigaOne X1000 is sold for 1,846.78 GBP or 2,269.62 EUR in AmigaKit. Isn't this a little bit too high for a computer?

Does this apply again to the very little market toward it kinda thing? I mean it cost $2973.05 US. With that price I can get the top of a line latest up to date gaming laptop!!



Dont worry, is underpowered.
a1200 060
 

Offline Tripitaka

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Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2012, 09:34:47 PM »
Quote from: zylesea;717630
Well, I don't have a prob with that price of the X1000 since there are alternatives available.  My 250 EUR laptop from ebay may lack a certain name but is about as fast as the X1000. Why bother with that X1000 then?


Does your laptop run OS4? Of course it doesn't.
Falling into a dark and red rage.
 

Offline spirantho

Re: AmigaOne is out of my budget league
« Reply #44 from previous page: December 05, 2012, 09:39:24 PM »
@swift240

Quote from: swift240;717663
I have always said this about the Amiga, what it comes to an Amiga the price is realy sky high, when it comes to a PC the price is reasly afordable to every one.


It would be, though, wouldn't it? Millions of people buy PCs, hundreds (at best) buy Amigas - not because they're more expensive, but because there's no software for it.
Basic economies of scale: PCs = high production run = low unit cost; Amigas = low production run (owing to low demand) = high unit cost.

Quote

Is it the case of well if they want it they will bloody well pay for it?
Or a case of ohhhhh well you see, we have to do this and then we gota do that, then we gota do the other thing then we gota................. so the price will by HIGH like it or not.


Do you really think the makers of low-volume hardware want the computer to be this expensive?

Quote

Why not a affordable CPU that will not cost the earth that will handle an Amiga OS?


There already is one - the Sam 440ep. The X1000 isn't designed for this, it's designed to be the fastest computer possible at that time for people with enough cash. It's not for people who want "affordable" it's for people who want "the fastest for AmigaOS", and that meant at the time the PA6T. It's the same anywhere else - on a PC if you want the fastest you pay through the nose for it. Same on Mac. Same on everything.

Quote

Or will this be another excuse ohhh well we cant do that.


It's not an excuse. It's simply that the Amiga market is very small, and there's not much money in it. We're lucky that there's anybody at all doing anything with it.

Quote

Sorry I dont belive a word of it, there is enough technology out there to do that.


But not the right technology. Sure you can get cheap x86 CPUs but not cheap PPC CPUs (and that's an argument for another thread :) )

Quote

And the price dont need to be sky high either.  But its the same old thing if its Amiga then the price will be lovely and high if its a PC then it wont.


Yes, the price does need to be high - at least if you don't want it to be a PC.

The Amiga is a niche market. It doesn't run 99.99% of software that people want to run, therefore most people don't want it. Demand is comparatively very low, therefore production runs also have to be very low.
If you're going to sell 10 million units in the first month like an Xbox or something, you can afford to produce 10 million components, but if you're only going to sell 50, you can only produce 50. That raises the unit cost for each part massively.

Quote

To hell with this I am runnig in circles here, its cheaper to use my AMD and Amikit.


I agree with that! Using commodity (i.e. PC) hardware will naturally be much cheaper because the market is so much bigger.

Quote

But I wont get rid of my Amiga 1200 no matter what, so its either AMD and Amikit or pay a price thats so high I will need a jet plane to get to the top of it.


You're right about the A1200. :) If you don't want to buy an AOS 4 machine then no-one's forcing you to.

The way you wrote your post you make it sound like the people making OS4 machines are choosing to make it expensive? Yet it's well documented that in the case of the X1000, Trevor is actually subsidising the production!

Low volume hardware will always be much much more expensive than high volume commodity hardware, that's just the way of the world.

High prices are the sacrifice you make for being in a hobby that involves low production volumes - this isn't just for Amigas, it's for any hobby which involves low volume production runs.

The alternative is to do it the CUSA way - just take a cheap PC and stick an "Amiga" sticker on it and call it an Amiga.... but I'd much rather pay more and get something that is designed for and runs AmigaOS.
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